Unreserved seating with a reserved seat ticket.

[Skymonster]

An “nice” guard / ticket inspector asked me to move from an unreserved to my reserved seat on Cross Country Voyager a few weeks ago. I declined, politely explaining that the seat the system had allocated to me did not meet my needs: I requested and wanted a table by a window but was allocated an airline, next to the aisle, without a proper window. He then said that he could “report me” for not sitting in my allocated seat, to which I replied that “… I guess you could, but with respect I am sitting in an unreserved seat so that might look a little ridiculous when I follow up with a formal complaint.” He glared at me and moved on without further comment. Moral of story: if you are sitting in a seat that is NOT reserved for anyone else, be polite nut firm and stand your ground.

 

[styles]

An “nice” guard / ticket inspector asked me to move from an unreserved to my reserved seat on Cross Country Voyager a few weeks ago. I declined, politely explaining that the seat the system had allocated to me did not meet my needs: I requested and wanted a table by a window but was allocated an airline, next to the aisle, without a proper window. He then said that he could “report me” for not sitting in my allocated seat, to which I replied that “… I guess you could, but with respect I am sitting in an unreserved seat so that might look a little ridiculous when I follow up with a formal complaint.” He glared at me and moved on without further comment. Moral of story: if you are sitting in a seat that is NOT reserved for anyone else, be polite nut firm and stand your ground.

Got to be having a bad day to suggest reporting a passenger for sitting in an unreserved seat, even on a busy service.

 

[bleeder4]

I very rarely sit in my reserved seat. The problem is that when you buy a ticket online it always reserves a seat on the selected service for you, whether you want one or not. I generally just board the train directly in the unreserved seats coach. It actually tends to be quieter. Because the majority of passengers get on with a seat reservation, if that seat is occupied and they decide not to cause a scene about it, they generally never wander too far from the coach that seat is in, even standing in the vestibule of that coach rather than walking down the train to the unreserved area.

 

[Tetchytyke]

He then said that he could “report me” for not sitting in my allocated seat, to which I replied that “… I guess you could, but with respect I am sitting in an unreserved seat so that might look a little ridiculous when I follow up with a formal complaint.”

The terms and conditions for an Advance ticket state that you must sit in your reserved seat.

Advance Tickets Terms and Conditions | National Rail

The terms and conditions for using Advance tickets on National Rail services. Advance tickets are single tickets for selected journeys, available in First Class and Standard Class, offering the best available price for each journey.

www.nationalrail.co.uk

4.2 Where applicable, you must travel in the Class and reserved seat(s) shown on the ticket(s).

As you say, trying to enforce this condition would leave a guard or RPI looking utterly ridiculous. But he is correct: you are not travelling within the terms and conditions of the ticket if you sit somewhere else.

 

[yorkie]

I've been at Kings Cross buying an open day return ticket to Stevenage for a LNER departure leaving in a few minutes, and it's annoying to pointlessly have to pick what trains I'll get, and then get seat reservations, especially on a return journey which I'm unlikely to take.

Book with us; we not only have a seat selector, but also an 'open return' option (which is relatively new).

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Feb 2025 ==

I very rarely sit in my reserved seat. The problem is that when you buy a ticket online it always reserves a seat on the selected service for you, whether you want one or not.

Our site allows you to pick a seat of your choice, or to state you don't want a reservation (where appropriate, i.e. not on an Advance)

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Feb 2025 ==

... He then said that he could “report me” for not sitting in my allocated seat..

Sadly, there are a few militant guards around who act this way. They are very much a minority. There are insufficient safeguards in place to ensure that all staff are fully suitable for a customer-facing role and behave appropriately.

 

[TUC]

On multiple occasions I have found that, despite requesting a table seat, I have been allocated an airline seat. I therefore see no problem with using a table seat if one is free. It doesn't really disadvantage other passengers as if, for example, a seat is marked as reserved from Darlington to London but the train is now at Northallerton and no one is sitting in it, the chances of the reservation holder turning up are remote.

 

[YorksLad12]

I book my tickets for getting to work with LNER as I can get cashback. They always assign a seat and there's no way to turn it off. When I'm rushing for my train back its not worth trying to find the reserved seat for a 30min journey, I just sit anywhere.

This would be resolved if LNER updated their app to add an option to not book seats.

you can reserve a seat with LNER without a ticket but I don't know if you can specify a specific seat. Are there booking sites that let you reserve specific seats without a ticket?

That's interesting; I've never not been able to book the seat I want, in the direction I want, unless that seat is already taken. In fact, I wish the LNER booking tool was in use elsewhere.

The only way it could be better for me would be if the window positions were indicated; I now have a list of seats to choose when booking, which is very nerdy. Actually, it would be good if you could see how full trains were before starting the booking process, but that's probably asking too much.

You can book a seat for a train you're not booked on if you have a valid ticket to travel - for example, your train is cancelled or there's been an issue somewhere (done it myself). You should be able to change your seating preferences in the settings; My Account > Journey Preferences when logged in. You can choose direction and window or aisle, or neither. What you can't do is not book any seat... but you could always book the worst seat on the train, if you're never going to use it, and save the rest of us from accidentally taking it

 

[Flying Snail]

Book with us; we not only have a seat selector, but also an 'open return' option (which is relatively new).

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Feb 2025 ==


Our site allows you to pick a seat of your choice, or to state you don't want a reservation (where appropriate, i.e. not on an Advance)

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Feb 2025 ==

How about offering reservations for those who already have tickets, currently only possible through GWR but with no seat selector.

 

[styles]

How about offering reservations for those who already have tickets, currently only possible through GWR but with no seat selector.

Presumably GWR only offer this for GWR services?

I normally find I have to contact operators by phone, live chat, or ticket office to make reservations for flexible tickets. It is pretty inconvenient.

The other thing to consider is that, to prevent people booking multiple seats under the same ticket, any existing reservations really ought to be revoked at the point of making a new one.

I'm not sure what's possible with the centralised booking systems but would be keen to know!

 

[yorkie]

Presumably GWR only offer this for GWR services?

I normally find I have to contact operators by phone, live chat, or ticket office to make reservations for flexible tickets. It is pretty inconvenient.

The other thing to consider is that, to prevent people booking multiple seats under the same ticket, any existing reservations really ought to be revoked at the point of making a new one.

I'm not sure what's possible with the centralised booking systems but would be keen to know!

GWR's site allows anyone with an account with them to reserve a seat on any reservable service, albeit without seat selection.

 

[Flying Snail]

Presumably GWR only offer this for GWR services?

No, available for all TOCs, annoyingly and no doubt to the confusion of most people it will even spit out <Coach -- Seat --> counted place reservations for trains with advance tickets but no actual seat reservations.

 

[styles]

GWR's site allows anyone with an account with them to reserve a seat on any reservable service, albeit without seat selection.

Interesting, so must be possible with RARS2?

 

[yorkie]

How about offering reservations for those who already have tickets, currently only possible through GWR but with no seat selector.

I wouldn't want to be a retailer incurring the costs of doing this. I don't think we will see a seat selector, except for part of the booking process. If people want a specific seat, they can either book with us* and do it at the time of purchase, or they can visit a ticket office.

(* Or the generic Trainsplit site, or any other branded Trainsplit site, or alternatively use certain train company sites, such as LNER who provide that facility, but only if the entire journey is with that company)

 

[Belperpete]

GWR's site allows anyone with an account with them to reserve a seat on any reservable service, albeit without seat selection.

Just to clarify, does it allow you to reserve a seat even if you didn't book the ticket through their site? E.g. if you bought the ticket from a TVM?

 

[BG2024]

I do it all the time on moderately-loaded TPEs. Last time I boarded at Darlington there were about 15 passengers waiting to board the already half-full coach B (where I was meant to go), while coach D didn't have a single person in there.

The logic of this has never made sense to me. Surely it's better to scatter unreserved seats throughout the train so passengers can find one wherever they board, rather than have people slowly dragging their suitcases through the carriages, staring at the tiny reservation screens, desperately looking for a seat without knowing there are dozens free at the far end of the train.

 

[Flying Snail]

I wouldn't want to be a retailer incurring the costs of doing this. I don't think we will see a seat selector, except for part of the booking process. If people want a specific seat, they can either book with us* and do it at the time of purchase, or they can visit a ticket office.

(* Or the generic Trainsplit site, or any other branded Trainsplit site, or alternatively use certain train company sites, such as LNER who provide that facility, but only if the entire journey is with that company)

I would not expect 3rd party retailers to issue loss making free reservations, the question is how much would it cost?

I left out another source of standalone reservations in the earlier post, ACP Rail offer them at £4/€6 a pop.

They also include a note stating "Buying a Seat Reservation in the UK does not always assure an assigned seat. Instead, it will guarantee an available seat on the train." Which is obviously crap as counted place reservations in no way guarantee an available seat or even travel on an overcrowded train.

 

[stuu]

Just to clarify, does it allow you to reserve a seat even if you didn't book the ticket through their site? E.g. if you bought the ticket from a TVM?

Yes, I booked a seat via the GWR website for an Interrail trip

 

[Route115?]

I have a staff pass so fortunately do not need to buy advanced tickets linked to a specific seat.

If I am travelling without a reservation I will often swap between seats which are unreserved for part of the journey (there might be one from Edinburgh to Berwick, another from Berwick to Newcastle & so on).

As far as sitting in reserved seats is concerned, I believe that it certainly used to be the case that you could sit in a reserved seat that was not occupied ten minutes into a journey (you have to give the passenger time to walk down the train).

As some passengers may reserve seats on more than one train, or be travelling on a different train with a 70min each way validity ticket - or indeed an open ticket that comes with a reservation, so many seats will not be occupied.

I would, of course, vacate my seat if the passenger appeared, but I would be very unhappy if told off for sitting in an unoccupied reserved seat. Fortunately, in my experience, on board staff are generally reasonable and understand this.

I remember that many years ago I travelled on a TGV between Paris & Lausanne (FIP coupon with supplement) and was given a ticket without a seat reservation. The conductor then directed me to a seat. I presume that SNCF overbook on occasions and rely on seats being available.

 

[sheff1]

On multiple occasions I have found that, despite requesting a table seat, I have been allocated an airline seat. I therefore see no problem with using a table seat if one is free.

I am the opposite. On multiple occasions I am allocated a table seat (often an aisle one) when I have requested a window airline seat. On boarding, a seat of the type I requested is unreserved and empty more often than not, so that is where I will sit.

 

[Falcon1200]

Personally I am reluctant to sit in an empty reserved seat, in case the reserver has temporarily gone elsewhere in the train or has not yet reached their seat. Also, can a seat be shown 'Reserved Glasgow to Euston ' but in fact be for 2 separate trips, eg Glasgow to Preston and Preston to Euston?

 

[takno]

Personally I am reluctant to sit in an empty reserved seat, in case the reserver has temporarily gone elsewhere in the train or has not yet reached their seat. Also, can a seat be shown 'Reserved Glasgow to Euston ' but in fact be for 2 separate trips, eg Glasgow to Preston and Preston to Euston?

I think that would always be shown as "Reserved to Glasgow to Preston", switching to "Reserved Preston to Euston" at Preston.

 

[Falcon1200]

I think that would always be shown as "Reserved to Glasgow to Preston", switching to "Reserved Preston to Euston" at Preston.

I'm sure you are right. Don't know whether that applies to all reservation systems however!

 

[Failed Unit]

It's really irritating when you're in a hurry too!

I've been at Kings Cross buying an open day return ticket to Stevenage for a LNER departure leaving in a few minutes, and it's annoying to pointlessly have to pick what trains I'll get, and then get seat reservations, especially on a return journey which I'm unlikely to take.

Try using the GTR ticket machines, they don't ask as GTR services don't have reservations. Not sure if they are only at the end of the station near platforms 9 / 10 but they are a lot quicker than the LNER machines.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Mar 2025 ==

I'm sure you are right. Don't know whether that applies to all reservation systems however!

I am not sure if it is people don't look, or don't care. The number of times I get on an LNER at Stevenage heading north to find someone else say in my seat. The "I didn't know is the most common response" Most of the time they move but you often have to look elsewhere (ie move into coach c). The other pet hate is if the train they were supposed to be on is cancelled and they think the reservation has moved with them. That does get a no win situation. "It isn't my fault my trains was cancelled" - "It isn't mine either so why should I stand?"

 

[Peter0124]

On 390s the reservation system only shows the destination and not the origin eg if reserving from Motherwell to Preston, it will say "Reserved to Preston"

Not very helpful if you don't know the origin of where the person gets on

 

[Scott W]

An “nice” guard / ticket inspector asked me to move from an unreserved to my reserved seat on Cross Country Voyager a few weeks ago. I declined, politely explaining that the seat the system had allocated to me did not meet my needs: I requested and wanted a table by a window but was allocated an airline, next to the aisle, without a proper window. He then said that he could “report me” for not sitting in my allocated seat, to which I replied that “… I guess you could, but with respect I am sitting in an unreserved seat so that might look a little ridiculous when I follow up with a formal complaint.” He glared at me and moved on without further comment. Moral of story: if you are sitting in a seat that is NOT reserved for anyone else, be polite nut firm and stand your ground.

If running as a double set I always head to the back of the back set on Cross Country as inevitably only a fraction of the loading and thus a much better travel experience (as good as it can be on a Voyager).

Be an interesting conversation if asked to move forward seven or eight carriages to my reserved seat!

 

[Purple Train]

On multiple occasions I have found that, despite requesting a table seat, I have been allocated an airline seat. I therefore see no problem with using a table seat if one is free. It doesn't really disadvantage other passengers as if, for example, a seat is marked as reserved from Darlington to London but the train is now at Northallerton and no one is sitting in it, the chances of the reservation holder turning up are remote.

This has been my experience as well. I have no idea why it happens, but it does make it rather annoying when I'm travelling with heavy luggage and then realise I have only the width of an airline row to manoeuvre it despite the unoccupied, unreserved table of four just behind it, when I asked for a table seat! One reason why seat selectors are so very good... when they work.