Unlooping the Sutton Loop

[SouthCentral10]

Would it be possible to split services up on the Sutton Loop?

If Crossrail 2 goes ahead and Wimbledon station is rebuilt, could the District line potentially be extended to Sutton over this section of the line, as was the original plan by the District Railway in the 1910s?

The current Thameslink services could be diverted to terminate at Sutton (or perhaps Epsom) giving that branch 4tph. Haydon's road and Tooting could be served by a Southern London Bridge stopper, or an extension of the Tram?

I'd be interested to know everyone's thoughts.

 

[JonathanH]

If Crossrail 2 goes ahead and Wimbledon station is rebuilt, could the District line potentially be extended to Sutton over this section of the line, as was the original plan by the District Railway in the 1910s?

Crossrail 2 is so far away for consideration of this point - clearly the District line is on the opposite side of the formation to the Sutton line so you would need to find some way to get Crossrail 2 trains from the North side to the South side of the station at the same time as you are trying to do the opposite with the District line. That is a massive rebuild.

I think you also have to consider whether this is the best way to add capacity on the Sutton loop, especially if few people are going to make through journeys between Sutton / Merton and the Fulham area. If they are just going to change at Wimbledon, there seems to be absolutely no point.

The current Thameslink services could be diverted to terminate at Sutton (or perhaps Epsom) giving that branch 4tph. Haydon's road and Tooting could be served by a Southern London Bridge stopper, or an extension of the Tram.

I am not sure Sutton station could really be set up for more terminating trains from both Blackfriars and Wimbledon and maintain a through service to Epsom.

I'd be interested to know everyone's thoughts.

I don't think this is the best way to provide additional capacity (if it is even needed on the particular routes).

 

[mr_jrt]

The question is how you can remove conflicts, and if you could somehow push the District through Wimbledon to reach the Sutton branch (I suspect the only workable option nowadays being to build some grade separation north of the station and have it take over the Thameslink platforms), the absolute best you could manage at the southern end would be a new pair of platforms on the other side of the road bridge from the existing Sutton platforms, short of pulling down the whole area to start from scratch. In an ideal world you could segregate the line from Croydon to Epsom Downs (LO extension from West Croydon?) from the line to Mitcham to Cheam, those changes eliminate all of the junctions, so you would end up with pretty much the most you could get.

 

[JonathanH]

What problem are we trying to solve by sending the District line to Sutton?

 

[MarkyT]

I think you also have to consider whether this is the best way to add capacity on the Sutton loop, especially if few people are going to make through journeys between Sutton / Merton and the Fulham area. If they are just going to change at Wimbledon, there seems to be absolutely no point.

For a more spectacular step-change in capacity and convenience, the Wimbledon - Sutton line might be incorporated into Crossrail 2, with fast direct journeys to central London instead of the slow trundle via Herne Hill today, or via Earls Court if connected to the District. There are some Wimbledon CR2 terminators envisaged which might be extended. CR2 will need some grade separation to the west of Wimbledon anyway, so a minimum conflict junction to and from Sutton seems plausible.

I am not sure Sutton station could really be set up for more terminating trains from both Blackfriars and Wimbledon and maintain a through service to Epsom.
I don't think this is the best way to provide additional capacity (if it is even needed on the particular routes).

At Sutton, the connection to the Epsom line would be better severed and a small new terminus established to the west of the current station on the site of the current junction and part of the approaching gradient, with its own entrance and connecting passageways to the Epsom line platforms. A bigger development might incorporate parts of the Sutton post office site. The remaining stubs of the former Thameslink loop would become two separate branches, which should be more resilient with conventional terminal layovers. One would terminate at Wimbledon, the other would extend through Sutton towards Epsom, perhaps terminating at the mooted centre turnback facility in Cheam.

 

[swt_passenger]

What problem are we trying to solve by sending the District line to Sutton?

Probably the traditional misbalance on the tube map, caused by the existence of earlier proper railways. So anything that extends LU must be a “good thing” no matter if it’s too difficult to engineer...

 

[Sad Sprinter]

As another citizen of South Central land I too have wondered about this. But sadly I think the works needed would be very complex for little gain, I think the best thing so far is the Tramlink extension down that way.