Unattended bags

[Intermodal]

Does anyone else feel like the unattended bag situation lately has got a bit silly? I been approached a number of times by station staff/BTP when I have left my bag less than 5 metres from my person while I stroll up and down a small area of platform as I wait for my train. When the BTP approached me, they actually insisted on searching my bag, despite me walking over and claiming responsibility for it as soon as they got anywhere near it.

Another example: twice I have been asked if my bag belonged to me while having it sat next to my seat on the tube, albeit not directly in front of me, but directly next to the side of the seat. Both times the passenger that asked me this started to look quite panicked at the thought that someone had luggage on a train. In my opinion: ridiculous!

All of this just seems so over the top when you consider that on most long distance services you are encouraged to leave your large luggage absolutely nowhere near you, in luggage racks at the centre or end of the coach. Why is this acceptable and encouraged - leaving my bag out of sight and unattended for hours - but leaving my bag on a platform or on the tube for a few minutes must mean it is a bomb!

 

[mallard]

I've even heard both "please place large items of luggage in the racks provided" and "please keep all luggage and personal belongings with you while on stations and trains" as part of the same long, rambling announcements that British TOCs love so much.

Without wanting to put too fine a point on it, recent attackers have done quite the opposite of leaving their bomb-laden bags "unattended". Of course you've got to give the BTP something to do while they "tour" (as if they're on holiday; the correct word is "patrol") stations 24 hours a day. Apparently having a bunch of men running around with machine guns is supposed to keep us "safe" somehow...

 

[gordonthemoron]

The point is they have to be seen to be doing something, however ineffective it actually is

 

[mpthomson]

I've even heard both "please place large items of luggage in the racks provided" and "please keep all luggage and personal belongings with you while on stations and trains" as part of the same long, rambling announcements that British TOCs love so much.

Without wanting to put too fine a point on it, recent attackers have done quite the opposite of leaving their bomb-laden bags "unattended". Of course you've got to give the BTP something to do while they "tour" (as if they're on holiday; the correct word is "patrol") stations 24 hours a day. Apparently having a bunch of men running around with machine guns is supposed to keep us "safe" somehow...

Unattended bags have been a frequent factor in IED explosions across the globe. Just because the most recent threats have been of a different type doesn't mean that we ignore previous types of attack, it just means that every new type is one more we need to mitigate against. We don't ignore all previous methods. The Boston Marathon device was in an unattended bag as a more recent example, as was the recent failed device on the Underground network.

Clearly you can only go so far regarding use of luggage racks in trains, but having this attitude on stations is a sensible precaution given the current threat level (which is easy to find online) and current threat evaluation (which is restricted in access). If you look at how a number of recent terror incidents have ended, including in London, then having armed police in specific locations makes a lot of sense. Some deployment may be intelligence based, others more routine and the majority of the travelling public feel reassured by the armed patrols.

I think a number of posters on this forum, both from this and other threads, are worryingly blase about the current risk of an incident, particularly an transport infrastructure based one.

 

[Clip]

Does anyone else feel like the unattended bag situation lately has got a bit silly? I been approached a number of times by station staff/BTP when I have left my bag less than 5 metres from my person while I stroll up and down a small area of platform as I wait for my train. When the BTP approached me, they actually insisted on searching my bag, despite me walking over and claiming responsibility for it as soon as they got anywhere near it.
!

And they would know you are not doing a test run to see how slack the security is at such a station how?

 

[D1009]

I'm mostly with the OP on this one. I can see the need for this at large stations, but when you get repeated announcements of this at small country stations, along with all the other safety/revenue protection stuff, as happens on GWR, not only does it annoy me, but it spoils the peace and tranquility that is so special at such places between trains. There have to be compromises between backside covering and common sense.

 

[Master29]

Sadly, I think it goes with the current climate. I was asked by a train driver at Temple Meads recently as I put my bag down and walked a few metres from it. It was no problem as he probably knew it was mine but felt he had to be sure. He was amicable so no problem really.

 

[mpthomson]

I'm mostly with the OP on this one. I can see the need for this at large stations, but when you get repeated announcements of this at small country stations, along with all the other safety/revenue protection stuff, as happens on GWR, not only does it annoy me, but it spoils the peace and tranquility that is so special at such places between trains. There have to be compromises between backside covering and common sense.

And no one suspected that the IRA would leave a bomb in a bin in Warrington or would shoot a soldier dead on Lichfield station, but they did.

One of the reasons you hear it everywhere is to get it to be second nature, it’s almost like an ear worm in that respect.

 

[Intermodal]

Funnily enough, I have just been again accused of the heinous crime of 'leaving luggage' while waiting for the delayed 1812 VT service from Nuneaton to Holyhead.

I left my bags by the wall (as they are very heavy, and weigh over 30kg), and proceeded to pace up and down no more than 5 metres from my luggage, trying to keep warm as I waited for my delayed service. The luggage was in my line of sight at all times, and I was the only passenger waiting on the platform. A dispatcher arrived shortly before my service, and stood with my luggage in sight for a minute or two, before finally standing next to it and staring at it angrily. She then proceeded to talk on her radio for some time. I had headphones on so I was unable to hear what she was saying. At no point did she look at me or suggest that my luggage was an issue, so I simply left her to enjoy the orange aesthetic of my backpack. I thought perhaps she was admiring my choice in "Musto" brand containers.

At this point the service began to roll into the platform, and simultaneously the dispatcher began to start attempting to open one of my backpacks. At this stage I walked over and began to collect my bags in order to board the train. The dispatcher turned to me and began talking to me - at which point I took off my headphones in order to be able to hear her. Apparently there had been several announcements about my luggage (why? I was the only person on the platform, and I was stood right next to her - she could've made eye contact with me and asked me - I was unable to hear any announcements due to the excellent quality of Sony noise cancellation technology). She then began to raise her voice and repeated three times "Why did you leave your luggage?", each time giving me no time to reply. Once she had finished with this verbal assault, I proposed that I did not leave my luggage, and was in fact close to it the entire time - and suggested she could have asked me if it was mine. The lady replied "Have you not heard of terrorists or bombs or nothing like that?" and immediately followed again, in a raised voice, with "Why did you leave your luggage?".

At this point I picked up my bags and boarded my train, asking her to excuse me. She issued a dramatic sigh, threw her arms up in the air and walked off.

Excellent customer service and communication skills by Virgin Trains.

 

[D1009]

And no one suspected that the IRA would leave a bomb in a bin in Warrington or would shoot a soldier dead on Lichfield station, but they did.

One of the reasons you hear it everywhere is to get it to be second nature, it’s almost like an ear worm in that respect.

Yes, and one I think unnecessary. I'd regard Warrington as busy enough to need security messages and the like as I would Wigan Preston and Crewe, but if you have to go back to 1993 to find an example of a station being blown up by a terrorist attack, it somewhat destroys your point IMO, As for the soldier being shot dead at Lichfield station, how would that have been prevented by the current security messsage overload on the railway. Eliminating risk of all potential occurrences is impossible, we have to live in the current world.

 

[mpthomson]

The point I’m making, as someone involved in an area where we regularly see security threat analysis is that you can’t discount the possibility that someone will once again attempt to leave a bomb somewhere slightly unexpected, or commit a terrorist act somewhere that wouldn’t necessarily be expected. The current risks are not just from Islamist related terrorism.

The fact that the last station bombing was in 1993 is missing the point entirely. Had the tube device detonated correctly in a different location we could have had one very recently. The Lichfield example is to illustrate that incidents can occur in seemingly unlikely places, and that specific risk hasn’t gone away and is still seen as a significant threat.

 

[SPADTrap]

Funnily enough, I have just been again accused of the heinous crime of 'leaving luggage' while waiting for the delayed 1812 VT service from Nuneaton to Holyhead.

I left my bags by the wall (as they are very heavy, and weigh over 30kg), and proceeded to pace up and down no more than 5 metres from my luggage, trying to keep warm as I waited for my delayed service. The luggage was in my line of sight at all times, and I was the only passenger waiting on the platform. A dispatcher arrived shortly before my service, and stood with my luggage in sight for a minute or two, before finally standing next to it and staring at it angrily. She then proceeded to talk on her radio for some time. I had headphones on so I was unable to hear what she was saying. At no point did she look at me or suggest that my luggage was an issue, so I simply left her to enjoy the orange aesthetic of my backpack. I thought perhaps she was admiring my choice in "Musto" brand containers.

At this point the service began to roll into the platform, and simultaneously the dispatcher began to start attempting to open one of my backpacks. At this stage I walked over and began to collect my bags in order to board the train. The dispatcher turned to me and began talking to me - at which point I took off my headphones in order to be able to hear her. Apparently there had been several announcements about my luggage (why? I was the only person on the platform, and I was stood right next to her - she could've made eye contact with me and asked me - I was unable to hear any announcements due to the excellent quality of Sony noise cancellation technology). She then began to raise her voice and repeated three times "Why did you leave your luggage?", each time giving me no time to reply. Once she had finished with this verbal assault, I proposed that I did not leave my luggage, and was in fact close to it the entire time - and suggested she could have asked me if it was mine. The lady replied "Have you not heard of terrorists or bombs or nothing like that?" and immediately followed again, in a raised voice, with "Why did you leave your luggage?".

At this point I picked up my bags and boarded my train, asking her to excuse me. She issued a dramatic sigh, threw her arms up in the air and walked off.

Excellent customer service and communication skills by Virgin Trains.

If it keeps happening to you maybe that says something? Strangely enough this has never happened to me. Maybe reconsider your behaviour.

 

[Llanigraham]

Yes, and one I think unnecessary. I'd regard Warrington as busy enough to need security messages and the like as I would Wigan Preston and Crewe, but if you have to go back to 1993 to find an example of a station being blown up by a terrorist attack, it somewhat destroys your point IMO, As for the soldier being shot dead at Lichfield station, how would that have been prevented by the current security messsage overload on the railway. Eliminating risk of all potential occurrences is impossible, we have to live in the current world.

Sorry but the world (and terrorism) 24 years ago was very different.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Funnily enough, I have just been again accused of the heinous crime of 'leaving luggage' while waiting for the delayed 1812 VT service from Nuneaton to Holyhead.

I left my bags by the wall (as they are very heavy, and weigh over 30kg), and proceeded to pace up and down no more than 5 metres from my luggage, trying to keep warm as I waited for my delayed service. The luggage was in my line of sight at all times, and I was the only passenger waiting on the platform. A dispatcher arrived shortly before my service, and stood with my luggage in sight for a minute or two, before finally standing next to it and staring at it angrily. She then proceeded to talk on her radio for some time. I had headphones on so I was unable to hear what she was saying. At no point did she look at me or suggest that my luggage was an issue, so I simply left her to enjoy the orange aesthetic of my backpack. I thought perhaps she was admiring my choice in "Musto" brand containers.

At this point the service began to roll into the platform, and simultaneously the dispatcher began to start attempting to open one of my backpacks. At this stage I walked over and began to collect my bags in order to board the train. The dispatcher turned to me and began talking to me - at which point I took off my headphones in order to be able to hear her. Apparently there had been several announcements about my luggage (why? I was the only person on the platform, and I was stood right next to her - she could've made eye contact with me and asked me - I was unable to hear any announcements due to the excellent quality of Sony noise cancellation technology). She then began to raise her voice and repeated three times "Why did you leave your luggage?", each time giving me no time to reply. Once she had finished with this verbal assault, I proposed that I did not leave my luggage, and was in fact close to it the entire time - and suggested she could have asked me if it was mine. The lady replied "Have you not heard of terrorists or bombs or nothing like that?" and immediately followed again, in a raised voice, with "Why did you leave your luggage?".

At this point I picked up my bags and boarded my train, asking her to excuse me. She issued a dramatic sigh, threw her arms up in the air and walked off.

Excellent customer service and communication skills by Virgin Trains.

It's fairly obvious that you failed to hear anything because of your headphones. Stacks could have been going on and said but you were in the land of tunes. once i managed to get a young lady on the train by tapping her shoulder, the train had actually pulled in right in front of her and all the other passengers got on but she was doing tunes and texting.

 

[EM2]

A dispatcher arrived shortly before my service, and stood with my luggage in sight for a minute or two, before finally standing next to it and staring at it angrily. She then proceeded to talk on her radio for some time. I had headphones on so I was unable to hear what she was saying. At no point did she look at me or suggest that my luggage was an issue, so I simply left her to enjoy the orange aesthetic of my backpack. I thought perhaps she was admiring my choice in "Musto" brand containers.

You didn't think to say 'Oh, that's mine'?

 

[mpthomson]

Eliminating risk of all potential occurrences is impossible, we have to live in the current world.

For work reasons I need to know what the current risks actually are so I appear to live more in the current world than some posters on this thread.

 

[Carntyne]

It sounds like someone needs to alter their behaviour, and it's not station staff or BTP here.

 

[6Gman]

Funnily enough, I have just been again accused of the heinous crime of 'leaving luggage' while waiting for the delayed 1812 VT service from Nuneaton to Holyhead.

I left my bags by the wall (as they are very heavy, and weigh over 30kg), and proceeded to pace up and down no more than 5 metres from my luggage, trying to keep warm as I waited for my delayed service. The luggage was in my line of sight at all times, and I was the only passenger waiting on the platform. A dispatcher arrived shortly before my service, and stood with my luggage in sight for a minute or two, before finally standing next to it and staring at it angrily. She then proceeded to talk on her radio for some time. I had headphones on so I was unable to hear what she was saying. At no point did she look at me or suggest that my luggage was an issue, so I simply left her to enjoy the orange aesthetic of my backpack. I thought perhaps she was admiring my choice in "Musto" brand containers.

At this point the service began to roll into the platform, and simultaneously the dispatcher began to start attempting to open one of my backpacks. At this stage I walked over and began to collect my bags in order to board the train. The dispatcher turned to me and began talking to me - at which point I took off my headphones in order to be able to hear her. Apparently there had been several announcements about my luggage (why? I was the only person on the platform, and I was stood right next to her - she could've made eye contact with me and asked me - I was unable to hear any announcements due to the excellent quality of Sony noise cancellation technology). She then began to raise her voice and repeated three times "Why did you leave your luggage?", each time giving me no time to reply. Once she had finished with this verbal assault, I proposed that I did not leave my luggage, and was in fact close to it the entire time - and suggested she could have asked me if it was mine. The lady replied "Have you not heard of terrorists or bombs or nothing like that?" and immediately followed again, in a raised voice, with "Why did you leave your luggage?".

At this point I picked up my bags and boarded my train, asking her to excuse me. She issued a dramatic sigh, threw her arms up in the air and walked off.

Excellent customer service and communication skills by Virgin Trains.

Or you could just have co-operated ...

 

[Loop & Link]

I think we’ve found what (or who) the problem is.

Are you doing it for attention or to deliberately ‘test’ staff reaction?


Seriously though, that is one of my pet hates people walking away from their luggage even if it’s not far away, take it with you or just pop it down and stand next to it!

While I’ve found the number of phone calls increase dramatically over recent months over unattended items when it’s always been something and nothing it’s nice to see people being more vigilant.

 

[johnkingeu]

Has a bomb ever been found on a station anywhere in the world which has been discovered by searching unattended luggage? In the absence of a warning, threat or specific information, that is?

 

[highspeed990]

It is a bit silly but then again you see terrorists of all skin colours on the news so you need to be careful, they're just doing their job.

Some people expect not to be searched because they aren't a certain race, others get offended when they do, everyone needs to be treated equality by the police.

 

[cf111]

Has a bomb ever been found on a station anywhere in the world which has been discovered by searching unattended luggage? In the absence of a warning, threat or specific information, that is?

Had terrorists ever flown planes into skyscrapers before September 11th? I'm not saying we should live in a climate of total fear but checking for unattended luggage is a reasonable and sensible step.

As for the OP, if you saw her going towards you bags, regardless of the fact you had your music on, then why not just go up and say "hi, these are mine" which would have prevented the entire situation from happening? I normally listen to music while waiting for the train but funnily enough it doesn't stop my eyes from functioning.

 

[221129]

Has a bomb ever been found on a station anywhere in the world which has been discovered by searching unattended luggage? In the absence of a warning, threat or specific information, that is?

Devices viable or otherwise? Yes

 

[Chris M]

Has a bomb ever been found on a station anywhere in the world which has been discovered by searching unattended luggage? In the absence of a warning, threat or specific information, that is?

I don't know off my head about actual bombs found in abandoned luggage on a station (plenty of things that were not identifiable either way without the attention of experts), however one was left on a Jubilee line train almost exactly a year ago. http://news.met.police.uk/news/stud...or-leaving-homemade-bomb-on-tube-train-243652

 

[mpthomson]

Has a bomb ever been found on a station anywhere in the world which has been discovered by searching unattended luggage? In the absence of a warning, threat or specific information, that is?

If there had been others than the above then you almost certainly wouldn’t have heard about it for reasons that should be obvious, unless as evidence given in an open trial.

 

[mpthomson]

It is a bit silly but then again you see terrorists of all skin colours on the news so you need to be careful, they're just doing their job.

Some people expect not to be searched because they aren't a certain race, others get offended when they do, everyone needs to be treated equality by the police.

It isn’t a bit silly at all, trust me.

 

[mpthomson]

Has a bomb ever been found on a station anywhere in the world which has been discovered by searching unattended luggage? In the absence of a warning, threat or specific information, that is?

There IS a credible threat however, both from Islamist related and more domestically related organisations/individuals.

 

[BluePenguin]

May I have your attention please.......Do not leave unattended items and luggage at this station. Unattended luggage will be removed by security services and may be destroyed. Please keep your belongings with you at all times and report anything suspicious.

 

[E_Reeves]

What do they gain in destroying it though?

 

[mpthomson]

What do they gain in destroying it though?

Two purposes in saying that, firstly so people don’t do it but secondly if it is felt to be a threat, whether it turns out to be or not in the aftermath, then it will be dealt with in the appropriate manner and destroyed, either explosively or by one of the other methods available to the EOD teams.