Unable to show railcard due to unresponsive phone

[cjt234]

About 6 weeks ago, I took a GWR train from Bristol to Paddington, haing bought a 16-25 railcard ticket. When the ticket inspector came to check my tickets, I was not able to show him my railcard as my phone was unresponsive. Another person took down my address, email and phone number and said they would be in contact and I would just need to send them a screenshot of my railcard then as proof within 21 days of receiving the letter. However, I have still not received any email, letter or call and I'm getting a bit worried because I will be travelling for a month in September.

How long does it usually take for their office to reach you? I'm haven't been in this situation before so I'm not sure what to expect. Since they want me to respond with proof, shall I just email GWR in advance with proof of my railcard? I would very appreciate some advice. Thanks!

 

[island]

Did you not get a ticket or card at the time of the inspection with an email address to send your Railcard into?

 

[cjt234]

Thanks for replying! He confiscated my 16-25 and printed me a new ticket without the railcard discount for the rest of the journey. He did not give anything else to me. I've kept the new ticket and it does not appear to have any information on it.

 

[WesternLancer]

Thanks for replying! He confiscated my 16-25 and printed me a new ticket without the railcard discount for the rest of the journey. He did not give anything else to me. I've kept the new ticket and it does not appear to have any information on it.

Confiscated your discounted ticket you mean?

 

[cjt234]

Apologies! Yes, he confiscated my discount ticket and printed me a new ticket for the rest of the journey. To clarify, he did not inform me of any way to reach out to them immediately once I was able to show them my railcard. He took down my name, phone number, address and email address and told me to wait for a letter after which I should respond within 21 days with proof of my railcard.

 

[AlterEgo]

Apologies! Yes, he confiscated my discount ticket and printed me a new ticket for the rest of the journey. To clarify, he did not inform me of any way to reach out to them once I was able to show them my railcard. He took down my name, phone number, address and email address and told me to wait for a letter after which I should respond within 21 days.

It sounds like he submitted a ticket irregularity report. You should simply wait to be contacted.

 

[ikcdab]

If you are away for a month then you need to make some form of arrangements so thatv you know if they write to you. Redirect your post to a friend or relative or get someone else to open it for you.

 

[cjt234]

If you are away for a month then you need to make some form of arrangements so thatv you know if they write to you. Redirect your post to a friend or relative or get someone else to open it for you.

I can try and arrange that.

If I email the GWR office concerned with these kinds of matters and show proof of my railcard, would they not accept that and send out the letter regardless? Is there any particular reason why I should wait for them to post a letter to me? According to the inspector's words, I would be able to contact them with proof once I receive the letter, so would sending them the proof in advance not resolve the issue?

He did not provide me with an email address at the time, but I assume it can be found on their website?

 

[ikcdab]

I can try and arrange that.

If I email the GWR office concerned with these kinds of matters and show proof of my railcard, would they not accept that and send out the letter regardless? Is there any particular reason why I should wait for them to post a letter to me? According to the inspector's words, I would be able to contact them with proof once I receive the letter, so would sending them the proof in advance not resolve the issue?

He did not provide me with an email address at the time, but I assume it can be found on their website?

No because they will need a reference number to pin it to. Until they create the case files and then write to you, there is no case number and if you write to them it will just get lost.

 

[cjt234]

No because they will need a reference number to pin it to. Until they create the case files and then write to you, there is no case number and if you write to them it will just get lost.

I see. Thanks for the advice! I shall arrange for someone to check my mail periodically.

I've read some of the other posts on this forum and it seems a lot of people had to pay a penalty or threatened with prosecution for fare invasion. This is quite worrying! The inspector who took down my details was very casual and made it seem like a non-issue, and did not inform me of any potential consequences.

As I mentioned, I did indeed have a valid railcard at the time for the valid ticket that I produced for inspection, but was unable to produce the railcard due to my phone being slow. This is the first time this happened. If they charge me nothing particularly extortionate even with proof of my railcard, I will just accept that I was unlucky. Can I be assured that they won't prosecute me? Sorry for this, I might be overthinking things.

 

[WesternLancer]

I see. Thanks for the advice! I shall arrange for someone to check my mail periodically.

I've read some of the other posts on this forum and it seems a lot of people had to pay a penalty or threatened with prosecution for fare invasion. This is quite worrying! The inspector who took down my details was very casual and made it seem like a non-issue, and did not inform me of any potential consequences.

As I mentioned, I did indeed have a valid railcard at the time for the valid ticket that I produced for inspection, but was unable to produce the railcard due to my phone being slow. This is the first time this happened. If they charge me nothing particularly extortionate even with proof of my railcard, I will just accept that I was unlucky. Can I be assured that they won't prosecute me? Sorry for this, I might be overthinking things.

If you had a valid railcard and respond to them and they don’t lose your response you won’t get prosecuted. You will get other mail including from a court if it escalated to prosecution so that should not come out of the blue.

You could have a read of the GWR revenue protection leaflet pdf on their website which helps explain what they do. You can easily find that.

 

[cjt234]

If you had a valid railcard and respond to them and they don’t lose your response you won’t get prosecuted. You will get other mail including from a court if it escalated to prosecution so that should not come out of the blue.

You could have a read of the GWR revenue protection leaflet pdf on their website which helps explain what they do. You can easily find that.

I see, thank you! I think I've found their policy on forgotten railcards thanks to your direction. I wasn't asked to buy a ticket at the time but from the inspector's words, it looks like I will be receiving an Unpaid Fare or Penalty Fare Notice and I can contact their Prosecutions department with proof of railcard once I receive it.

Thank you very much everyone for your help!

 

[WesternLancer]

I see, thank you! I think I've found their policy on forgotten railcards thanks to your direction. I wasn't asked to buy a ticket at the time but from the inspector's words, it looks like I will be receiving an Unpaid Fare or Penalty Fare Notice and I can contact their Prosecutions department with proof of railcard once I receive it.

Thank you very much everyone for your help!
View attachment 163828

Keep in touch as and when you need advice as things progress.

 

[cjt234]

Keep in touch as and when you need advice as things progress.

Thanks! Will do.

 

[BongoStar]

Thanks for replying! He confiscated my 16-25 and printed me a new ticket without the railcard discount for the rest of the journey. He did not give anything else to me.

Apologies! Yes, he confiscated my discount ticket and printed me a new ticket for the rest of the journey.

If he gave you a new undiscounted ticket, did you pay the difference then and there? as the new ticket would have been at a higher fare - possibly anytime single ticket.

 

[cjt234]

If he gave you a new undiscounted ticket, did you pay the difference then and there? as the new ticket would have been at a higher fare - possibly anytime single ticket.

Thanks for replying. No he did not ask me to pay the difference. I was not charged anything. The ticket without the railcard discount has a price of 0 printed on it.

 

[ikcdab]

That's as it should be. If you can show them that you had a valid Railcard then that should be the end of the matter. Assuming that this is a one-off case for you... Ie you haven't done it before. If you don't have the Railcard then that's when they will try to reclaim the full cost of the ticket (plus costs) you were given on the day.
If this isn't the first time for you then it's a different situation.

 

[cjt234]

That's as it should be. If you can show them that you had a valid Railcard then that should be the end of the matter. Assuming that this is a one-off case for you... Ie you haven't done it before. If you don't have the Railcard then that's when they will try to reclaim the full cost of the ticket (plus costs) you were given on the day.
If this isn't the first time for you then it's a different situation.

Thanks. Yes this has never happened before with GWR or with any other rail company. I do have a valid railcard which I have since been able to load on my phone and screenshot. I bought it on the Trainline app.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Aug 2024 ==

I guess a relevant question would be this: does anyone know how long the process usually takes from the day of the journey to GWR writing to you?
When the guy informed me that GWR would write to me, I had assumed it would be quick (1-2 weeks) but clearly it takes a while.

I travel fairly frequently (once every few months, for periods of up to a month), so it is uneasy to have something like this potentially arriving at any time. Is there a maximum time after which I can be sure that a letter will never arrive? In a year's time I may very well be moving to a different country for further studies.

 

[AlterEgo]

I see, thank you! I think I've found their policy on forgotten railcards thanks to your direction. I wasn't asked to buy a ticket at the time but from the inspector's words, it looks like I will be receiving an Unpaid Fare or Penalty Fare Notice and I can contact their Prosecutions department with proof of railcard once I receive it.

Thank you very much everyone for your help!
View attachment 163828

You won’t be receiving either a penalty fare or an unpaid fare notice. Both of these can only be issued at the time, and not retrospectively.

You have been reported to the prosecutions department.

 

[cjt234]

You won’t be receiving either a penalty fare or an unpaid fare notice. Both of these can only be issued at the time, and not retrospectively.

You have been reported to the prosecutions department.

Are you sure? What is the letter that the inspector said would sent to me then?

 

[AlterEgo]

Are you sure? What is the letter that the inspector said would sent to me then?

Yes I’m sure. You will likely be offered a chance to explain the situation or be immediately offered a chance to settle the matter out of court for the outstanding fare plus an administrative fee.

The prosecution policy does make clear there are three options: give you a penalty fare (didn’t happen), or give you an unpaid fare notice (didn’t happen), or report you to the prosecution department (this is what happened). It explains that if you have a railcard, you can send it to the prosecutions department.

 

[cjt234]

So the policy says that I can send my railcard to the prosecutions department, but like other people mentioned I should only do so once the prosecutions department writes me a letter?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Aug 2024 ==

Yes I’m sure. You will likely be offered a chance to explain the situation or be immediately offered a chance to settle the matter out of court for the outstanding fare plus an administrative fee.

The prosecution policy does make clear there are three options: give you a penalty fare (didn’t happen), or give you an unpaid fare notice (didn’t happen), or report you to the prosecution department (this is what happened). It explains that if you have a railcard, you can send it to the prosecutions department.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Aug 2024 ==

Is there any harm in sending them my railcard now? It sounds like the only risk would be them not associating it with the report from the ticket inspector once that finally gets logged. I will arrange for friends/family to check my post while I'm gone regardless, but perhaps it would be good to have on record that I tried to prove that I did have a railcard to them. Then I can provide an update with the case number once I do receive the letter.

 

[AlterEgo]

So the policy says that I can send my railcard to the prosecutions department, but like other people mentioned I should only do so once the prosecutions department writes me a letter?

Yes. You must wait for them to write to you.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Aug 2024 ==



== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Aug 2024 ==

Is there any harm in sending them my railcard now? It sounds like the only risk would be them not associating it with the report from the ticket inspector once that finally gets logged.

Yes, there is no point sending it now. They have no case to attach it to until they write to you.

I will arrange for friends/family to check my post while I'm gone regardless, but perhaps it would be good to have on record that I tried to prove that I did have a railcard to them. Then I can provide an update with the case number once I do receive the letter.

Don't send your railcard to them until you are written to, else it'll go into a big black hole of bureaucracy.

 

[cjt234]

Yes. You must wait for them to write to you.


Yes, there is no point sending it now. They have no case to attach it to until they write to you.


Don't send your railcard to them until you are written to, else it'll go into a big black hole of bureaucracy.

All right, thanks!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Aug 2024 ==

I've taken another look at the GWR Revenue Protection Policy. From what I can tell, I was not cautioned at the time according to their "interview under caution" section, which is annoying because if I was informed that this would go to the prosecution department and could escalate to court, I would have been more insistent to ask for more time to get my railcard on display. If I was given an option to pay the full fare I probably would have as well, even though I did have a valid railcard.

I was also not given anything indicative at the time. No unpaid fare, penalty fare notice or prosecution note. All the guy did was note down my details, confiscate my railcard discount ticket and print me a full price ticket.

 

[najaB]

I was also not given anything indicative at the time. No unpaid fare, penalty fare notice or prosecution note. All the guy did was note down my details, confiscate my railcard discount ticket and print me a full price ticket.

A full price ticket or a zero price ticket without any railcard discount shown:

I was not charged anything. The ticket without the railcard discount has a price of 0 printed on it.

Is this correct?

 

[cjt234]

A full price ticket or a zero price ticket without any railcard discount shown:

Is this correct?

apologies, I meant a zero price ticket without any railcard discount shown.

 

[John R]

I would have been more insistent to ask for more time to get my railcard on display. If I was given an option to pay the full fare I probably would have as well, even though I did have a valid railcard.

Im not sure it’s up to you how long they give you to present your railcard before they take action. And it would be unusual for the option of paying the full fare to be given, in the event you don’t show a valid railcard.

 

[najaB]

And it would be unusual for the option of paying the full fare to be given, in the event you don’t show a valid railcard.

While it might not be the most commonly chosen way to proceed, it's not unusual - paying for a new ticket is an option that's explicitly mentioned in the extract from the policy in post #12.

 

[ikcdab]

Im not sure it’s up to you how long they give you to present your railcard before they take action. And it would be unusual for the option of paying the full fare to be given, in the event you don’t show a valid railcard.

i have been in this situation and the guard has said he will check others and come back later. Mind you, that was on a limited stop train so no chance of me hopping off. I did have a valid railcard and all was ok.

 

[John R]

i have been in this situation and the guard has said he will check others and come back later. Mind you, that was on a limited stop train so no chance of me hopping off. I did have a valid railcard and all was ok.

Agree that the guard is entitled to give some discretion if they wish. It was the OP saying they would have been more insistent on being afforded more time - they are not in a position to dictate how long the guard gives them.