Unprinted ticket through TVM fault

[WestCountry]

Yesterday I bought an open return from the ticket machine at an unstaffed TfW station.

The outward part was printed as normal, but the machine failed to print the return part displaying the error pictured.
There was no indication of any problem until halfway through printing and my card had already been charged the full return fare.

On arrival at a TfW station with a staffed ticket office I asked for them to print the missing return part, or to refund the incomplete ticket and sell a new one.
I showed the attached picture, the printed half of the ticket, and evidence that the payment had gone through in full.

The ticket office attendant flatly refused to do either of those, stating that "I can only refund with both parts of the ticket" despite understanding and believing me that only one half of the ticket had been printed.

His only (repeated) suggestion was to buy a new ticket and attempt to claim the money back through TfW's online claims, which I refused to do.
If he was unwilling to correct it despite clear evidence in person, I wasn't going to trust remote call centre staff "within 20 working days" later.

He then kept trying to hand the ticket back to me in a 'case closed' manner which I wouldn't accept either. Eventually (10-15 minutes of fairly repetitive argument) he called a manager and issued me a stamped written note endorsing the outward part for use in both directions.

In principle I'm happy with that outcome, although I haven't made the return journey yet so whether it produces further hassle remains to be seen.

My question is: what should have been the correct procedure?
If a TVM takes my money but doesn't print all the tickets paid for, I should surely be entitled to a refund or correction, and requiring a lengthy online claims process to get a refund for a physical transaction seems wrong.

 

[fandroid]

I agree, it's ridiculous. Staffed ticket offices should be able and empowered to help, on the spot, with all ticketing problems. Otherwise, they're just TVMs with blood circulating.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

On arrival at a TfW station with a staffed ticket office I asked for them to print the missing return part, or to refund the incomplete ticket and sell a new one.

I showed the attached picture, the printed half of the ticket, and evidence that the payment had gone through in full.

The ticket office attendant flatly refused to do either of those, stating that "I can only refund with both parts of the ticket" despite understanding and believing me that only one half of the ticket had been printed.

His only (repeated) suggestion was to buy a new ticket and attempt to claim the money back...

That seems to fly in the face of the message on the TVM.

So, what is, or at least should have been, the correct "We can help you at our ticket office" procedure in the circumstances?

 

[voyagerdude220]

This happens alot at the Station I work at. (We have a Ticket Office and several TVMs)

Sadly in the scenario you describe (at my TOC) there's nothing we can do about partially issued tickets and usually when the TVM has detected the error and displays the error message as per your attachment, the payment is automatically refunded to the customer (but annoyingly this isn't immediate and often takes a few working days depending on your card issuer).

At least when a transaction has partially printed (but not refunded/shown an error message etc.) we can sometimes either stamp a ticket or issue a zero fare, although personally I'd prefer something more formal/official looking to give to customers in this scenario.

 

[Vexed]

At least when a transaction has partially printed (but not refunded/shown an error message etc.) we can sometimes either stamp a ticket or issue a zero fare, although personally I'd prefer something more formal/official looking to give to customers in this scenario.

The St Albans City ticket office has done this before to me when the TVM decided to give me a completely blank coupon for a ToD collection. They stapled it to the coupon that did print properly so pretty useless for ticket barriers.

 

[saismee]

This happens alot at the Station I work at. (We have a Ticket Office and several TVMs)

Sadly in the scenario you describe (at my TOC) there's nothing we can do about partially issued tickets and usually when the TVM has detected the error and displays the error message as per your attachment, the payment is automatically refunded to the customer (but annoyingly this isn't immediate and often takes a few working days depending on your card issuer).

At least when a transaction has partially printed (but not refunded/shown an error message etc.) we can sometimes either stamp a ticket or issue a zero fare, although personally I'd prefer something more formal/official looking to give to customers in this scenario.

This is always resolved at my station (also with a ticket office and multiple TVMs) by the ticket office staff. I can't remember exactly how they resolve it, but they do.

 

[father_jack]

Watch your bank account- you may find the money will come back. There's a system in some of the TVMs where if after authorisation the machine fails it returns the payment.

 

[voyagerdude220]

Watch your bank account- you may find the money will come back. There's a system in some of the TVMs where if after authorisation the machine fails it returns the payment.

Yes, I usually find when the TVM has detected the error and displayed an error message, it automatically refunds the payment back to the card. Annoyingly I've had this happen before where the customer has been unable to pay again because of the TVM withholding the original transaction on their card.

However if it's simply a case of the TVM thinking it's issued everything but it hasn't/it has but it hasn't printed properly, it will still charge the customer.

 

[Snow1964]

I have had similar ran out of tickets so failed to print some, when doing a cross London journey (which is why I was collecting ordered tickets).

Luckily I had gone to collect them couple of days early, so was able to go to ticket office following day (when it reopened) and they printed the remainder using the order code.

There is only one TVM at my local station, so no one could buy tickets for rest of the day as the TVM had switched to out of order message after about 30seconds, and ticket office closes lunchtime.

 

[Bread & cheese]

When I was a ticket clerk, the OP's problem used to occur now and then.
Our standard procedure was to non-issue (refund) the part-printed ticket, then sell a new one.
With S&B TVMs, what the machine did:
No ticket printed - customer not charged
Half a return printed - customer charged for the return.

 

[sheff1]

So, what is, or at least should have been, the correct "We can help you at our ticket office" procedure in the circumstances?

Before he could drive my son a had a string of tickets to collect. A full set for him to travel down and back to collect a grandson, another set for the grandson to travel up to us and back, with a third set for the son to take the child back and then return.

Can't recall how many tickets in total (probably at least 40) but one failed to print. The normally recaltriant bookig office at Sheffield cancelled all the tickets which had printed and then reprinted the whole lot - if they can do it I would have exepcted anyone could, but clearly not.

 

[cool110]

Can't recall how many tickets in total (probably at least 40) but one failed to print. The normally recaltriant bookig office at Sheffield cancelled all the tickets which had printed and then reprinted the whole lot - if they can do it I would have exepcted anyone could, but clearly not.

The difference is that with ToD collection the order is still in the database to be pulled up, so such thing for tickets sold directly by the TVM.

 

[plugwash]

I don't know if it's standard procedure, but when I had this happen (IIRC at letchworth) the ticket office issued a zero-fare excess.

 

[WestCountry]

Yes, I usually find when the TVM has detected the error and displayed an error message, it automatically refunds the payment back to the card.

As of 24h later it hasn't, will keep an eye out in case it does later.

That seems to fly in the face of the message on the TVM. So, what is, or at least should have been, the correct "We can help you at our ticket office" procedure in the circumstances?

I did make that point!
And had the same question, hence the thread

 

[Starmill]

And people say we should keep ticket offices... This is exactly the sort of situation where they're supposed to be providing a benefit.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Nov 2025 ==

Yes, I usually find when the TVM has detected the error and displayed an error message, it automatically refunds the payment back to the card. Annoyingly I've had this happen before where the customer has been unable to pay again because of the TVM withholding the original transaction on their card.

However if it's simply a case of the TVM thinking it's issued everything but it hasn't/it has but it hasn't printed properly, it will still charge the customer.

The message on the screen in this case isn't ambiguous, it states the card was charged even though some of the ticket hasn't printed.

 

[voyagerdude220]

The message on the screen in this case isn't ambiguous, it states the card was charged even though some of the ticket hasn't printed.

Yes I agree it isn't ambiguous. The problem here is the delay the customer will have in receiving their refund for the incorrectly [none] issued tickets.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Nov 2025 ==

And people say we should keep ticket offices... This is exactly the sort of situation where they're supposed to be providing a benefit.

I'd very much prefer to be in a position where I'm able to help the customer more in this scenario. [besides if I was, it would reduce the probability of them understandably venting their frustration towards me!]

 

[sheff1]

The difference is that with ToD collection the order is still in the database to be pulled up, so such thing for tickets sold directly by the TVM.

That makes sense.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
We still seems to be missing an explanation of what "We can help you at our ticket office" is supposed to mean should happen there. Perhaps TfW should be asked. The actions of the ticket office as described in the OP seem to be anything but helpful.

 

[Llandudno]

I recently had a similar issue at Matlock.
Tried to collect tickets from the solitary TVM at Matlock and the machine froze before issuing my tickets.
Waited 10 minutes but no luck so phoned customer services at EMR, ‘Jamie’ (!) after I had to spell MATLOCK five times to him suggested I go to the ticket office at Matlock Station - trouble is it closed in 1968!