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Unable to issue seasons?

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Starmill

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On Monday morning I overheard a woman's conversation with the 'ticket sellers' who spend a couple of hours each weekday morning at the entrance to one of Mauldeth Road's platforms as what passes for arrangements to buy before you board here while there is no ticket office.

Sometimes they are both G4S staff, sometimes they are both actual Northern staff (presumably RPIs) and sometimes there is one of each, which I imagine may be a bit awkward for one or both of them!

This passenger presented her photocard and asked for a new weekly season to Manchester, but the member of staff said he couldn't do those, and her only option would have to be a single. She questioned this, saying that she'd bought tickets from them before. He was adamant that 'these machines don't do seasons'. Is this true? I'm almost certain I've seen guards and RPIs issuing seasons before, at least as renewals.

Anyway she was given the option of a single or nothing, but it was stated in no uncertain terms that 'the easiest way to do this is for me to sell you a single, because people without tickets are getting booked up at Manchester'. He went on to say that it would be easy enough to 'claim back' by taking the single to the ticket office at Piccadilly and they would reduce the cost of the new season by the value of the ticket.

I can say categorically that this woman would have been refused a part exchange if she got certain members of staff in the queue at the ticket office. Though what concerns me is that a single has been used by the time the passenger gets to the destination? I have had part exchanges refused at that ticket office on the grounds that 'it can't be done' and its my own fault for buying a single and on the grounds that the single has no more relevance because it is now used - which sounds like its within the rules, even if it is unfair.

Is there something about certain Avantixes which means they can't do seasons? Is this really the best advice for them to be giving and basically threatening people? Should the new ticket have been part exchanged, regardless of if it was?
 
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bb21

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Avantix machines can certainly do weekly seasons. Not monthlies or longer as these require the details of the passenger to be taken and stored in a database.

Part-exchanging a single is an alternative method. Whoever at Manchester refused to do so also needs a telling off.
 

OwlMan

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If a season is unable to be issued then a single should be issued - refunding it later.
The Manual
Customers unable to buy Season Tickets/Travelcards at time of travel.

Due to Ticket Office Closure (or inability to sell full range of tickets normally available)

Wherever possible, all customers must be in possession of valid tickets before starting their journeys. If it is not possible to purchase a Season Ticket or Travelcard, through no fault of their own, customers should purchase other appropriate tickets (e.g. on train, from self-service machines, or at a ticket office). Such tickets are available for full refund, on the same day, against the renewal Season Tickets. Refund Claim forms must be completed.
Ticket Machine Failure

7 Day Season Tickets and Travelcards
Issue a daily ticket and advise the customer to retain it for refund against a 7 Day renewal. If the journey involves a private settlement company, such as a ‘Transport for London' participant, issue the daily ticket to the interchange point where the other company starts. Advise the customer to buy a separate ticket from that point onwards and to retain it for refund of any extra costs, if appropriate. This applies to all Travelcard issues.
 

TWPacer

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I had a slightly similar situation where I tried to buy a Lancashire Day ranger off similar staff at Preston - chap said he couldn't do it - I guess that was only because he wasn't sure what do to do? He let me through and advised me to purchase at ticket office which I did.
 

sarahj

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As long as they have a photocard (and I have some spare blank ones in my bag, just in case), you can issue a 7 day season on they advantix. Since the fare would be listed on her screen when she brought up the fares, including the SDS, I'm not sure what her issue is. You can check the price of longer seasons, but not issue them.

SJ
 

island

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I have occasionally heard XC guards announcing that if anyone wanted their weekly season ticket renewing to please feel free to ask them as they pass through the train.
 

bb21

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I have occasionally heard XC guards announcing that if anyone wanted their weekly season ticket renewing to please feel free to ask them as they pass through the train.

I have heard of an eager XC guard offering to renew a passenger's season ticket, which turned out to be a Rover. :lol:
 

CyrusWuff

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Anyway she was given the option of a single or nothing, but it was stated in no uncertain terms that 'the easiest way to do this is for me to sell you a single, because people without tickets are getting booked up at Manchester'. He went on to say that it would be easy enough to 'claim back' by taking the single to the ticket office at Piccadilly and they would reduce the cost of the new season by the value of the ticket.

I can say categorically that this woman would have been refused a part exchange if she got certain members of staff in the queue at the ticket office.

The major flaw in the G4S bod's assertion is that they're working on behalf of Northern, and the Ticket Office at Piccadilly is run by Virgin. To reclaim the cost of the single, the passenger would need to go to a Northern Ticket Office, such as Oxford Road or Victoria.
 

34D

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The major flaw in the G4S bod's assertion is that they're working on behalf of Northern, and the Ticket Office at Piccadilly is run by Virgin. To reclaim the cost of the single, the passenger would need to go to a Northern Ticket Office, such as Oxford Road or Victoria.

This is incorrect advice.

A part-payment can be done trans-TOC
 

paul1609

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I had a slightly similar situation where I tried to buy a Lancashire Day ranger off similar staff at Preston - chap said he couldn't do it - I guess that was only because he wasn't sure what do to do? He let me through and advised me to purchase at ticket office which I did.
On one of Ascots forum meets I had a very tight connection at PRESTON at the start. I obtained a Lancashire Day Rover off the guard of the Littlehampton toBrighton train first thing in the morning

 

WelshBluebird

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Things like this are a real bug bear of mine.

Not just the fact that at least some staff who are allowed to issue tickets don't know how to, but also the fact the "solution" seems to be that the passenger has to deal with the hassle of then having to sort it out at a ticket office.

If a member of staff is so incompetent that they cannot issue a weekly season ticket, then that is their issue, and the passenger should not suffer because of that (and I say suffer, because for some of us getting to a properly manned ticket office to get a refund is nuisance).

And sadly, the same "solution" seems to be given for many problems a passenger may come up against (where a passenger has to either pay more money, or spend their own time, to sort out a problem that was either the fault of the railway or the fault of a member of staff). I just don't think it is good enough. I do enjoy travelling by rail, but this area is one where the industry really needs to sort itself out I think.
 
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CyrusWuff

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This is incorrect advice.

A part-payment can be done trans-TOC

Whilst that may be the theory, I'm speaking from experience! I've had East Coast staff at Kings Cross refuse to accept a Permit to Travel bought at Alexandra Palace (FCC) as part payment, instead directing me to the "Suburban" ticket office; barrier staff at Liverpool Street attempting to issue a Penalty Fare despite having been sold a paper "Exchange Travelcard" by on-train staff (using the logic that he'd "just checked a ticket bought from the station I'd started from"...that had been issued 10 minutes before I got there); EMT staff at St Pancras refuse to accept a Single from Palmers Green (FCC) to London Terminals as part payment for a PRIV from Palmers Green to Sheffield via London.

And those are just off the top of my head...

The suggestion for the latter was that I should submit the original ticket to FCC for a refund, even though I'd get nothing back due to the admin fee!
 

Starmill

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The cross-TOC issue is certainly one of the excuses used by some of those staff for not part-exchanging tickets.

The worse one I get though is 'It's your own fault for buying that single, you should have bought the right ticket in the first place.' which makes me want to take the member of staff across the counter from me and the member of staff who first refused to sell the correct ticket and bash their heads together ;)
 

bb21

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Whilst that may be the theory, I'm speaking from experience! I've had East Coast staff at Kings Cross refuse to accept a Permit to Travel bought at Alexandra Palace (FCC) as part payment, instead directing me to the "Suburban" ticket office; barrier staff at Liverpool Street attempting to issue a Penalty Fare despite having been sold a paper "Exchange Travelcard" by on-train staff (using the logic that he'd "just checked a ticket bought from the station I'd started from"...that had been issued 10 minutes before I got there); EMT staff at St Pancras refuse to accept a Single from Palmers Green (FCC) to London Terminals as part payment for a PRIV from Palmers Green to Sheffield via London.

And those are just off the top of my head...

The suggestion for the latter was that I should submit the original ticket to FCC for a refund, even though I'd get nothing back due to the admin fee!

Well they all need retraining by the sound of it, with a trainer who knows what he is talking about.
 
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