Unprofessional barrier staff?

[stevefreestone]

I remember late at night (when I was driving a rail replacement bus) the ticket seller who checked passengers as they boarded pocketed a tenner, didn't issue a ticket, then bragged to me what he'd done.

It's OK being sanctimonious* about customers not paying, but your story does illustrate a lot!

* not saying you are!!

 

[A-driver]

It's OK being sanctimonious* about customers not paying, but your story does illustrate a lot!

* not saying you are!!

Don't be stupid...it hardly illustrates 'a lot' does it?!

So you now know of one ticket inspector who has pocketed a Tenner. That isn't 'a lot' by any stretch of the imagination!

I've heard stories of shop workers with their hands in the tills. Dosnt mean that all shop workers are thrives or even that it happens in any way regularly. You hear of the odd bent copper, councillor a accepting bribes, dodgy MPs etc.

In any walk of life there will be rogues but they are a minority and certainly don't 'illustrate a lot'!

 

[yorkie]

You'll be surprised. I got on the train once at Gainsborough Lea Road, got off at Doncaster and the revenue staff examining that day wanted to penalty charge me because the conductor was being a lazy sod and hadn't bothered selling tickets. I demanded a manager who sorted it out in the end. How many others were 'caught' when facilities were not available?

They cannot issue a Penalty Fare in these circumstances, for several reasons, including that PFs are not chargeable when there are no facilities, Gainsborough Lea Road is not a PF station, the train was not a PF train, etc...

However if they denied you a Railcard discount then I can understand how it would be percieved as a 'penalty' of sorts.

There is no guarantee that the conductor was being lazy, unless of course more information than revealed here was available to you at that time (e.g. if you knew that his Avantix machine was in working order, and had not run out of ticket stock and battery power, and there were no other issues to deal with on the train).

Are they on commission?

In general guards and on-board ticket examiners are but RPIs and booking office staff are not.

PS Manager let me through for free in the end, she wasn't happy with them either, although I still had to pay a single to get back so it wasn't much of a saving.

I would have simply insisted that the (discounted - if applicable) SDR was sold, and ask for details of what action will be taken to ensure lessons are learnt.

 

[stevefreestone]

They cannot issue a Penalty Fare in these circumstances, for several reasons, including that PFs are not chargeable when there are no facilities, Gainsborough Lea Road is not a PF station, the train was not a PF train, etc...

However if they denied you a Railcard discount then I can understand how it would be percieved as a 'penalty' of sorts.

There is no guarantee that the conductor was being lazy, unless of course more information than revealed here was available to you at that time (e.g. if you knew that his Avantix machine was in working order, and had not run out of ticket stock and battery power, and there were no other issues to deal with on the train).

In general guards and on-board ticket examiners are but RPIs and booking office staff are not.

I would have simply insisted that the (discounted - if applicable) SDR was sold, and ask for details of what action will be taken to ensure lessons are learnt.

The fare protection officer insisted that Gainsborough was a station you could buy tickets from and "that I shouldn't have relied on the conductor".
If you come into contact with idiocy like this, is it any wonder why people capitulate and pay when they didn't need to? "Because someone in uniform told me?". An uniform by the way very similar to what the Police wear.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Don't be stupid...it hardly illustrates 'a lot' does it?!

Oh right, so it's just the customers then that are out to rip off the companies? :roll:

 

[A-driver]

Oh right, so it's just the customers then that are out to rip off the companies? :roll:

What do you mean? Who said anything about ripping off companies or customers? I just pointed out that knowing a story about one guy taking back handers dosnt illustrate much as you said, it certainly dosnt mean its a big problem or even suggest many people do it. It means that there are the odd rogues out there like any industry.

I'd be more surprised if anyone suggested that there are no rogue inspectors out there actually.

 

[Fare-Cop]

In BR days we ran many a successful 'mystery shopper' type sting to catch out staff who were 'dipping in the till' as it were, the TOCs do monitor staff all the time in one way or another too.

The fact remains that a great many travellers are opportunists, failing to pay fares unless detected, or pressed to do so.

Running late, not paying and then asking, or expecting, to be let-off just isn't an acceptable action.

 

[stevefreestone]

In BR days we ran many a successful 'mystery shopper' type sting to catch out staff who were 'dipping in the till' as it were, the TOCs do monitor staff all the time in one way or another too.

The fact remains that a great many travellers are opportunists, failing to pay fares unless detected, or pressed to do so.

Running late, not paying and then asking, or expecting, to be let-off just isn't an acceptable action.

Neither is not giving customers the opportunity to pay for their tickets, such as having working ticket machines if there is no ticket office available or conductors actually interacting with customers and you know, selling tickets on board trains.

Am I to take it now that I run a risk of a penalty fare these days going between Gainsborough and Lincoln if a conductor doesn't sell me a ticket as Lincoln is now gated? After all, customers are guilty at all times if they do not have a ticket on the railways, according to the para-military styled 'revenue protection officers' of the rail companies.

 

[Haywain]

Am I to take it now that I run a risk of a penalty fare these days going between Gainsborough and Lincoln if a conductor doesn't sell me a ticket as Lincoln is now gated? After all, customers are guilty at all times if they do not have a ticket on the railways, according to the para-military styled 'revenue protection officers' of the rail companies.

No you are not to take it that you are at risk of a penalty fare, because Gainsborough Lea Road and Lincoln are not penalty fare stations. But then you probably knew that, didn't you?

 

[stevefreestone]

No you are not to take it that you are at risk of a penalty fare, because Gainsborough Lea Road and Lincoln are not penalty fare stations. But then you probably knew that, didn't you?

Yes, but would a commission driven 'Revenue protection officer' understand that, dressed in his para-military style uniform?

 

[Flamingo]

Yes, but would a commission driven 'Revenue protection officer' understand that, dressed in his para-military style uniform?

You need a new tin-foil hat, mate!

 

[stevefreestone]

You need a new tin-foil hat, mate!

Just stating personal experience. Not every person working on the railway is friendly. Or professional.

And it is factual, for some reason, these RPOs go around in para-military, police looking uniforms.

 

[Flamingo]

Well, you have already been told on this thread that RPO's don't get commission, and can only issue penalty fares where this is allowed, not on a whim.

I know our RPI's and revenue staff wear either company uniform (a blue suit) or a grey suit. I don't know any rail company that issues a paramilitary style uniform.

 

[jon0844]

I've never seen anyone looking like that. The only time they'll not wear a uniform is when they're working plain clothes, when they tend to try hard to look as chavvy as they can!

 

[142094]

And it is factual, for some reason, these RPOs go around in para-military, police looking uniforms.

Which is provided by each TOC and not from the local Army Surplus. Next you'll be saying they have SA80s...

 

[Fare-Cop]

Not every person working on the railway is friendly. Or professional.

And it is factual, for some reason, these RPOs go around in para-military, police looking uniforms.

Just as not every person who hasn't got a ticket has a genuine reason, or is understanding and not downright rude when asked to comply. There may be a bad egg in any basket, but that isn't the norm in my experience.

Which TOC actually provides a para-military, or police styled uniform for revenue staff ?

 

[Flamingo]

Which is provided by each TOC and not from the local Army Surplus. Next you'll be saying they have SA80s...

Chance would be a fine thing! Give them SLR's, a proper man's rifle...

 

[ainsworth74]

Chance would be a fine thing! Give them SLR's, a proper man's rifle...

Backed up with a Carl Gustav recoilless rifle for the real tough cases? Or perhaps something a bit more modern/fancy like a Javelin?

 

[Flamingo]

I would be more in favour of a club with a nail sticking out of it

 

[ainsworth74]

Simple, yet undoubtedly very effective!

 

[Starmill]

I'm sure I heard someone on a meet the other day suggest returning the death penalty for fare evasion.

 

[sarahj]

Tempted, very tempted, esp when you come across someone with a Brighton - Preston park return, on a fast Brighton - victoria service. First they say, they bought the wrong ticket...they are going to East croydon, so you get ready to change the ticket, then its, I wanted preston park, but got on the wrong train. and then the moans when you mark their ticket and deface the mag strip so it wont work in the barriers when they come back to Brighton much much later and let them know they have been reported.

 

[Fare-Cop]

and then the moans when you mark their ticket and deface the mag strip so it wont work in the barriers when they come back to Brighton much much later and let them know they have been reported.

If they are being reported, why not simply withdraw the Brighton-Preston Park ticket and submit as evidence with the report?

 

[Flamingo]

If they are being reported, why not simply withdraw the Brighton-Preston Park ticket and submit as evidence with the report?

I've been told by my manager to never take a ticket off a passenger if it is invalid, as this is "confrontational".

So now, (on the odd occasion I don't just clip it and walk away, in line with instructions from my manager) I write void on it, and rip it before handing it back

 

[jon0844]

I'm sure I heard someone on a meet the other day suggest returning the death penalty for fare evasion.

Woah - that seems rather over the top.

I'd say you get a warning first time and then the chop if caught again. That would mean redesigning some of the posters to say it's a 'compulsory execution zone'.

Would forgetting your railcard be included?

 

[jb]

Would forgetting your railcard be included?

Yeah, except it's a slightly less heinous offence so it gets a quick, painless lethal injection rather than hanging, drawing and quartering.

 

[Flamingo]

Yeah, except it's a slightly less heinous offence so it gets a quick, painless lethal injection rather than hanging, drawing and quartering.

Wuss!

 

[redbutton]

WRT the earlier comments about police-style uniforms:

I've definitely seen SE staff patrolling an Orpington to Victoria service in what looked like police uniforms but with Southeastern logos across the breast and back where it would normally say "POLICE" or the name of a force. I wouldn't call this "Paramilitary" in the least, though.

But, if these staff were involved in revenue protection duties, I would venture to say that the lay passenger could be quite intimidated.

However, I believe these were Rail Enforcement Officers, whose job description (from the SE website) describes revenue duties as being occasional, such as for special events.

 

[Fare-Cop]

I've been told by my manager to never take a ticket off a passenger if it is invalid, as this is "confrontational".

So now, (on the odd occasion I don't just clip it and walk away, in line with instructions from my manager) I write void on it, and rip it before handing it back

Yes, I understand that action by a Guard or Conductor Flamingo, but I was referring to the comment that someone is being reported.

Admittedly I would assume that reporting will normally only be undertaken by an RPI in most cases and that Conductors / Guards / Train Managers may have safety critical duties to attend to, so will try to avoid being bogged down, but for a inspector, retaining the evidence of 'short-ticket' is an essential part of the reporting process.

 

[sarahj]

I've been told by my manager to never take a ticket off a passenger if it is invalid, as this is "confrontational".

So now, (on the odd occasion I don't just clip it and walk away, in line with instructions from my manager) I write void on it, and rip it before handing it back

What he said. The pass was big, I was alone. He got his ticket back marked as such. I told him his comments were being reported, and to go and sit down. Which he did. (phew)

 

[stevefreestone]

I've never seen anyone looking like that. The only time they'll not wear a uniform is when they're working plain clothes, when they tend to try hard to look as chavvy as they can!

I was on a train from Doncaster to London once (East Coast). A group of black uniformed men got on and I assumed they were BTP looking for someone or on their way to sort something out, as they were also wearing fluorescents. Nope, they were RPOs.