Uniforms!

[3rd rail land]

You obviously need a good balance of decent quality materials, practicality, looking smart and being easily identifiable.

Shirts/polo shirts made of really cheap materials are likely to be really difficult to iron so will be creased and look messy. These items can easily be 100% cotton and still affordable for the TOC.
Are neck ties really necessary in this day and age? In fact the last time I wore a neck tie was January 2017 when I interviewed for my current employer. I think one can look very smart without a tie and at the same time will be more comfortable.
Polo shirts are certainly smart enough for non customer facing/operational grades, of which I include drivers, such as cleaners, control room staff etc.. especially if they are tucked in
I think an important part of the uniform is a hi-vis which makes it obviously to passengers that they are someone who they ask for help. Things like train dispatch, gateline, customer service, station manager etc...

As a passenger i'd be happy with customer facing staff wearing a shirt, jacket, black/grey/blue trousers, black shoes and no tie. Hi-vis where applicable and visible branding so people know the person is railway staff. Branded jumpers would also be ok for when the colder months. Obviously an equivalent for women but as a bloke I am not clued up on womenswear! Smart enough, comfortable for the wearer and won't look out of place in 2020.

For operational, non customer facing, staff practicality and hardiness are more important. It will depend on the individual role but for some polo shirts and hard wearing trousers such as cargo trousers and steel capped black shoes would be appropriate along with a fleece for colder times. Hi-vis and other PPE where appropriate.

 

[Gostav]

Good idea. And a campaign medal bar.

Let’s go the full Gadaffi:

View attachment 83384

(Picture shows either a dubious North African dictator in full military garb, or a very well dressed train driver)

I believe in many Eastern Europe countries, peak cap and the uniform still is a mark for the railway staff but truly becoming rare in Czechia these days and l don't think this style must be linked to militarism.

Foto: Štěpán Macháček

 

[MrEd]

On the topic of impressive looking uniforms, nothing will come close to those of Caledonian Sleeper.

In theory, yes, I would agree with you. It looks very impressive in the staged photos on their website and in their promotional material. However, it is definitely not a practical uniform for the long shifts (which involve a lot of walking through narrow corridors as well as standing outside on cold, wet platforms) that CS staff work (particularly not for the safety critical train managers). That Tweed-style fabric is designed to satisfy a tourist’s twee Highland fantasy, not the needs of a modern railway worker- it is very scratchy, and suffers from the double problem (so CS staff I know well tell me) of being too hot in summer but not warm enough in winter. A lot of the staff that I see regularly clearly don’t find it very comfortable and take liberties with it, to the point that it looks like a bit of a rag-bag. Some crews are probably better at keeping to the standards than others (the London and Aberdeen hosts that I’ve experienced don’t seem to care much for the standards; the Inverness and Fort William ones do slightly better but are not infallible), but it‘s just never struck me as being very practical. I think that’s a key issue. I very much sympathise with the staff here as these shifts are extremely long and wearing uncomfortable clothes can hardly help them.

I always think that the people who design the uniforms should be made to shadow TOC staff on their shifts. That way, they will have a clearer understanding of what staff needs and priorities are day-to-day. I don’t think the person who designed the CS uniform (or the GWR one for that matter, or the Connex one of the late 90s) had much sense of practicality. I also fear that CS in particular have gone a wee bit too far down the ’twee and touristy’ route.

Personally, I (and a lot of other rail passengers, I’m sure) couldn’t care less what rail staff wear as long as it doesn’t impact their ability to run a safe and punctual service. I couldn’t care less whether the guard on the 08:19 Cambridge to Norwich was dressed like he was attending a state funeral or a shift at a garden centre, as long as the train gets me there on time and in one piece, and the staff are easily identifiable. What surely matters is that staff have the right clothing and PPE to fulfil safety critical duties, and feel comfortable so that they can concentrate on their essential duties.

 

[DorkingMain]

Shirts/polo shirts made of really cheap materials are likely to be really difficult to iron so will be creased and look messy. These items can easily be 100% cotton and still affordable for the TOC.
Are neck ties really necessary in this day and age? In fact the last time I wore a neck tie was January 2017 when I interviewed for my current employer. I think one can look very smart without a tie and at the same time will be more comfortable.

These two problems often end up combining - wear a rubbish, cheap shirt with a rubbish, cheap tie and you end up spending 9 hours a day on duty feeling like you're being choked.

 

[GatwickDepress]

There seem to be a lot of false binaries on this thread! Is this really the choice? Obviously a uniform should be good quality and practical whatever style it's in. If people are suggesting that it's too expensive to produce formal uniforms that are *also* good quality then include me on the casual side of the argument. If you look on EMR's employee twitter feed (@weareEMR), it looks like they've been doing a lot of in-house focus groups to try and get the balance right. Let's hope they don't cut corners when it comes to manufacturing.

I was primarily being tongue in cheek with my post, but you are absolutely correct about the false binary.

I hope EMR's uniforms will be successful, but given the track records of most other companies, I'm pessimistic enough to expect them to be manufactured on the cheap with all the concessions for practicality, neatness, and durability that entails; looking great in staged photo shoots, but being woeful in reality. I do hope I'm proved wrong!

 

[dk1]

Thankfully on GA us drivers have been able to choose between a uniform that includes a tie & one that doesn't. That was one of the better descisions in the last 9 years as I detest wearing the darn things. Keeps everyone happy that way.

 

[Meerkat]

Repeating my earlier point, the very least that could be done is get properly sized and branded hi-vis for platform staff. How much can hi vis cost, bearing in mind it’s the most obvious aspect of the wearer’s attire?!
Sometimes you get builders on their way home looking smarter than the platform people in big flappy vests. If they are wearing uniform underneath then it can’t be that difficult to spec hi vis vests that match the uniform sizes.
There is a repairs and alterations place in our town centre that isnt that pricey......

 

[CyrusWuff]

Repeating my earlier point, the very least that could be done is get properly sized and branded hi-vis for platform staff. How much can hi vis cost, bearing in mind it’s the most obvious aspect of the wearer’s attire?

Under £2 when bought in bulk...probably slightly more for branded items.

 

[Bigfoot]

I would love a uniform that was smart and I felt proud to look after, but sadly the shirts arent long enough, trousers are hilariously tailored and the jackets are made of tissue paper. Even if I try hard it still looks terrible purely because it is.

 

[Skoodle]

Polo shirts! Couldn't think of anything worse. Look scruffy and horrid material. Wouldn't want to be seen wearing one whilst shopping in Waitrose never mind working an Intercity train!

It amazes me how some fellow rail staff seem almost offended about the idea of having to wear a suit. We are paid well and can at least put some effort into looking the part. Uniform policies are hardly strict on the railway. Look at Ryanair their staff are paid a pittance and their uniform policy is a hell of a lot stricter than any TOC.

Obviously if work for a TOC that still has units that are not air conditioned in the middle of summer then something like a short sleeve order / ties off order should be made by the duty control manager and and staff can remove their ties (provided they are wearing a short sleeve shirt).

We have a mix of uniform options at ours. Shirt & tie (with union agreement that ties can come off as soon as you enter the cab), shirts used to be white, but changed to dark blue due to complaints about reflections in DOO monitors. We also have polo shirts too. We have the option of thin or thick trousers or shorts. Thankfully our TOC understands that we as safety critical staff need to be comfortable in our work environment so we can choose what suits us best. Comfort of staff whilst at work trumps passenger's views.

 

[Stigy]

I would love a uniform that was smart and I felt proud to look after, but sadly the shirts arent long enough, trousers are hilariously tailored and the jackets are made of tissue paper. Even if I try hard it still looks terrible purely because it is.

Nothing worse than terribly tailored trousers, especially if you’re a funny shape like me (short legs)

 

[L401CJF]

I work for a well known bus company, so relevant but not at the same time! In our workplace we have the option to order black polo shirts, or blue shirts. We have a max allocation , i think 6 tops, 2 trousers, 1 coat,1 jacket, plus thermal hat, gloves etc.

You can fill the whole top allocation with polos, or shirts, or a mix. I personally opt for a mix. A tie is also optional.The mahority of our drivers wear polos, those who wear shirts approx 5% wear a tie. You can also opt for a formal jacket (blazer) but again only 3 or so out of 200 odd drivers wear a blazer. To be honest, a lot of our staff look a right mess, half the buttons undone, shirts untucked, never ironed..

I generally wear a polo as they dont need ironing usually, and are much comfier to wear whilst sat in a stuffy cab for 5hours at a time. I do occasionally like to wear a shirt and tie as I feel much smarter and professional wearing it, however it gets quite uncomfy with the tie done up and constantly having to adjust the shirt, retucking etc over the course of a 10hr shift. Last year they did a limited edition extra were they offered white shirts with epaulettes. I do like to wear it, but again the polo is just easier and much more comfortable.

When i worked at Stagecoach bus going back a few years, shirt/tie were the only option, with a tie being compulsory between September and April, and optional over the summer - except for the Gold service routes, were a tie was mandatory all year round unless management gave notice in exceptional circumstances - ie a heatwave.

Do I think customer facing staff should wear more formal looking uniform over a polo etc? Yes I do. I understand the argument for not wearing shirt and tie for comfort and so on, as I am in the same boat, but if polo wasnt an option and shirt and tie were mandatory, I wouldnt have any complaints personally.

I think Merseyrails uniform with the waistcoat looks very professional.

 

[Stigy]

I generally wear a polo as they dont need ironing usually, and are much comfier to wear whilst sat in a stuffy cab for 5hours at a time. I do occasionally like to wear a shirt and tie as I feel much smarter and professional wearing it, however it gets quite uncomfy with the tie done up and constantly having to adjust the shirt, retucking etc over the course of a 10hr shift.

Do I think customer facing staff should wear more formal looking uniform over a polo etc? Yes I do. I understand the argument for not wearing shirt and tie for comfort and so on, as I am in the same boat, but if polo wasnt an option and shirt and tie were mandatory, I wouldnt have any complaints personally.

You think customer facing staff should wear a more formal uniform and have the option at your place of work, but usually chose not to wear the formal uniform you think customer facing staff should be made to wear?

 

[Alex27]

I personally love my GWR uniform, it's surprisingly comfortable and you can wear anything from just a shirt and tie to waistcoat and jacket

 

[Inthewest]

The thing is, I think times *are* changing, but back towards a more formal style.

What experience are you drawing this conclusion from?

Everywhere I go, be it McDonald's or a cash and carry, uniforms are getting more casual.

Just the other day I saw a few suit wearing people... no ties.

Maybe those in the banking world of London still like ties, but elsewhere it's different.
Turned up to my last job interview with no tie, got the job.

As someone else said, smart does not have to be formal.

 

[Meerkat]

As someone else said, smart does not have to be formal.

Sure, but it’s a lot more likely that formal will be smart - give your staff polo shirts and there will be plenty that look very scruffy and very hard to define why and discipline it.

 

[Qwerty133]

As someone who has never worked in the rail industry but has experience with uniforms more generally I'd plan on a top half that could be combined with just about any black formal trousers or skirt, as the number of different options and fits needed to have something that both looks smart on and is comfortable for all of those wearing it will often be almost as large as the number of individual employees*. With this in mind I'd offer the choice of short or long sleeved polo shirts in a wide range of sizes that could be worn with nothing on top of them or under thin waterproof or winter jackets, or a more formal option of long sleeved shirt (offered in both standard and slim fit), tie, and blazer (again offered in both standard and slim fit) which again could be combined with a waterproof jacket where the weather deems it necessary. I would also offer branded scarves and woolly hats for use in winter as well as hijabs in the same colour as the polo shirts for employees wishing to wear them.
*Humans tend to come in a wide variety of shapes and sizes and what looks smart on some often does not on others so it makes no sense to simply expect everyone to wear trousers or skirts that are tailored in the same way, as this would cause ill fitting uniform for many, and various implications may well mean some employees would favour a baggier fit or a ankle length skirt while others feel more comfortable in closer fitting and more tailored clothing and skirts of a shorter, while still appropriate length.

 

[L401CJF]

You think customer facing staff should wear a more formal uniform and have the option at your place of work, but usually chose not to wear the formal uniform you think customer facing staff should be made to wear?

As strange as it sounds, yes. I wear a polo 80% of the time because its easier to just throw on a polo. In my previous position at Stagecoach we were forced to wear the shirt and tie, I had no issue with it, and as a result the staff looked smarter and more professional. Where I work now, there is a mix of staff wearing old issue blue polos, new issue black ones, blue shirts, blue shirts with tie, white shirts, white shirts with tie.. there is no consistancy. I choose to wear the polo 80% of the time because it is an option and is just easier - no ironing, more comfortable. I do prefer to wear a shirt and tie (special issue white with epps for me ) as it does make me feel better in myself. If the company turned around tomorrow and said thats it, no more polos, I would have no issue with it.

 

[philthetube]

As strange as it sounds, yes. I wear a polo 80% of the time because its easier to just throw on a polo. In my previous position at Stagecoach we were forced to wear the shirt and tie, I had no issue with it, and as a result the staff looked smarter and more professional. Where I work now, there is a mix of staff wearing old issue blue polos, new issue black ones, blue shirts, blue shirts with tie, white shirts, white shirts with tie.. there is no consistancy. I choose to wear the polo 80% of the time because it is an option and is just easier - no ironing, more comfortable. I do prefer to wear a shirt and tie (special issue white with epps for me ) as it does make me feel better in myself. If the company turned around tomorrow and said thats it, no more polos, I would have no issue with it.

For bus drivers more comfortable equates to less tiredness, less stress and a safer ride.

 

[Qwerty133]

As strange as it sounds, yes. I wear a polo 80% of the time because its easier to just throw on a polo. In my previous position at Stagecoach we were forced to wear the shirt and tie, I had no issue with it, and as a result the staff looked smarter and more professional. Where I work now, there is a mix of staff wearing old issue blue polos, new issue black ones, blue shirts, blue shirts with tie, white shirts, white shirts with tie.. there is no consistancy. I choose to wear the polo 80% of the time because it is an option and is just easier - no ironing, more comfortable. I do prefer to wear a shirt and tie (special issue white with epps for me ) as it does make me feel better in myself. If the company turned around tomorrow and said thats it, no more polos, I would have no issue with it.

Coming from a passenger perspective if you are talking about the group I assume you are talking about, I imagine the major reason why you find a large number of drivers wearing the old issue polos is because they are the only one of the uniforms that look even slightly smart (at least when in the correct size and worn with suitable trousers or skirt, so not on the driver who wears one with a miniskirt and bright pink high viz vest or the driver who wears one that is about 3 sizes too big with leggings and ugg boots). The current issue blue shirts look as though they are made from material so thin that it'd be impossible to keep it looking smart for more than about 5 minutes, and the current polos wouldn't look out of place in the 90s.

 

[tracksider]

What experience are you drawing this conclusion from?

Everywhere I go, be it McDonald's or a cash and carry, uniforms are getting more casual.

Just the other day I saw a few suit wearing people... no ties.

Maybe those in the banking world of London still like ties, but elsewhere it's different.
Turned up to my last job interview with no tie, got the job.

As someone else said, smart does not have to be formal.

I was speaking in the context of the railways. I think you're right about wider employers. Anyway, perhaps I'm wrong about there being a new trend towards formal on the railways, maybe the odd changes to more formal uniforms just gets more coverage. GWR's uniform got press releases, articles and a slot at a fashion show, whereas there wasn't a whisper about Chiltern's new and more casual look that I learned about on this thread.

I would be genuinely interested to see any market research on what the public's preferences are and if TOCs even do market research on this. Probably safe to say it's quite far down peoples' priorities, but I'm sure most people have an opinion one way or the other. Generally, trends are unpredictable -- I never thought I'd see the mullet making a comeback but here we are https://metro.co.uk/2020/09/11/feeling-brave-heres-how-to-make-a-mullet-work-for-you-13256570/

 

[al78]

What experience are you drawing this conclusion from?

Everywhere I go, be it McDonald's or a cash and carry, uniforms are getting more casual.

Just the other day I saw a few suit wearing people... no ties.

Maybe those in the banking world of London still like ties, but elsewhere it's different.
Turned up to my last job interview with no tie, got the job.

As someone else said, smart does not have to be formal.

To be honest I care little what staff are wearing, as long as they are doing their job properly. Function should be a priority over form.

 

[AndrewP]

I have specified uniforms a few times and my thoughts are as follows:

• Firstly the uniforms must be safe and comply with both legal and practical requirements
• Secondly the uniforms must be comfortable although you won't please everyone as there is an element of subjectivity - I agree with an earlier posts about the use of natural fibres and buying decent quality in the first place as this can save money as there will be less need for replacement
• Thirdly they must be practical and I always try to include staff consultation at this stage as I don't know their jobs and its wrong for me to presume so and will typically vary between customer facing and non-customer facing roles and should have some optional items

Beyond this it gets into branding and the image the company wishes to project and this can be complex and often relates as follows:

• Traditional and formal = expensive
• Casual and trendy = cheap

Finally, one of the biggest challenges is avoiding your own likes and dislikes which is easier said than done

 

[High Dyke]

Ah, the good old peaked cap, as worn by various unpleasant military dictators throughout much of modern history. Perhaps rail staff should also wear lashings of gold braid and jackboots?

Surely you cannot be serious?!

Didn't Stationmaster's, in the olden days, have that look and air about them?

I'm not one for wearing proper shirts much, and then only the short sleeve style. It's been over twenty years since I had to wear a shirt daily at work, as part of a uniform. Luckily these days I can have the choice of polo shirts, t-shirts or proper shirts; well that is if you can find them on the ordering system. Equally, depending on the job for the day, I have the pleasure of full orange PPE for the shift. So at least it's a coordinated uniform with many of my colleagues.

 

[tracksider]

I have specified uniforms a few times and my thoughts are as follows:

• Firstly the uniforms must be safe and comply with both legal and practical requirements
• Secondly the uniforms must be comfortable although you won't please everyone as there is an element of subjectivity - I agree with an earlier posts about the use of natural fibres and buying decent quality in the first place as this can save money as there will be less need for replacement
• Thirdly they must be practical and I always try to include staff consultation at this stage as I don't know their jobs and its wrong for me to presume so and will typically vary between customer facing and non-customer facing roles and should have some optional items

Beyond this it gets into branding and the image the company wishes to project and this can be complex and often relates as follows:

• Traditional and formal = expensive
• Casual and trendy = cheap

Finally, one of the biggest challenges is avoiding your own likes and dislikes which is easier said than done

Thanks Andrew, very good to hear from someone actually in the know on this. Re. the branding choices that inevitably affect the uniform, do you happen to know whether there is market research on this or do some higher-ups in the company basically just decide what they like?

 

[AndrewP]

Thanks Andrew, very good to hear from someone actually in the know on this. Re. the branding choices that inevitably affect the uniform, do you happen to know whether there is market research on this or do some higher-ups in the company basically just decide what they like?

It tends to be based on research on what the potential customer responds to / feels comfortable with and can include named designers (Ozwald Boateng designed the latest BA uniforms) and will be influenced by what customers buy. However, the taste of senior execs can play a part but its normally to reject ideas rather than say what something will be but they can sometimes impose their likes but it is very rare