Unknown Railway Artifacts

[edwin_m]

There was actually a concrete slab factory nearby. This link http://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/side...t=52.8600&lon=-1.2083&layers=10&right=BingHyb I posted up thread shows the location. I believe it was used for something or other during the war.

Perhaps even "home made" as an attempt to diversify into railway sleepers?

 

[randyrippley]

Its a long shot, but I think you may have found the remains of a WWII experiment to find a replacement for wooden sleepers (wood was needed for pit props and urgent construction at the time)

From: "The railway sleeper: 50 years of pretensioned, prestressed concrete H.I.J.Taylor, BScTech, PhD, FEng, FIStructE, FICE Costain Building Products LtD"
http://htaylorfreng.com/wp-content/uploads/11-1-Taylor17893.pdf

"In 1941 two designs of reinforced concrete sleepers were produced by the
Chief Civil Engineer’s Department of the London Midland and Scottish
Railway, and some were made and put in a branch line near Derby. The
results were inconclusive, but experience was gained in strain measurement
and the difficulties of carrying out research on real track that was to prove
valuable in the future."

Gotham isn't that far from Derby, and the illustration (Fig 3) in the review shows untied blocks very similar in size and nature to those in the photo.
Also the author quotes an earlier paper (from 1946) which appears to be discussing these untied sleepers:
"A point to be noted about the sleepers described by the authors was that they were entirely without stirrups or transverse reinforcement." - which seems to match those blocks.
Unproven, but very interesting

 

[Flying Phil]

A fascinating paper by Mr Taylor....I have learnt a lot more about the humble sleeper.... and industrial archeology in the internet age!

 

[randyrippley]

If I'm right, and these are the world's (or at least the UK's) first concrete sleepers, shouldn't they be lifted and put in the NRM?
Where they are they are going to get buried / lost or destroyed if/when the route is developed as a path or whatever

 

[randyrippley]

and just another thought - does anyone have access to that 1946 report in the Journal of the Society of Engineers? That may prove the case

Barker, R. S. V., Lester, D. R.: ‘The development and manufacture of prestressed concrete units’, Society of Engineers, May 1946, pp41-75 discussion contribution, Henzell, J. S.

 

[randyrippley]

further digging suggests this reference may give the details, if anyone has access:

Anon, Prestressed Concrete Sleepers, Concrete Constr. Engng. 41, 168-170, June 1946

its listed as a reference in this paper http://www-civ.eng.cam.ac.uk/cjb/papers/cp70.pdf

 

[Llanigraham]

Using this map, linked above,
http://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/side...t=52.8640&lon=-1.2094&layers=10&right=BingHyb
and going back to the position mentioned in the first post of this thread, there is an "item" marked on the map, starting on the vertical grid line to the east of the large G, heading in a north easterly direction, crosses the extant rail line and then immediately heads north for a short distance. (On the photo it follows the hedge line from what looks like a long roofed building, but is actually bales, towards the new road.) All the OP's photos seem to be taken on the short, north facing part.

If you compare the map with the side-by-side photo the wood widens where the "track" runs north, and the field boundary immediatly beyond forms a rough triangle that is now wooded. Could there have been a short siding here for loading?

On current Google Street View there appears to be something at roughly the same area and there is a part metalled track running down the hedge line, near the new road.

From looking at the latest photographs (Thank you) I would say that those are not sleepers. With a 6' gap they are too far apart, and from the photos not directly in line, which they would need to be. The thin metal that remains on them looks "wrong" for holding stone sleepers in gauge, and in the wrong place; I suggest that if that is what they were they would be on the bottom not the top.

I do wonder, considering what is shown on that map, and the closeness of it's western end of the above "track" to Winser's Mine whether this could have been a conveyor of some kind, and that the short north facing end a loading facility.
Could it have actually gone under the railway line?
Or could the blocks have been the supports for some type of a loading platform for this possible siding and the "track" have been just that for road wagons?

All very interesting. I love things like this!

 

[edwin_m]

That looks quite likely to me. The same feature, excepting the northern bit, also appears on the pre-1914 25-inch mapping. If it was a conveyor I think it would have gone up and over the railway rather than burrowing underneath.

 

[Llanigraham]

Looking at other features along the branch I now wonder whether it was just a track for normal wheeled wagons from the Winsers Mine to a small loading ramp, with a "level crossing" over the branch. That certainly seems to be what was at the other loading area around the Slab Works.

Interesting I can find nothing about any of the mines directly in that area. Aditnow only lists the Marbleagis Gypsum Mine at East Leake and only has historical photos.

 

[Steveoh]

Looking at other features along the branch I now wonder whether it was just a track for normal wheeled wagons from the Winsers Mine to a small loading ramp, with a "level crossing" over the branch. That certainly seems to be what was at the other loading area around the Slab Works.

Interesting I can find nothing about any of the mines directly in that area. Aditnow only lists the Marbleagis Gypsum Mine at East Leake and only has historical photos.

I've been out and about and have read the posts with interest. I'm not really able to give a substantial reply at the moment. Some points. I don't think the track bed is wide enough for more than a single line. I'm not entirely sure when the mines went out of use. I'm pretty sure the Weldon mine closed in the 60's. The mine nearer to East Leake was still open in the 80's. I briefly went down that when in the cubs. I'm not sure when the Winsers Mine closed. There's probably more info here https://gothamvillage.org.uk/gotham-history/.

As an aside I had the fortunate experience of a tour around the Marbleagis mine last year (fascinating). I'll try and have another nosy around tomorrow and see what else I can see.

 

[DelW]

The alternating short/long spacings, and the nature of the cast-in bolts and metalwork, suggests to me that these might have been supports for a line of steel frames or small towers carrying a conveyor system. There are systems which come pre-assembled in short lengths which can be linked, extended and moved as needed - see here for a lighter modern version:
http://www.miniveyor.com/miniveyor.html.
I could imagine that being set up on frames mounted on blocks such as those in the photos, bearing in mind that steel ones would have been rather heavier.

The British Gypsum mine in Sussex uses a 3-mile long conveyor to link its mine with its factory, replacing an overhead cableway which I remember seeing when holidaying in the area in the 1960s. See details of this system here:
http://www.globalgypsum.com/magazine/articles/660-british-gypsum-brightling

The British Gypsum Brightling mine, near the Robertsbridge wallboard plant in East Sussex, has been in operation since the early 1960s. In the 1970s and 1980s it supplied up to 0.8Mt/yr of gypsum to the Robertsbridge wallboard plant, first via an aerial ropeway system and then a 4.7km-long conveyor, which was installed in 1989..... The Continental Conveyor-supplied conveyor replaced an earlier aerial ropeway system in 1989 and was installed by Fairport Engineering.

So I should think it's quite likely that gypsum mines of years ago might have used a similar (but cruder and uncovered) conveyor for linking their various shafts to factories or to road or rail loading points.

 

[edwin_m]

Gypsum is water-soluble, so presumably wouldn't go on an open conveyor. But I do agree a covered one is a possibility.

 

[randyrippley]

The mines closed as a direct result of the flue gas desulphurisation at Drax power station, which was implemented in stages 1988-1996.
However, despite the mines closing, the nearby East Leake processing plant remains open, supplied by Drax
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drax_power_station#Flue_gas_desulphurisation
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id...onepage&q=drax sulphuric acid capture&f=false

 

[Steveoh]

The mines closed as a direct result of the flue gas desulphurisation at Drax power station, which was implemented in stages 1988-1996.
However, despite the mines closing, the nearby East Leake processing plant remains open, supplied by Drax
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drax_power_station#Flue_gas_desulphurisation
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=a-QDAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA14&lpg=PA14&dq=drax+sulphuric+acid+capture&source=bl&ots=61bMOKP6Jq&sig=B5_CyClcTUDI22mQbR1biOvdeQo&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjlsorNmIrZAhWEBsAKHX_CDhgQ6AEINzAG#v=onepage&q=drax sulphuric acid capture&f=false

East Leake isn’t really supplied by Drax. The mine is open and works 24hour shifts 5 days a week. The reason that Gypsum Way was built was to prevent lorries brining the DSG from Ratcliffe through Gotham village. British Gypsum part funded Gypsum way. In the end the DSG mainly came in by train. However the bulk of the Gypsum processed at East Leake is mined their. In fact the Gypsum in the ground has just the right level of impurity that it doesn’t need any refining. Also it is more or less self sufficient in water, capturing the water which sleeps through into the mine.

Gotham mine closed after the Gypsum ran out.

 

[Steveoh]

I’ve been out walking the other side of the branch today (over Leake Road) and I’ve found a few more remainders of the branch and some more concrete items. They look similar though not exactly the same (I think), however they are much closer to the main line. I shall try to post some of the pictures I’ve taken in due course, but it might be a few days.

 

[Steveoh]

Here's a photo taken from around where the line in between the T and H crosses the track - i.e. much closer back towards the main line and beyond the mines. It appears to be the same design and size. My conculsion is that they are some form of sleeper. I'll upload a few more pictures that I've taken in some subsequent posts. This one seemed the most significant to me.

 

[Steveoh]

I'm going to have to go back and look at this one more carefully. This might have a lot of the set up in the picture. See what you think.

Other pics from the branch line over Leake Road towards the mainline.



These are from Gypsum Way

 

[Llanigraham]

Big picture:
Those are rail chairs, but the one on the left is implausible as you would never have a vertical member that big so close to it.
The thin metal, with your glove, just look like light weight framing for something.

 

[Steveoh]

Big picture:
Those are rail chairs, but the one on the left is implausible as you would never have a vertical member that big so close to it.
The thin metal, with your glove, just look like light weight framing for something.

I’ll go and have another look at the bigger picture (to coin a phrase). I think the newer looking block might have just been placed on top. The one with my glove on, that’s what is attached to the objects in question. One of the earlier photos showed this, it’s shown as coming out of the ground towards the other concrete block. I think they linked the pair of concrete blocks together.

I think we have an outer thinnish metal bar linked the pair of concrete blocks together, and the inner bracket / bolt held the chair.

It needs to warm up outside.

 

[randyrippley]

If the old reports are correct, then the pairs of sleeper blocks will NOT be linked by a tie-bar.