Unhelpful "Help" point

[RJ]

I went to visit somebody in deepest Surrey recently. I intended to catch the 2343 from Weybridge to Clapham Junction. I checked the train's progress about 15 minutes before arrival at the station (I was given a lift) and all seemed to be well.

I was dropped off at the station and said goodbye. I descended to the platform to find the train had been cancelled due to a signalling problem at Wimbledon. The next and final London service was at 00:29 and I wasn't sure if it would run.

I logged on to an online live rail map and it was clear that my intended train towards London had been diverted and had passed through Addlestone. With no staff in sight, I went to the help point for assistance. I pressed the information button and explained that the train had been cancelled. I asked for advice on how to reach my destination.

I was told several times that the 2343 was on its way and was 5 minutes late at Byfleet and New Haw. Even when I said it had been cancelled, I was told the information screen was wrong and it was on its way. I explained that the train had been diverted to avoid Weybridge, but again I was told the train would be arriving soon and that no further help or advice was available.

As I was getting nowhere, I gave up and thanked them for their time. I didn't fancy taking my chances with the 0029, so I rang SWT on my mobile. It turned out the problem at Wimbledon was clearing. SWT kindly arranged for a Special Stop Order (SSO) of the next train due to pass through and those of us at Weybridge were picked up at 2359.

I'm very grateful to SWT for doing that and the crew for agreeing to the SSO. However, who answers the help point information calls and why aren't they in a position to provide useful assistance?

 

[TheEdge]

I'm pretty sure those help points connect standard calls, i.e not through the emergency button to the NRE call centre in India.

So there is your answer

 

[NLC1072]

I'm pretty sure those help points connect standard calls, i.e not through the emergency button to the NRE call centre in India.

So there is your answer

That's correct!

 

[The Ham]

I'm pretty sure those help points connect standard calls, i.e not through the emergency button to the NRE call centre in India.

So there is your answer

...so in short don't bother with the help points unless you just want to know fairly basic information.

 

[causton]

But SWT are tweeting that the calls connect directly to them! Perhaps it is only during certain hours NRE is used but I am sure they are saying "speak directly to our team by pressing the help point" or similar...

 

[A-driver]

But SWT are tweeting that the calls connect directly to them! Perhaps it is only during certain hours NRE is used but I am sure they are saying "speak directly to our team by pressing the help point" or similar...

The emergency button connects direct to the TOCs control room. The normal call button goes to India.

 

[causton]

"They are generally handled by our internal customer information team, but NRE do help out if we have problems." Response from EMT!

 

[CC 72100]

I'm pretty sure those help points connect standard calls, i.e not through the emergency button to the NRE call centre in India.

So there is your answer

I used one once, when the last train of the day kept disappearing off the screens, a train that was not known for it's reliability and so I was naturally a little concerned.

Response on the other end when I said where I was: "What's a Totnes?" "Is that a place?"

After explaining, she was unable to provide further information, and by the time we'd reached that point, the train came round the corner...

 

[cf111]

I have used a help point once, it was at Georgemas Junction and I was connected to a member of ScotRail staff in, I think, Paisley.

 

[sheff1]

I have used a help point once, it was at Georgemas Junction and I was connected to a member of ScotRail staff in, I think, Paisley.

The Scotrail help points are excellent. As well as connecting to someone who knows the railway geography of Scotland they also have the power to authorise alternative arrangements.

Elsewhere however ? ..... You might as well have no help point at all as one which connects you to people 1000s of miles away who are 100% clueless !

 

[WelshBluebird]

In my experience where you get put through to depends on the time of day. I believe at the ones on the South Wales Valley Lines stations go through to ATW during working hours (or did a year ago).

 

[Blindtraveler]

I think the emergency button would be the 1 I'd be mashing here TBH.

 

[Controller1701]

I'm very grateful to SWT for doing that and the crew for agreeing to the SSO.

As I have heard tales of conversations overheard, it is a special stop ORDER and not a special stop REQUEST

Paul

 

[Be3G]

The main thing I take away from this thread is the knowledge that TOC helplines might be open longer than standard office hours – if I'd been stuck in RJ's position it wouldn't have even occurred to me that SWT's customer services might still be taking calls.

 

[EM2]

Interesting. The help points at our station connect to the station control room, rather than a route control, which is remote from the location, with different ring tones for 'Help' and 'Emergency' calls. Is this unusual, or is it the norm for major stations?

 

[causton]

Interesting. The help points at our station connect to the station control room, rather than a route control, which is remote from the location, with different ring tones for 'Help' and 'Emergency' calls. Is this unusual, or is it the norm for major stations?

I know ours don't go anywhere near our station control room, probably to control but couldn't tell you myself, probably straight to India!

 

[noddingdonkey]

You would imagine that at a station that is staffed for the entire time it's open somebody on site could probably give better assistance than somebody in a remote call centre. I daresay that if the call isn't accepted within a number of rings by the local staff it could be diverted to the call centre.

 

[edwin_m]

It was Epsom Downs I think, circa 2001, where the help point just played a recorded message "the next train will terminate here". I would have thought that was fairly obvious from the buffer stop at the end of the platform. As there was no timetable poster or departures screen it was impossible to work out when the next train would be.

 

[hassaanhc]

I can't help but think if anyone from control would have noticed the large gap had RJ not phoned? One would hope that they would and add an additional call on another service without outside input, but you never know... :?. SWT's phone line is advertised as open 0600-2200 every day of the week, so I think he is also incredibly lucky having someone pick up some 100 minutes after that time, as well as not being aware of the timings in the first place . Can't think of many people who, knowing it was over an hour later than the advertised hours, would still phone. I know I wouldn't.

 

[JaJaWa]

It was Epsom Downs I think, circa 2001, where the help point just played a recorded message "the next train will terminate here". I would have thought that was fairly obvious from the buffer stop at the end of the platform. As there was no timetable poster or departures screen it was impossible to work out when the next train would be.

There's a couple of sound files from these style of help points here:

http://www.wymann.info/EpsomDowns/wav/BA-2005-09-30.wav

http://www.wymann.info/EpsomDowns/wav/ED-2005-10-01.wav

Source: http://www.wymann.info/EpsomDowns/newsouthern.html

 

[Mojo]

I think the emergency button would be the 1 I'd be mashing here TBH.

At many locations the emergency button goes through to the 999 operator.

I was told a story by a new member of staff working at a single manned station in the West Midlands that she was told to do her weekly checks as part of opening up one morning, but was not told what these actually involved. As the "Information" button on the help points at the station just replay automated information, she pressed the "Emergency" button and was rather embarrassed when the voice coming back asked what emergency service was required and was then told that it was the standard 999 line that you would get if you called from a landline

 

[A-driver]

At many locations the emergency button goes through to the 999 operator.

I was told a story by a new member of staff working at a single manned station in the West Midlands that she was told to do her weekly checks as part of opening up one morning, but was not told what these actually involved. As the "Information" button on the help points at the station just replay automated information, she pressed the "Emergency" button and was rather embarrassed when the voice coming back asked what emergency service was required and was then told that it was the standard 999 line that you would get if you called from a landline

That sounds unusual, this may have changed more recently. I know tht the help points on the gn route emergency button goes to control. We as drivers/staff working down there are told to use the emergency button if we wish to speak to SDC as we don't get phone signal down there.

 

[Altnabreac]

I have used a help point once, it was at Georgemas Junction and I was connected to a member of ScotRail staff in, I think, Paisley.

I often use the help points at Scotrail stations and staff are always really helpful and well informed.

I think you get put through to either Paisley or Dunfermline.

System seems to work well.

 

[lookapigeon]

I'm sure the SWT help points eventually phone a mobile phone if nobody picks up, as I used one of them a few years back and it just rang and rang, and eventually had a pause and then a woman from Vodafone saying "this person's phone is unavailable, please try later or send a text".

 

[LBSCR Times]

With Southern, both the Enquries and the Emergency call go through to their Control, and it is staffed 24/7. And it is linked to CCTV at most locations, so they can see who is pressing the button!

 

[Gathursty]

A regret of mine is not trying the Help Point on a Sunday at 9am two Summers ago in Altnabreac and seeing who'd reply and what they'd say. I'll just have to go back and find out!

 

[VTPreston_Tez]

I'm pretty sure those help points connect standard calls, i.e not through the emergency button to the NRE call centre in India.

So there is your answer

Happened to me at Par station too. The woman on the other end didn't even know that Par station existed until she looked it up.
Not good enough from NRE, but hey what can you do?

 

[RJ]

At the station I work at, both help point buttons go through to an employee at the TOC, no matter what time of day or night. I test it on my security checks.

I was surprised at the cluelessness of the person I spoke to at Weybridge and further surprised to hear it was routed to a call centre which was in no position to provide any useful information. "Must do better" is what I think about this and I will feed this back to SWT. I believe the station is unstaffed after 2040 so when the service is disrupted, the help point should be available to guide passengers or assist if they are stranded. To route help point calls to a call centre which is unable to help is irresponsible.

In my case I had other means of being resourceful, but then I do work for the railways. There were other passengers present who were pretty helpless, which isn't right.

I think the emergency button would be the 1 I'd be mashing here TBH.

I would say you've hit the nail on the head sir. However, it seems that it varies by TOC who the call goes through to - I wouldn't want to do so if it went through to 999 for example.

 

[plastictaffy]

As I have heard tales of conversations overheard, it is a special stop ORDER and not a special stop REQUEST

Paul

Only an ORDER with the correct paperwork. Sometimes a verbal REQUEST is made - it's up to the crew whether they accept it verbally or not.
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I can't help but think if anyone from control would have noticed the large gap had RJ not phoned?

The people in TOC control rooms - certainly within my TOC, have very little knowledge of the network they "control", and, to be honest, probably wouldn't notice if trains didn't run on a route all day.

 

[arabianights]

I would say you've hit the nail on the head sir. However, it seems that it varies by TOC who the call goes through to - I wouldn't want to do so if it went through to 999 for example.

I wouldn't be too concerned, if it did you could always apologize.

999 calls initially go through to an operator whose job is effectively to do nothing other than route it to the requested emergency service, or if in doubt, the police. So you would not be wasting emergency service's time by doing so.