Update: Northern Class 144

[FromA2Bbytrain]

Northern has announced that 5 x 2 class 144 will go off lease on the 15/9/18

As these units will still have 15 months left before the new EU laws cone into effort on 1st Jan 2020 I'm sure these units can be cascaded to branch lines such as Wrex-Bid line.

SOURCE: RICHARD CLINNICK - RAIL MAGAZINE

 

[PHILIPE]

Northern has announced that 5 x 2 class 144 will go off lease on the 15/9/18

As these units will still have 15 months left before the new EU laws cone into effort on 1st Jan 2020 I'm sure these units can be cascaded to branch lines such as Wrex-Bid line.

SOURCE: RICHARD CLINNICK - RAIL MAGAZINE

Wrexham to Bidston is a different operator and they would hardly maintain such a small fleet although may be a credible suggestion regarded their use. Where would they be maintained anyway ?

 

[TEW]

You'd have thought it would be more likely they would augment the Class 142/143 fleets around Cardiff at they were to transfer to the Wales & Borders Franchise.

 

[northwichcat]

Isn't anything new as that date is mentioned in the franchise agreement. There is also a caveat in the franchise agreement saying any of the 144s can remain until 31st December 2019 if there are delays in getting replacement stock in to passenger service.

 

[gareth950]

Northern has announced that 5 x 2 class 144 will go off lease on the 15/9/18

As these units will still have 15 months left before the new EU laws cone into effort on 1st Jan 2020 I'm sure these units can be cascaded to branch lines such as Wrex-Bid line.

SOURCE: RICHARD CLINNICK - RAIL MAGAZINE

As I'm sure has been mentioned many times before, the PRM-TSI-DDA modification laws for 2020 are NOT EU laws and the UK govt could cancel it altogether if they wanted to, regardless of Brexit.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

It wouldn't surprise me if one of the initial 5 to go off-lease includes the "114e" unit (144012): partly because it is non-standard but also because Porterbrook may wish to let ATW try it out in the hope of getting the rest of the Alexander Pacers work beyond 2019.

 

[northwichcat]

It wouldn't surprise me if one of the initial 5 to go off-lease includes the "114e" unit (144012): partly because it is non-standard but also because Porterbrook may wish to let ATW try it out in the hope of getting the rest of the Alexander Pacers work beyond 2019.

It will be the 2 car ones which get returned first. As there are requirements for a minimum number of seats on peak services Northern may also think it makes sense to return the lower capacity unit early on, unless it's a lot more reliable than the other 144s.

By the way I don't think any of these have been made accessible: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipe...minster.JPG/1280px-56006_at_Kidderminster.JPG

 

[superkev]

I'm surprised the 144's are going before the rust afflicted 142's or even the similarly constructed inferior knees under you chin 153/5 s.
K

 

[northwichcat]

I'm surprised the 144's are going before the rust afflicted 142's or even the similarly constructed inferior knees under you chin 153/5 s.
K

I imagine it's down to the 144s only being a small fleet and some of the brand new 195s being for the Leeds area, where the 144s are concentrated. Moving 144s north or across the Pennines would mean additional crews would have to learn to sign them.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I'm surprised the 144's are going before the rust afflicted 142's or even the similarly constructed inferior knees under you chin 153/5 s.
K

In addition to other reasons, the existence of the e144 does mean there's a chance that some of them may have a future beyond 2019, so it's probably in Porterbrook's interest to have chance to secure a lease for them with ATW. The 155s aren't going off-lease so are not part of the discussion.

 

[xotGD]

From a passenger perspective, getting rid of 142s with the awful 3+2 seats or original bus seats ought to be the priority, rather than ditching 144s with more comfortable seating.

On a side note, when the 142s do go, will those in the north east be replaced with 150s, or will the region just have 158/156 stock?

I'm not expecting anything other than 100% 150s on the Pontefract Line.

 

[YorkshireBear]

From a passenger perspective, getting rid of 142s with the awful 3+2 seats or original bus seats ought to be the priority, rather than ditching 144s with more comfortable seating.

On a side note, when the 142s do go, will those in the north east be replaced with 150s, or will the region just have 158/156 stock?

I'm not expecting anything other than 100% 150s on the Pontefract Line.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, personally find the 144 seating the worst on the network.

 

[ashworth]

From a passenger perspective, getting rid of 142s with the awful 3+2 seats or original bus seats ought to be the priority, rather than ditching 144s with more comfortable seating.

A few Saturdays ago I travelled from Manchester to Sheffield on the local Hope Valley service, suffering one of those uncomfortable 142s with original bus seats. It was also freezing cold and damp with condensation on all the windows. Changing at Sheffield on to a 144 for the shorter journey to Worksop seemed like luxury with comfortable seats and heat!

 

[Great_Western]

I would be amazed if they dont go straight to W&B for the valley lines. I presume it wouldnt take much to reclassify them as 143's for continuity either?

 

[northwichcat]

I would be amazed if they dont go straight to W&B for the valley lines. I presume it wouldnt take much to reclassify them as 143's for continuity either?

144s were developed using BR using the Alexander bus shell. 143s were developed by Hunslet Barclay using the Alexander bus shell. Two different trains even though they look almost the same, so they must have different class numbers.

 

[yorksrob]

It's astonishing that Northern feels in a position to hand back 144's when their passengers have to endure Merseyrail 142's.

We could do with a "meet the manager" session to discuss.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

It's astonishing that Northern feels in a position to hand back 144's when their passengers have to endure Merseyrail 142's.

We could do with a "meet the manager" session to discuss.

It might not be down to Northern. Could be Porterbrook making the decision, they own the units.

Of the Pacers, the "least-worst" are in my opinion the Northern Spirit refurbished 142s.

 

[Starmill]

I don't think this is astonishing at all. Hopefully the 142s will all be withdrawn for scrap, but as the other pacers are likely to be required in South Wales they'll need to be transferred and possibly worked on.

 

[northwichcat]

It might not be down to Northern. Could be Porterbrook making the decision, they own the units.

The original post is misleading. Northern have leased all the Pacers and 153s until 31st December 2019 but have the option to return some units early, provided new and cascaded replacement DMUs are in passenger service. Therefore, if the 195s or Scotrail DMUs don't arrive on time Porterbrook can't demand that they get their 144s back in 2018 because the Wales & Borders franchise wants them.

 

[47802]

It's astonishing that Northern feels in a position to hand back 144's when their passengers have to endure Merseyrail 142's.

We could do with a "meet the manager" session to discuss.

Why 48 142's are due to be binned only a few months after the date stated for the 144's and the bulk of 142's released by March 19 hardly worth getting excited about for a few months and presumably has more to do with depot allocations for new and cascaded DMU's.

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

It's astonishing that Northern feels in a position to hand back 144's when their passengers have to endure Merseyrail 142's.

We could do with a "meet the manager" session to discuss.

Maybe because seating capacity is quite important. A 2-car 144 seats just 87 (+ 6 tip-ups) whereas a 142 seats anywhere between 96 (low density ex-ATN sets) to 122 (original bus seated units). You may be happy to have a slightly comfier seat while others have to stand but most peak-hour passengers do actually prefer to sit down even if that means the middle of a 3-seat bench. And I've worked enough such trains to know this to be true.

 

[yorksrob]

I don't think this is astonishing at all. Hopefully the 142s will all be withdrawn for scrap, but as the other pacers are likely to be required in South Wales they'll need to be transferred and possibly worked on.

You're probably right. I've developed a fondness for 144's but none such for Merseyeail pacers.

 

[yorksrob]

Maybe because seating capacity is quite important. A 2-car 144 seats just 87 (+ 6 tip-ups) whereas a 142 seats anywhere between 96 (low density ex-ATN sets) to 122 (original bus seated units). You may be happy to have a slightly comfier seat while others have to stand but most peak-hour passengers do actually prefer to sit down even if that means the middle of a 3-seat bench. And I've worked enough such trains to know this to be true.

I'm not convinced. 3+2 facing seating is ok as people can always access and egress the middle seat, but with airline seating you might as well have 2+2 and more standees as people won't manoeuvre themselves into the middle seat.

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

I'm not convinced. 3+2 facing seating is ok as people can always access and egress the middle seat, but with airline seating you might as well have 2+2 and more standees as people won't manoeuvre themselves into the middle seat.

I won't pretend that 3+2 seating is desirable but where fitted, certainly in my experience, those middle seats most definitely do get used whether in facing or airline configuration. It only takes a little civility to enable this.

 

[xotGD]

I won't pretend that 3+2 seating is desirable but where fitted, certainly in my experience, those middle seats most definitely do get used whether in facing or airline configuration. It only takes a little civility to enable this.

The middle seats get used for 20 minutes twice a day when the train is rammed. The rest of the time there are plenty of spare seats and everyone has to sit in seats too narrow to be comfortable.

 

[northwichcat]

The middle seats get used for 20 minutes twice a day when the train is rammed. The rest of the time there are plenty of spare seats and everyone has to sit in seats too narrow to be comfortable.

You must use of the quietest services Northern operate then. On many routes trains are very busy for most of the morning and then again from around 3.30pm until 7pm or later on weekdays and pretty much all day at the weekend.

 

[yorksrob]

Of the Pacers, the "least-worst" are in my opinion the Northern Spirit refurbished 142s.

They're the best of the 142's I think.

 

[xotGD]

You must use of the quietest services Northern operate then. On many routes trains are very busy for most of the morning and then again from around 3.30pm until 7pm or later on weekdays and pretty much all day at the weekend.

I agree that routes have an extended rush hour, but looking at individual sets, many will only have one period of crush load morning and another in the evening. Certainly that is the case with the diagrams of the units I use in and out of Leeds.

 

[bramling]

I agree that routes have an extended rush hour, but looking at individual sets, many will only have one period of crush load morning and another in the evening. Certainly that is the case with the diagrams of the units I use in and out of Leeds.

Try something like any train heading to the MetroCentre on a half term week or around Christmas time. People standing from Haydon Bridge onwards.

 

[northwichcat]

I agree that routes have an extended rush hour, but looking at individual sets, many will only have one period of crush load morning and another in the evening. Certainly that is the case with the diagrams of the units I use in and out of Leeds.

On the Mid-Cheshire line it's quite often two and that's despite it being a longer route than most commuter routes Northern operate e.g. 15:17 Manchester to Chester both picks up a new of school/college pupils, while the return working 16:59 Chester to Manchester picks up a 3 figure number of commuters who work for Barclays at Radbrooke Hall. The 16:17 also picks up school/college traffic, as well as commuters with earlier finishes, while return 17:59 also carries a lot of commuters, including a lot more Barclays workers who have later starting and finishing times.

Even in your area I've been on a 144 with more passengers than seats on the Harrogate line going arriving in Leeds at around 4pm.