Unsafe Working

[Milky]

If you witnessed railway staff working unsafely and risking the safety of trains would you report it?

 

[Monty]

That depends, something that some may consider unsafe could actually be standard practice. Now as a member of staff my role requires me to have knowledge on certain sections of the Railway Rulebook and if I saw a breech I would feel duty bound to report it. If I wasn't sure if a rule was being broken or not I'd keep my mouth firmly shut.

 

[badassunicorn]

If the safety of trains was in question I would 100% report/make safe the situation to the extent of my training. Obviously the "safety of trains" is a broad banner and a response would have to be tailored towards the individual situation.

 

[156441]

I'd probably have some balls and approach them myself. However that would be harder than going on twitter and using 140 characters.
Promptly starting an investigation, possible medscreening, possible suspension from duties (loss of overtime etc) and ultimately depending on employer dismissal from role.

As said above by qualified rail staff and reiterated by myself as qualified train crew, some things may look unsafe but may be completely innocent.

Feel free to grab some balls and go speak to the offending person though!

 

[BestWestern]

Let's break the ice then; what did you see?! Obviously without locations and times etc, but if you outline the situation you'll get a balanced response from staff members who can weigh up the situation from an 'inside' viewpoint.

 

[A-driver]

If there is any danger then yes, it needs to be reported somehow. If nothing else, if anything happens and it comes up that you ignored it as fellow staff you could be in a lot of trouble to. How to report it depends as. Often a quiet word with the individual will do rather than dragging a minor safety breach through official channels but obviously in done instances it would need to be reported.

I am interested to know what kind of safety breaches you mean though as generally the UK railway us very, very safe and very few staff would carry out any dangerous working practices as it's in no ones interest and everyone knows the likely hood of being reported is very high and the consequences or punishment likely to be very severe. Have you witnessed something you seem unsafe?

 

[ainsworth74]

If people wish to discuss this topic they are free to do so. However, I would like to draw everyone's attention to our forum rules in general and these provisions specifically:

Respectful

• We aim to create a friendly environment for all members, where individuals respect each other. Please ensure your contributions comply with this.
• Do not post material which in any way discriminates against, or provokes, any person or group of persons.

 

[yorkie]

If you witnessed railway staff working unsafely and risking the safety of trains would you report it?

Presumably you mean if you are absolutely sure that it is unsafe practice, and not just someone without any knowledge thinking "oh, that doesn't look safe" when really it is safe? In which case the question answers itself surely?

 

[bronzeonion]

Witnessed driver trying to close doors on alighting passengers and then departing with people virtually touching the sides of the train at [an LO station], obviously doesn't care about the PTI and what have you. Didn't report as 1. Cba and 2. Do not want to be responsible for someone losing their job or being punished.

 

[High Dyke]

If you are railway emplyee then each employer should have their own method of reporting unsafe acts by railway staff; other wise there is the CIRAS system: 0800 4 101 101

As a member of the public you can contact Network Rail on 08457 11 41 41

http://www.networkrail.co.uk/aspx/1346.aspx

 

[GodAtum]

Ive reported when the rear cab door is left open to staff on the platform.

 

[Milky]

That depends, something that some may consider unsafe could actually be standard practice. Now as a member of staff my role requires me to have knowledge on certain sections of the Railway Rulebook and if I saw a breech I would feel duty bound to report it. If I wasn't sure if a rule was being broken or not I'd keep my mouth firmly shut.

Ok, so can the line be crossed without PPE? Can station staff take line blockages? Is it ok to cross an open line when it's not an approved crossing? Should large items be dragged across the track? Should non railway staff also cross the line?

 

[asylumxl]

I'd say report it if you truly think it's unsafe. If it is an accepted practice or considered a minor digression then nothing will come of it, and if it is truly unsafe then the company involved will decide the correct action to take.

At the end of the day, the railways are a dangerous place and lapses in safety could result in injury or death. Railway staff are aware of what is and isn't considered safe practice and if they do something that is unacceptable should be willing to accept the consequences.

 

[carriageline]

Ok, so can the line be crossed without PPE? Can station staff take line blockages? Is it ok to cross an open line when it's not an approved crossing? Should large items be dragged across the track? Should non railway staff also cross the line?

Is that what you have witnessed? I suppose it depends on a fair few things. Did you witness this as a "pedestrian"?

 

[A-driver]

Ok, so can the line be crossed without PPE? Can station staff take line blockages? Is it ok to cross an open line when it's not an approved crossing? Should large items be dragged across the track? Should non railway staff also cross the line?

There is no 'yes or no' answer to any if those examples. The answer to all of those is 'it depends'.

Some station staff can take blocks, others can't. The line can be crossed safely away from crossings and p-way do it a hundred times a day. Large items can be dragged-again pway often do this. Non rail staff can cross the line in evacuations/emergencies/if deemed necessary and accompanied by rail staff.

 

[GadgetMan]

Ok, so can the line be crossed without PPE? Can station staff take line blockages? Is it ok to cross an open line when it's not an approved crossing? Should large items be dragged across the track? Should non railway staff also cross the line?

Sounds like an old barrow crossing. At stations with no lifts and no other way to access from one platform to the other (avoiding stairs) these are sometimes still used. If the platform staff spoke to box and got a blockage then it all sounds like its within the local rules.

 

[AndyLandy]

As a member of the general public, I would only report something if I genuinely felt there was a significant risk to myself or others. I certainly wouldn't consider myself qualified to judge on most matters of railway safety regulations.

 

[Monty]

Ok, so can the line be crossed without PPE

What do you mean exactly by PPE? That could mean a lot of things, the only item of equipment required to be on or near the line is a orange high visibility jacket or vest (Oh and your PTS card in that counts).

Can station staff take line blockages?

If it was an emergency yes station staff could at least in theory, request to the signaller to block the running lines.

Is it ok to cross an open line when it's not an approved crossing?

That depends, if the person(s) is authorised to go onto the track during their duties and have the appropriate equipment and training then yes.

Should large items be dragged across the track?

Honestly? I'm not 100% sure about that, I won't comment any further as there maybe somewhere on here who better placed to answer that question than I.

Should non railway staff also cross the line?

Who are these non railway staff? Members of the public? Contractors? Are they crossing at a foot crossing or just right over the track? Passengers, unless being evacuated under supervision in an emergency should not be on the track at all. Contractors however may have to as part of their duties and will receive the relevent training if this is required. A good example are the platform extensions being constructed on SWT's network, this work is being carried out by an external contractor.

 

[carriageline]

A hi vis is all that's required for SOME
staff, PTS isn't always required (authorized walking routes, someone who has filled out a Visitors permit etc)

Large items can be dragged across the track (well, depends what you mean by "dragged"), if the line has been blocked, as it affects the safety of the line.

Platform staff can take a line blockage for a number of things, retrieving items that have fallen onto the line, emergency LBs etc. There is provision on the LB form for this to happen.

 

[Boodiggy]

Ok, so can the line be crossed without PPE? Can station staff take line blockages? Is it ok to cross an open line when it's not an approved crossing? Should large items be dragged across the track? Should non railway staff also cross the line?

No ppe is not allowed although it can depend on your role. I work on the track and we need full ppe at all times but we can walk on an authorised walk route with just a vest. Drivers can go to an SPT etc with just a vest. Depends what you mean by ppe. I'm sure station staff should be able to take a line blockage although the communication with the signaller would be very different to that of track workers, again depends on the situation. Other than getting something dropped on to the track I don't know what station staff would need a line blockage for, They would have to contact the signaller for whatever they needed.
What is meant by not an approved crossing. PTS trained staff can use all walking routes and track workers will have a planned safe system of work when on the track which will detail their access point etc. If anything is to be dragged across the track a blockage would be required. Non railway staff should not cross the line in normal circumstances other than at proper crossings. If you are railway staff and you see someone doing something unsafe then you should have the confidence to report it. If they are breaking the rules they take that chance, not just creating a risk to trains but also to themselves. It is a very hard question to answer.

 

[Timothy Turtle]

As Boodiggy says, this is a hard question to answer. Unless one is a current (or possibly ex) member of railway staff you are unlikely to know the rules. However, if you see someone doing something which could endanger themselves or others, I believe we all have a moral to responsibility to report it - and let the appropriate authority decide what, if any, action should be taken. Better safe than sorry every time in my book.

 

[O L Leigh]

Surely you have to understand what it is that you are seeing and why it's being done before you can judge whether or not it is safe or unsafe.

O L Leigh

 

[TheEdge]

The only yes no answer is the one about PPE (and even then its not a perfect 100%). Someone on or near the line must be wearing railway standard hi-vis. As has been said the rest is all dependent on the context and situation.

 

[LowLevel]

Surely you have to understand what it is that you are seeing and why it's being done before you can judge whether or not it is safe or unsafe.

O L Leigh

If you report something to the relevant body though you're not making that judgement, it should be someone qualified. It is of course a different matter if you, for example just go to the papers. The railway not dealing with reports correctly being a contributor to the Potters Bar crash after all.

 

[Milky]

There were four people, one was station staff wearing a hi-vis orange vest, which I know is acceptable, another who I presume to be a delivery driver was wearing a yellow vest, not acceptable, and the other two were wearing no PPE and looked like SSP staff.

As I didn't see the member of station staff using a telephone between trains I highly doubt there was a line blockage on.

The crossing they were using is a barrow style crossing but I'm almost sure it shouldn't be used. There is a bridge and lifts at the station but I don't know why these weren't being used.

 

[Flamingo]

If a member of the station staff, in high-vis, was escorting others across a barrow crossing, then it was probably legitimate. If nothing else, station staff are very aware that the are watched by CCTV. The people involved may not have been able to manage the steps, and do you know that the lifts were working?

 

[Anvil1984]

They could have phoned from inside the station builidings how do you know?

If using the barrow crossing then only the railway staff need to wear the hi viz. If a passenger with a pram / wheelchair uses a barrow crossing then they dont need to wear any high viz

 

[GB]

There were four people, one was station staff wearing a hi-vis orange vest, which I know is acceptable, another who I presume to be a delivery driver was wearing a yellow vest, not acceptable, and the other two were wearing no PPE and looked like SSP staff.

As I didn't see the member of station staff using a telephone between trains I highly doubt there was a line blockage on.

The crossing they were using is a barrow style crossing but I'm almost sure it shouldn't be used. There is a bridge and lifts at the station but I don't know why these weren't being used.

You seem to be making a lot of assumptions based on what looks like very little.

 

[DarloRich]

I would say always report something you consider to be unsafe - Use one of the numbers posted above or point it out to station staff. Try to do it in a constructive or concerned way rather than stomping about shouting the odds!

We are "empowered" as a railway work force to report anything we consider to be safety breaches. A mature safety culture should welcome these reports and feed back on what was found. 99 times out of a 100 it will be perfectly fine and acceptable.

If it looks dangerous to you then report it. It might be nothing but then again.......

 

[LowLevel]

There were four people, one was station staff wearing a hi-vis orange vest, which I know is acceptable, another who I presume to be a delivery driver was wearing a yellow vest, not acceptable, and the other two were wearing no PPE and looked like SSP staff.

As I didn't see the member of station staff using a telephone between trains I highly doubt there was a line blockage on.

The crossing they were using is a barrow style crossing but I'm almost sure it shouldn't be used. There is a bridge and lifts at the station but I don't know why these weren't being used.

Based on that then, as someone who is fully aware of what you're on about having been qualified to do that particular job myself until very recently, that's perfectly legitimate. The only person required to wear an orange vest is the member of staff conducting the other persons across the crossing, the delivery drivers clothing is irrelevant as he's a member of the public. You do not give members of the public PPE. There is no other PPE required to be worn. A line blockage is not taken, it is the same as the signaller clearing a lorry or other long vehicle across an occupation crossing. The member of staff conducting the public across the crossing will make the call to the signaller, who will authorise the movement and put appropriate protection in place ie collar up the protecting signals, and then remove this when advised the crossing is clear.

I'm going to put 5p on the line and guess you're talking about Leicester station, where the lift to platforms 3 and 4 is currently broken, in which case this is a perfectly legitimate operation being carried out on a daily basis at present as it is the only way to make deliveries and get passengers with mobility issues over the line. Station staff are trained and qualified to use the crossing in this manner, even if you're not referring to Leicester it is a general statement.

If you did report it, as an aside, the action taken would be simply to pull the 'box voice tapes to confirm that the call for permission to cross was made - everything else is completely above board.