• Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Understanding the ECML timetable

Status
Not open for further replies.

507020

Established Member
Joined
23 May 2021
Messages
1,983
Location
Southport
I recently made a journey from Edinburgh to Leeds which was my first time using the ECML north of York (and was then astounded that Northern had not cancelled any of the services I needed to get home from Leeds, but then I understand the service pattern of those) but this left me realising that I don’t have a clue how the ECML timetable works.

I was very disappointed to realise that between Newcastle and Leeds there are 2tph, with the TPE leaving 3 minutes after the XC most hours. Admittedly one continuing to Huddersfield, Manchester and Liverpool and the other to Wakefield, Sheffield (although this is not a satisfactorily efficient route from York, or even Leeds to Sheffield), Birmingham etc differentiates them, but could there have been any less of an attempt for them to be evenly spaced?

Most services from York of course continue to Doncaster and onto Kings Cross so as a starting point, how many paths out of Kings Cross are there, both now and as a few years ago, as several things have happened recently to increase this, including Kings Cross remodelling, Stevenage diveunder, Down Cambridge flyover, the Werrington diveunder and GN&GEJR resignalling, with the main bottleneck remaining being Newark flat crossing.

So the core LNER service is Kings Cross to Leeds and Edinburgh with various extensions, both of which I believe are 2tph, but there are then the open access services of Hull Trains, Grand Central and Lumo, on top of Thameslink, Great Northern and EMR Norwich services using the line at its southern end. LNER also serves Lincoln and I thought these went via Sleaford, but apparently that is not the case.

With various services leaving in Yorkshire, the service north of York is fundamentally different, with as I said XC and TPE joining LNER. There is also the Saltburn service leaving at Northallerton, Northern services crossing at Darlington and Newcastle and ScotRail using it towards Edinburgh.

I have also heard about issues regarding a new ECML timetable, but don’t actually know what these are or when this timetable is supposed to be introduced, including an LNER service to Middlesbrough which doesn’t seem to exist (I didn’t think it was possible to terminate at Middlesbrough, leading TPE to run to Redcar Central and then Saltburn). You may be able to tell that I am quite confused with the whole situation.
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

Segedunum

Established Member
Associate Staff
International Transport
Joined
22 Dec 2013
Messages
4,754
Location
Up North
The TPE from Newcastle to Liverpool used to leave around xx05 then the xx43 path was reserved for a slower Manchester service. There's still a couple of those paths getting used - IIRC the last Liverpool leaves at 2058 then there's a York at 2201.

Because TPE reduced their timetable - it reverted to everything running in the xx43 path and then sitting around in Manchester Victoria in an attempt to stitch what was previously two services together.
 

Magdalia

Established Member
Joined
1 Jan 2022
Messages
7,387
Location
The Fens
how many paths out of Kings Cross are there, both now and as a few years ago, as several things have happened recently to increase this, including Kings Cross remodelling, Stevenage diveunder, Down Cambridge flyover
At the south end the key constraints are paths through the 2 track sections Digswell-Woolmer Green and Holme-Fletton, plus platform capacity at Kings Cross. Capacity on the 2 track sections has not changed, Kings Cross actually lost a platform in the recent remodelling.

There was no new diveunder at Stevenage, only a new platform. This, together with the down Cambridge flyover, did create some new capacity on the down slow line. As a result it is now unusual for GN/Thameslink services to stay on the down fast at Woolmer Green, apart from the Cambridge Cruisers, which usually need to overtake the Brighton-Cambridge trains between Woolmer Green and Hitchin. There is a tiny bit of new capacity on the down fast at Hitchin because the turnout onto the down Cambridge flyover is 70mph whereas the old junction was 40mph. There is no new capacity in the up direction, the last important improvement there was the 70mph slow to fast crossover at Hitchin South, but this benefits the Cambridge Cruisers more than ECML trains.
 

43074

Established Member
Joined
10 Oct 2012
Messages
2,253
how many paths out of Kings Cross are there, both now and as a few years ago, as several things have happened recently to increase this, including Kings Cross remodelling, Stevenage diveunder, Down Cambridge flyover, the Werrington diveunder and GN&GEJR resignalling, with the main bottleneck remaining being Newark flat crossing.
Very crudely over the Welwyn viaduct there are:

2 x Cambridge fast
2 x Cambridge stopper
4 x fast line paths from the TL core (2 each to Cambridge/Peterborough)

10 x fast line paths - however it would be impossible to use all 10 for long distance paths because stopping patterns on the two track sections between Doncaster and Peterborough would soak up some of these, likewise they wouldn't fit at Kings Cross. The Access Rights awarded by the Office of Rail and Road for the East Coast recast allowed a maximum of 8 long distance paths per hour, however the continued deferral of the East Coast recast perhaps indicates even this is unrealistic.

In the peak there are a maximum of 6 long distance paths as the other 4 are (notionally) used by GN peak Peterborough and Letchworth route services however the latter haven't run since COVID but may make a comeback.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top