Unusual DMU combinations in Scotland

[Transilien]

Has there ever been an occurrence of a say- class 158 and 156 or 156 and 170 being coupled for passenger service in Scotland? I have only ever seen the class 158 and 170 being coupled together before.

 

[hexagon789]

Has there ever been an occurrence of a say- class 158 and 156 or 156 and 170 being coupled for passenger service in Scotland?

156 and 158 combos have operated on the Highland Main Line previously.

I don't think 156 + 170 have operated in passenger service due to certain systems not being compatible, hence such multi workings are ECS only.

 

[Kite159]

I would imagine, back before Shotts got wired, a 156 would have worked with a 158 to be a 4 coach train.

 

[fgwrich]

156 and 158 combos have operated on the Highland Main Line previously.

I don't think 156 + 170 have operated in passenger service due to certain systems not being compatible, hence such multi workings are ECS only.

I have a feeling 156+170 combinations were at one point possible as, as a young child used to growing up in the south west, I was more interested in travelling in the then fairly new Turbostar into Edinburgh from Bathgate than the ancient 156 on the front

(I’m glad I’ve learnt what taste is now and would rather have taken the sprinter now).

Can also confirm 156+158 combinations were and are still possible - one was working the Anniesland services recently.

 

[RiverDon]

I don't think 156 + 170 have operated in passenger service due to certain systems not being compatible, hence such multi workings are ECS only.

I've just had a look in the Scotrail 170 manual and train working instructions and there's nothing saying that they can't work together in passenger service. It wasn't mentioned on the traction training course either.

 

[Bevan Price]

Back in the days of Central Trains, 158+170 combinations were fairly commn on Liverpool-Nottingham (for Norwich) workings, but I don't remember seeing any 156+170 combinations. Of course, coupling a 75mph unit (156) to a 100mph (170) unit whilst technically possible, it would not be very desirable.

 

[route101]

I have a feeling 156+170 combinations were at one point possible as, as a young child used to growing up in the south west, I was more interested in travelling in the then fairly new Turbostar into Edinburgh from Bathgate than the ancient 156 on the front

(I’m glad I’ve learnt what taste is now and would rather have taken the sprinter now).

Can also confirm 156+158 combinations were and are still possible - one was working the Anniesland services recently.

The only time I seen a 156 and 170 working together was the day of the Leuchars Airshow 2004.
Was surprised to hear a Class 158 leave Glasgow Central the other week.

What about 6 car 158 workings? Are any booked?

 

[hexagon789]

I've just had a look in the Scotrail 170 manual and train working instructions and there's nothing saying that they can't work together in passenger service. It wasn't mentioned on the traction training course either.

Fair enough, I thought the PIS wasn't compatible or something to door with the door control wasn't compatible, so ECS was fine but not passenger service.

I think it did come up recently enough in another thread.

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I have a feeling 156+170 combinations were at one point possible as, as a young child used to growing up in the south west, I was more interested in travelling in the then fairly new Turbostar into Edinburgh from Bathgate than the ancient 156 on the front

Interesting, I didn't think 156s operated Bathgate.

It being 150s, then 158/170 until the A2B project was completed.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Dec 2025 ==

What about 6 car 158 workings? Are any booked?

Not sure about booked, but I've seen a couple of triple sets this year. Mostly on HML services.

 

[MCR247]

156s coupled to 170s was a pretty common sight with Central Trains. In fact I have a memory of seeing a ‘Centro’ Class 150/2 coupled to a 170 at Long Eaton on its way from Nottingham to Birmingham. Of course back then the only 156s with any form of digital PIS were in Scotland, so maybe it was different up there.

 

[Trainman40083]

Back in the days of Central Trains, 158+170 combinations were fairly commn on Liverpool-Nottingham (for Norwich) workings, but I don't remember seeing any 156+170 combinations. Of course, coupling a 75mph unit (156) to a 100mph (170) unit whilst technically possible, it would not be very desirable.

I remember the off Class 156/158 combination around Derby. The driver would be reminded that although he was driving a 90mph unit, it was attached to a 75mph unit.

 

[stadler]

Has there ever been an occurrence of a say- class 158 and 156 or 156 and 170 being coupled for passenger service in Scotland? I have only ever seen the class 158 and 170 being coupled together before.

Yes all of those have happened. Scotrail have run 156 + 158 and 156 + 170 and 158 + 170 formations. I will see if i can find the photos as i have definitely seen some.

 

[HighlandStorm]

Yes all of those have happened. Scotrail have run 156 + 158 and 156 + 170 and 158 + 170 formations. I will see if i can find the photos as i have definitely seen some.

I’ve certainly been on a 156 with a 170 attached on the Inverness - Aberdeen line. This might well have been the small overlap between 170s arriving and 158s displacing 156s from the North lines?

I’m also pretty sure back in the day ScotRail run 2 car trains that were part 156 and part 158!? I don’t think I imagined / dreamt / hallucinated it !

 

[Bayum]

Back in the days of Central Trains, 158+170 combinations were fairly commn on Liverpool-Nottingham (for Norwich) workings, but I don't remember seeing any 156+170 combinations. Of course, coupling a 75mph unit (156) to a 100mph (170) unit whilst technically possible, it would not be very desirable.

Very much depends on whether they worked lines that would get up to 100mph in the first place.

 

[stadler]

I’ve certainly been on a 156 with a 170 attached on the Inverness - Aberdeen line. This might well have been the small overlap between 170s arriving and 158s displacing 156s from the North lines?

I’m also pretty sure back in the day ScotRail run 2 car trains that were part 156 and part 158!? I don’t think I imagined / dreamt / hallucinated it !

Yes there were some weird two coach hybrid 156 + 158 formations years ago.



Central Trains certainly had some and i think you are correct that Scotrail did too.

 

[HighlandStorm]

^Thats reassuring that I’ve not lost my mind (completely)!

 

[stadler]

A video showing both a Scotrail 153 + 156 + 158 formation and a Scotrail 153 + 156 + 170 formation:

A video showing a Scotrail 156 + 158 formation:

A video showing a Scotrail 156 + 170 formation:

A video showing a Scotrail 156 + 158 formation:

A video showing a Scotrail 156 + 170 formation:

It seems like these are all still fairly common to find at least on the ECS moves.

 

[fgwrich]

Fair enough, I thought the PIS wasn't compatible or something to door with the door control wasn't compatible, so ECS was fine but not passenger service.

I think it did come up recently enough in another thread.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Dec 2025 ==


Interesting, I didn't think 156s operated Bathgate.

It being 150s, then 158/170 until the A2B project was completed.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Dec 2025 ==


Not sure about booked, but I've seen a couple of triple sets this year. Mostly on HML services.

Come to think of it, it could have been a 150 / 170 combination. I was about 9 at at the time and not long after my grandparents had moved up there. I do recall that the SPT ordered Turbostars did frequent the Bathgate line quite a lot, whilst SPT 156s frequented the Shotts services.

 

[hexagon789]

Come to think of it, it could have been a 150 / 170 combination. I was about 9 at at the time and not long after my grandparents had moved up there. I do recall that the SPT ordered Turbostars did frequent the Bathgate line quite a lot, whilst SPT 156s frequented the Shotts services.

The 150s were replaced by the second batch of Suburban 170s, which weren't SPT-sponsored and thus were intended, at least, for Edinburgh area/Fife services.

Shotts seemed to be pretty solidly 156 until the additional semi-fast services were added, doubling the lines frequency. Then 158s appeared. Otherwise 158s seemed more common on Whifflet services for some reason.

 

[stadler]

I would also be curious if anyone has any photos of Scotrail running 150+156 and 150+158 and 150+170 formations as these must have happened multiple times back then.

 

[hexagon789]

I would also be curious if anyone has any photos of Scotrail running 150+156 and 150+158 and 150+170 formations as these must have happened multiple times back then.

150+156 definitely happened, I've seen a pic of such a combo on a morning (0922?) Glasgow QS to Aberdeen train in 1990, when the Glasgow-Aberdeen services were briefly booked for 156s.

 

[stadler]

150+156 definitely happened, I've seen a pic of such a combo on a morning (0922?) Glasgow QS to Aberdeen train in 1990, when the Glasgow-Aberdeen services were briefly booked for 156s.

I imagine it was probably quite common back then as they both ran in the same area and were based at the same depots.

No photos of 150+156 or 150+158 but i have managed to find two photos online of 150+170 formations that Scotrail ran.





I remember these 150+170 formations happened sometimes at Central Trains and London Midland too.

 

[AMD]

What about 6 car 158 workings? Are any booked?

There is one diagram on the Borders route on a Sunday booked as 3x158 - starts as 2T68 1011 Edinburgh-Tweedbank & 2T69 return.

 

[EnchantGaming]

What about 6 car 158 workings? Are any booked?

2T68 10:11 Edinburgh to Tweedbank on a Sunday only, is booked as a 6 car 158. A 6 car 158 comes in empty from Haymarket Depot at 08:43, then runs ECS to Platform 1 or 20. However, this diagram has run as a 6 car Turbostar in the past. Depending on which 158's are available.

 

[CarrotPie]

I don't think 156 + 170 have operated in passenger service due to certain systems not being compatible, hence such multi workings are ECS only.

I've just had a look in the Scotrail 170 manual and train working instructions and there's nothing saying that they can't work together in passenger service. It wasn't mentioned on the traction training course either.

My British Railways Pocket Book says that 170s can work in multiple with all Sprinter classes (even 150s), so that makes sense.

 

[scotrail170407]

What about 6 car 158 workings? Are any booked?

There was a 6 car 158 working vice HST on an Edinburgh - Aberdeen - Inverness - Edinburgh diagram the other week.

Maybe it happened regularly years ago but I have never seen this formation on the Highland mainline before, it has been done fairly recently from Edinburgh to Aberdeen and over the top to Inverness though.

I ended up on the Inverness to Edinburgh service, it had to skip the stop at Dunkeld due to 6 cars not being risk assessed for the new platforms. Which was odd because I thought that only applied to 2x 170 because there’s no gangway between the units.

I’ve attached a photo of it at Pitlochry

 

[hexagon789]

There was a 6 car 158 working vice HST on an Edinburgh - Aberdeen - Inverness - Edinburgh diagram the other week.

Maybe it happened regularly years ago but I have never seen this formation on the Highland mainline before, it has been done fairly recently from Edinburgh to Aberdeen and over the top to Inverness though.

I ended up on the Inverness to Edinburgh service, it had to skip the stop at Dunkeld due to 6 cars not being risk assessed for the new platforms. Which was odd because I thought that only applied to 2x 170 because there’s no gangway between the units.

I’ve attached a photo of it at Pitlochry

The 1336-ish Edinburgh to Inverness was regularly booked 3 × 158 in the summer during First days to provide extra luggage and cycle space.

There was a balancing southbound working but I cannot recall what.

 

[thealexweb]

I remember the off Class 156/158 combination around Derby. The driver would be reminded that although he was driving a 90mph unit, it was attached to a 75mph unit.

Haha. This happened with Northern when a 158+142 combo got up to 90mph years ago.

 

[matchmaker]

I remember seeing a 150/170 combo on a Dunblane - Edinburgh more than once.