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Unannounced platform change

Tom

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The timing of the VSTP in Trust bears no impact on performance metrics. It was past the threshold in any case, but for the record it is the time the revised plan was agreed that mattered, not the time schedules were keyed into Trust.
My comment was more along the lines of that it had clearly been agreed in line with a revised plan, I am very aware the keying time does not matter. Changing the timetable that late though is never a good look particularly if it benefits the performance metrics…

It would be rather better for accountability and building/restoring trust in the railway if SWR/Network Rail admitted that this was the decision that was taken, rather than giving the appearance of hiding the changes.
Agreed, just saying that it was to ensure the integrity of the service for the mainline would have been far better than hiding behind the emergency engineering works comment on NRE.
 
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bb21

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My comment was more along the lines of that it had clearly been agreed in line with a revised plan, I am very aware the keying time does not matter. Changing the timetable that late though is never a good look particularly if it benefits the performance metrics…
Unfortunately timetables get changed all the time, sometimes with plenty of warnings and sometimes not. No one deliberately sets out to make these changes late. Normal travelling public don't generally give a toss about performance metrics. What matters to them is the journey experience, which it makes practically zero difference to whether the train is cancelled at 2150 or at 2210. They are equally annoying. The 2200 timeline has always been a contractual matter internal to the industry, not part of the contract with the fare-paying public. It is needed for contractual purposes as a line has to be drawn somewhere.

The problem is some clever dick decided not that long ago that they would unilaterally write it into customer contracts in order to deny people compensation, clearly with the tacit agreement from the government. Prior to that change the position was vague and can be argued by the customer, after that change it became impossible. That is what makes people more angry.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

Agreed, just saying that it was to ensure the integrity of the service for the mainline would have been far better than hiding behind the emergency engineering works comment on NRE.
Looking at the relevant comms, this may simply have been down to a miscommunication rather than deliberate attempts to hide the real reason (after all, neither reason is really any better than the other), but the point raised by the OP was a valid one and probably should have been picked up earlier.
 
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Tom

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Published timetable of the day was dropped from NRCoT a few revisions ago. It's still mentioned on the NRE website, but not in the conditions of travel. (Although it does say on the NRE website that it'll be published by 10pm :rolleyes:)

I agree that the public do not give a toss about performance metrics. However the industry does and it likes giving itself a good slap on the back if it does well. The performance metrics therefore fall over because it isn't really representative: consider the unlikely situation that everything on Saturday ran perfectly apart from that - that'd be 100% on Right Time, etc, but it isn't - because passengers journeys have been affected. The industry does terribly when it comes to thinking and experiencing the railway actually like a passenger.

And just to pick it up, this isn't really something that happens in these circumstances. I was sitting at Woking earlier waiting for my train home and there was a pretty last minute platform alterations for just a normal service train running a normal service - let alone an instance like this. I'll ignore that there probably should have been a second across the island but instead it ran as booked and promptly put a 2 minute delay into a 159.
 

bb21

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I agree that the public do not give a toss about performance metrics. However the industry does and it likes giving itself a good slap on the back if it does well. The performance metrics therefore fall over because it isn't really representative: consider the unlikely situation that everything on Saturday ran perfectly apart from that - that'd be 100% on Right Time, etc, but it isn't - because passengers journeys have been affected. The industry does terribly when it comes to thinking and experiencing the railway actually like a passenger.
The patting itself on the back thing is part PR and part political. It is just a fact of life. I don't like cringy PR or political point-scoring but I do appreciate they are important at promoting rail travel as part of a wider sustainability drive. Lots of things need improving across the industry, including changing mindsets and many things are slowly improving, but there is a long way to go and it can be argued some changes should be implemented quickler. On the other hand the industry's hands are tied to a certain degree as changes cost money and the latter is not in plentiful supply, and subject to prevailing government agenda.

All metrics come with their own nuances, whether it be PPM, T-3/5, full/part-cancellations, excess waiting times, lost customer hours, etc. There isn't a one-size-fit-all measure that can reflect every customer's experience, be relatively straight forward to calculate, and easy to present/track. That's why I alway say take performance metrics with a pinch of salt. Use them as a rough guide but when you start drilling into individual days or individual journeys you will always find incompatabilities and inconsistencies, not to mention they are not necessarily that accurate to start with. Even on days where headline figures are reporting 100%, some customers may have had very poor experiences due to factors other than punctuality.
 

ChrisC

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Sheffield has, I find, an especially high number of drop-of-a-hat platform changes and the best bit is I can usually predict the platform changes ages before they're announced. In my view if a platform change is announced at short notice (with 'short notice' being defined for each possible platform pair) it should be grounds for delay repay or at least advances should be valid on the next train..
I experienced a last minute platform change at Sheffield a couple of weeks ago. I was waiting for the Leeds to Nottingham train which was due to depart from platform 5. There was an announcement of a platform change to platform 6 just before the train was due to arrive. I’m reasonably able bodied and was able to get over the bridge fairly quickly and the train was arriving into the platform just as I hurried down the stairs. Having boarded the train I was quite surprised how soon after the doors were closed and the train departed. Any less mobile, older people and families with young children or large luggage items would not have had a chance of getting to the train before it departed, especially anyone who would have needed to use the lifts.
 

NeilCr

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I had something similar last week at Margate.

A very late platform change from 2-1. The train was pulling into the platform as the announcement came. Fortunately (as I have back issues and am carrying a bit too much weight) I was by the stairs and also saw the train just before the announcement

I just about made it. The guard had the door by the stairs open but he certainly didn't wait long. I said something to him about a late announcement but he just asked where I was going, ushered me in to the train and closed the doors

It did make me wonder how a change of platform is communicated to the guard.
 

skyhigh

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Having boarded the train I was quite surprised how soon after the doors were closed and the train departed.
Part of the problem is that the crew aren't told if there has been a platform alteration, so won't wait for passengers if they don't know.
 

Watershed

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Part of the problem is that the crew aren't told if there has been a platform alteration, so won't wait for passengers if they don't know.
I would have thought a conscientious member of crew would look up their booked workings on a source of real time information (e.g. NRE, Real Time Trains) so they can advise people on which side of the train the exit will be. Making such announcements is routine in other countries but seems to be in the "we don't do things that way" pile in Britain.
 

Kite159

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Sometimes the first time the guard knows about a change of platform is when they feel the train changing track on the outskirts of said station, or if they get a nice driver who will buzz them up to say "we are going into platform X".

Some will know the usual platform the train should be using, but at stations where platform usage can vary, unless you have a guard who does their research into what the booked platform is meant to be. Even then they might not have any clue at how long such a thing has been announced at the station
 

Watershed

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Sometimes the first time the guard knows about a change of platform is when they feel the train changing track on the outskirts of said station, or if they get a nice driver who will buzz them up to say "we are going into platform X".
Oh I don't doubt that, but on the vast majority of lines it would be possible to look up the platform the train has been routed into on the likes of Open Train Times or Traksy.

Again, I'm not saying guards have to do this, or that they don't have a number of other tasks that take priority, but it's the kind of thing that a particularly conscientious guard might do.

Of course it would be far better if the TOCs printed the booked platform number onto the schedule card, then it is blatantly obvious if the platform has been changed. Some might do that but the schedule cards I've seen don't have them.

Even then they might not have any clue at how long such a thing has been announced at the station
At stations where there are multiple possible platforms a long way apart you'd hope there would be some effort to establish it though. For example by asking platform staff or, in their absence, passengers if there was an announcement.
 

rmHawk765

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Is it not commonplace for a driver to at least tell any other staff on the train if they have been routed into a platform different than booked?
 

Watershed

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Is it not commonplace for a driver to at least tell any other staff on the train if they have been routed into a platform different than booked?
As above their diagram doesn't generally tell them their booked platform. And unlike the guard they're obviously not allowed to use their phone to look anything up.
 

Haywain

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Is it not commonplace for a driver to at least tell any other staff on the train if they have been routed into a platform different than booked?
Even if it was, how would they know whether it has or has not been announced or displayed at the station in good time, if at all?
 

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