Unit carriage numbers

[1018509]

Take a class of multiple unit; the class 444 for example.

Does unit 444 001, for example, keep the individual carriages in it's formation or are carriages swapped between units for maintenance purposes?

I assume that each end of 444 001 will always be the same but from my limited view there seems to be little connection between the numbering of intermediate carriages.

 

[Lrd]

Most units will keep their respective carriages. The only times I can think of where a unit will have a mixture of carriages is hybrids (FGW 158s) or a carriage long term/temporary failure on two units and they join the two good ones together.

 

[transportphoto]

En general, as Lewis says, they will stay together.

TP

 

[455driver]

This site lists all units and the coaches in them-

http://www.abrail.co.uk/

 

[61653 HTAFC]

On the subject, I always thought it was strange that single-car units such as 153s and 122s have vehicle numbers as well as 'set' numbers- i.e. 153311 is also 52311- Surely this could cause confusion somewhere...?

 

[12CSVT]

Most units will keep their respective carriages. The only times I can think of where a unit will have a mixture of carriages is hybrids (FGW 158s) or a carriage long term/temporary failure on two units and they join the two good ones together.

Even when units are misformed they usually revert back to their origional formations eventually.

 

[jopsuk]

On the subject, I always thought it was strange that single-car units such as 153s and 122s have vehicle numbers as well as 'set' numbers- i.e. 153311 is also 52311- Surely this could cause confusion somewhere...?

whilsr six digit numbers were a restriction of the original TOPS, a more logical numbering system would have a three digit class number, a three digit unit number and a two digit coach number - giving each vehicle a unique eight digit number. for some reason however TOPS ended up with five digit vehicle numbers- resulting in oddness with single carriage units.

 

[Crossover]

Take a class of multiple unit; the class 444 for example.

Does unit 444 001, for example, keep the individual carriages in it's formation or are carriages swapped between units for maintenance purposes?

I assume that each end of 444 001 will always be the same but from my limited view there seems to be little connection between the numbering of intermediate carriages.

As many others have said, the individual carriages tend to remain in the same formations within units.

What I'll add is that although some carriage numbers seem to bear no resemblance to the units they form (Pacers, 142's especially, seem to be a good example of this), others do (usually the newer ones)

Class 185 carriage numbers all have the last 2 digits ending with the unit number, for example.

The likes of the Pendos also did, but the 11 car ones will have the 2 new carriages with non-matching numbers, as they weren't numbered specifically to the units they would be inserted in, IIRC.

Even in sets where most of the carriage numbers make sense, some within a family don't. I think it is some of the 170 carriage numbers that don't follow the pattern as they would otherwise have clashed with carriage numbers from another unit (the joys that is of the system we are currently using, eh!)

 

[MCR247]

all have the last 2 digits ending with the unit number, for example.

The likes of the Pendos also did, but the 11 car ones will have the 2 new carriages with non-matching numbers, as they weren't numbered specifically to the units they would be inserted in, IIRC.

No I think they were given temporary numbers for the runs from the chunnel to Longsight but were then given numbers for the trains they were being inserted into?

 

[Crossover]

No I think they were given temporary numbers for the runs from the chunnel to Longsight but were then given numbers for the trains they were being inserted into?

Looking at the site linked above, I think you may be right. Logically it does make sense to do that.

When I was last on one of the 11 car sets, I have to say I didn't think to look

 

[83G/84D]

Aren't HST's classed as Multiple Unit's? FGW HST's rarely stay in the same carriage formations for more than a few days.

 

[jopsuk]

that's a can of worms- but the power cars and carriages were given numbers from the multiple unit ranges, yes, and originally it was intended that they would stay as fixed sets with a class 253/254 number.

 

[455driver]

Aren't HST's classed as Multiple Unit's? FGW HST's rarely stay in the same carriage formations for more than a few days.

HSTs were classed as multiple units when built but not now, the coaches normally stay in fixed formations but the power cars are loose.

The only time the coaches are reformed is if one is taken out for repairs and it is replaced by a spare coach, once the normal coach is repaired it will go back into its original set.
The buffets do seem to get mixed up a bit more than the seated coaches probably because there is more equipment on them to go wrong and a fault with the oven (for example) will get them swapped out.