Unable to get bicycle off HST?

[jednick]

I got on an 8-carriage HST today from Worcester Foregate Street to Evesham today. I put my bike in the designated area, right at the back of the train, in the rear power car, like I'm supposed to.

At Evesham, due to being a short platform, only the front five or six carriages were on the platform.

I was unable to remove my bike. Thankfully, the guard was available so I spoke to him.

I was a bit miffed that the guard said I "should have put my bike towards the front of the train", but nobody told me this when I got on the train and put my bike in the correct area, I didn't expect there would be a problem!

Anyway, I spoke to the the guard and he allowed the train to shunt forward so I could get my bike off (There was a ten-minute waiting time at Evesham, so we had time to do this).

Is this normal practice, the shunting the train forward like this?

And, say we hadn't been allowed to shunt the train forward, and I'd been forced to get off at the next stop and double back to Evesham. Could I sue the train company for my lost time, lost appointments, etc, given the fact they hadn't told me to put my bike further towards the front of the train when I boarded and therefore it was impossible to remove my bike?

 

[DaveNewcastle]

There are several stations on the network where the designated cycle area will not be 'on platform'. This is usually dealt with by pre-arrangement, such as moving the bike to an agreed vistibule at an earlier station, and these arrangements are always going to be the most effective with operators who insist on bike reservations (which leads to the information being available to both on-train staff and platform staff).

I'll guess that there wasn't the opportunity to discuss it with the guard on this journey until arrival at Evesham.

No, you would not be in a position to sue the Railway operator for your consequential losses. The maximum in damages where no injury or physical loss was sustained would be the price paid for the journey, but even that would not (as it appears from what you have posted) be repayable in terms of the Contract to travel, and in which the bicycle was conveyed at no additional cost to your own conveyance. The inconvenience if you alighted at Evesham as booked and had to collect your bike at another time from there or elsewhere would possibly be the subject of a discretionary offer of some sort - depending on details of the circumstances.

 

[Mag_seven]

As I understand it FGW have a policy of only carrying bikes in the guards compartment which is the very 1st vehicle in the standard class next to the HST power car (coach A). At trains with short platforms this coach will always be platformed regardless of whether the train is in correct or reverse (correct meaning 1st class at the London end) formation. Sounds as though you put your bike in the rear power car of a train in reverse formation which is incorrect. The station staff at Worcester should have put you right on this however.

 

[jednick]

As I understand it FGW have a policy of only carrying bikes in the guards compartment which is the very 1st vehicle in the standard class next to the HST power car (coach A). At trains with short platforms this coach will always be platformed regardless of whether the train is in correct or reverse (correct meaning 1st class at the London end) formation. Sounds as though you put your bike in the rear power car of a train in reverse formation which is incorrect. The station staff at Worcester should have put you right on this however.

The train was in correct formation, the front, the London-bound end, was the first class.

Yes, I though the rear portion containing the bike carriage would be platformed regardless, but Evesham has an unusual signalling arrangement (due to the line going from single to double at this point), so I got caught out, and the front 5 or 6 carriages only are platformed.

I agree staff at Worcester should have noticed.

Thanks.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

There are several stations on the network where the designated cycle area will not be 'on platform'. This is usually dealt with by pre-arrangement, such as moving the bike to an agreed vistibule at an earlier station, and these arrangements are always going to be the most effective with operators who insist on bike reservations (which leads to the information being available to both on-train staff and platform staff).

I'll guess that there wasn't the opportunity to discuss it with the guard on this journey until arrival at Evesham.

No, you would not be in a position to sue the Railway operator for your consequential losses. The maximum in damages where no injury or physical loss was sustained would be the price paid for the journey, but even that would not (as it appears from what you have posted) be repayable in terms of the Contract to travel, and in which the bicycle was conveyed at no additional cost to your own conveyance. The inconvenience if you alighted at Evesham as booked and had to collect your bike at another time from there or elsewhere would possibly be the subject of a discretionary offer of some sort - depending on details of the circumstances.

Thanks for the detailed reply

 

[Rich McLean]

I got on an 8-carriage HST today from Worcester Foregate Street to Evesham today. I put my bike in the designated area, right at the back of the train, in the rear power car, like I'm supposed to.

At Evesham, due to being a short platform, only the front five or six carriages were on the platform.

I was unable to remove my bike. Thankfully, the guard was available so I spoke to him.

I was a bit miffed that the guard said I "should have put my bike towards the front of the train", but nobody told me this when I got on the train and put my bike in the correct area, I didn't expect there would be a problem!

Anyway, I spoke to the the guard and he allowed the train to shunt forward so I could get my bike off (There was a ten-minute waiting time at Evesham, so we had time to do this).

Is this normal practice, the shunting the train forward like this?

And, say we hadn't been allowed to shunt the train forward, and I'd been forced to get off at the next stop and double back to Evesham. Could I sue the train company for my lost time, lost appointments, etc, given the fact they hadn't told me to put my bike further towards the front of the train when I boarded and therefore it was impossible to remove my bike?

Normally no. As there is waiting time for pathing reasons, this was made possible with signalers permission. If there wasn't time however, then the train would of went forward to destination, with the bike still on board. You would then be required to collect it from an alternative location at a later date, which is normally Bristol Lost property.

Best bet is to ask the guard before you bored the train.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

As I understand it FGW have a policy of only carrying bikes in the guards compartment which is the very 1st vehicle in the standard class next to the HST power car (coach A). At trains with short platforms this coach will always be platformed regardless of whether the train is in correct or reverse (correct meaning 1st class at the London end) formation. Sounds as though you put your bike in the rear power car of a train in reverse formation which is incorrect. The station staff at Worcester should have put you right on this however.

That is not true on the Cotswold line. various different platforms have start boards in different locations for each station, depending on signalling etc.

So some stations the front coaches are platforms, others the middle, and also at certain stations, only the rear coaches

 

[Wyvern]

You can just open the door on the power car without asking anyone then?

 

[Rich McLean]

You can just open the door on the power car without asking anyone then?

In the explanation above, platform staff may not have been aware of the arrangements for Evesham. The TM may not have been aware that the passenger was going to Evesham until it was too late.

And no, you can't open the power car door yourself. If I am up front and there is a long dwell, I will happily open the PC door for a passenger to place a bike into, but I will ask where that passenger is alighting first.

 

[Tomnick]

It seems fairly common, over here at least, for trains to draw forward to offload cycles when necessary, even if that results in a delay to the train - so I don't think it's right to definitively state that a cycle will be overcarried in these circumstances!

 

[Rich McLean]

It seems fairly common, over here at least, for trains to draw forward to offload cycles when necessary, even if that results in a delay to the train - so I don't think it's right to definitively state that a cycle will be overcarried in these circumstances!

Your correct, wherever possible, however it depends on circumstances at the time

 

[LowLevel]

I got on an 8-carriage HST today from Worcester Foregate Street to Evesham today. I put my bike in the designated area, right at the back of the train, in the rear power car, like I'm supposed to.

At Evesham, due to being a short platform, only the front five or six carriages were on the platform.

I was unable to remove my bike. Thankfully, the guard was available so I spoke to him.

I was a bit miffed that the guard said I "should have put my bike towards the front of the train", but nobody told me this when I got on the train and put my bike in the correct area, I didn't expect there would be a problem!

Anyway, I spoke to the the guard and he allowed the train to shunt forward so I could get my bike off (There was a ten-minute waiting time at Evesham, so we had time to do this).

Is this normal practice, the shunting the train forward like this?

And, say we hadn't been allowed to shunt the train forward, and I'd been forced to get off at the next stop and double back to Evesham. Could I sue the train company for my lost time, lost appointments, etc, given the fact they hadn't told me to put my bike further towards the front of the train when I boarded and therefore it was impossible to remove my bike?

Always ask before loading something like a bike on. If you walk purposefully to the van with your bike the staff will assume you know what you're doing and not chase after you except later to check the doors are secure. If you say 'hello, I'm travelling to Evesham, where shall I put my bike(or Paddington or anywhere else)' they have an opportunity to put you right if they know their stuff, which they should.

 

[Wyvern]

If you walk purposefully to the van with your bike the staff will assume you know what you're doing and not chase after you except later to check the doors are secure.

FRom what has just been written, surely if you're seen near the power car door by yourself, particularly opening it, you'll get an earful from the staff. Wouldn't it need a T key anyway?

 

[quarella]

I haven't used an HST calling at a short platform for some time but the window label used to highlight the stations with short platforms. If I saw the station I wanted was indicated and I had a bike I would query the arrangements with a member of the traincrew fairly early in the trip.

 

[83G/84D]

Bicycles mainly go in the TGS, the power car storage area is not normally used and the sliding doors are locked as far as I know.

 

[LowLevel]

FRom what has just been written, surely if you're seen near the power car door by yourself, particularly opening it, you'll get an earful from the staff. Wouldn't it need a T key anyway?

I suspect the chap in question does mean the TGS cage (the van) and not the stowage area in the powercar. The fact they are next to each other always used to cause confusion with my passengers with much frantic heaving on the power car door despite the TGS one having a bike sticker on it. Ho hum.

 

[TUC]

I agree that correct information should have been provided and, had the passenger had to travel onto another station, alternative transport should be provided to get him back where he should have been. I do however find the wider tome of the OP depressing. What is this tendancy in society to take the opportunity to coin it and look for as much compensation as possible?

 

[BestWestern]

You can just open the door on the power car without asking anyone then?

To clarify; no, you can't. You *can* open the door to the cycle area/Guard's van at the end of Coach A, which is adjacent to the power car. This often causes confusion with people who think the power car is where they should be going, but the sliding doors on the power car are locked.

 

[jimm]

Maybe the train manager simply forgot to make an announcement on the approach to Pershore that anyone with a bike travelling to Evesham needed to move it forward from the TGS at that stop - perhaps understandable with today's disruption on FGW services - as this would be the normal practice.

I assume the OP is not in the habit of taking a bike on the train to Evesham, as stopping with the rear of standard class off the end of platform 2 at Evesham is standard procedure, due to the position of the starting signal next to the bridge at the end of the platform. And if you're not in the habit of doing something, it is surely always best to ask a member of staff before boarding?

Elsewhere on the Cotswold Line the TGS will be on the platform in the normal run of things, the only exception being for westbound HSTs that are in reverse formation, where the position of the starting signal at Moreton-in-Marsh (and perhaps Evesham) means they have to stop with first class on the platforms.

Bikes have not been put in the power cars since the ill-fated (aka plain daft) instruction that HSTs were to stop with the front end of the train on the platform at all stations with short platforms after selective door locks were introduced by FGW. As a result, a convoluted bike rack was fitted in the power cars, but after a few weeks of complaints from first class passengers about people tramping through the coaches at every stop on a short platform and queues forming at the few standard class doors that were unlocked at some stations, delaying departures, the policy was dropped and the old system of stopping with the TGS end of the train on the platform was reinstated, except in the few cases where signal position did not permit this, platform 2 at Evesham included.

 

[cjmillsnun]

Worst case, should the bike not be wheeled through the coach itself *shock horror at the thought of a bike going through passenger accommodation*

 

[yorkie]

And, say we hadn't been allowed to shunt the train forward, and I'd been forced to get off at the next stop and double back to Evesham. Could I sue the train company for my lost time, lost appointments, etc, given the fact they hadn't told me to put my bike further towards the front of the train when I boarded and therefore it was impossible to remove my bike?

No, but you may have been given some delay compensation (for future reference, write a nice letter, at least initially!). They would not be liable for any consequential losses.

 

[Stompehh]

Worst case, should the bike not be wheeled through the coach itself *shock horror at the thought of a bike going through passenger accommodation*

The cycle storage on FGW HSTs is only accessible from the outside - it has a separate door.

 

[Flamingo]

As an example I work, Kemble on the up, the TGS is not platformed (if in correct formation), so bikes go in the vestibules of the carriages that will be platformed.

If I might refer the OP to this booklet https://www.firstgreatwestern.co.uk...icy/Cycle-by-train-May-2013-for-Web.pdf?la=en
Or
This webpage https://www.firstgreatwestern.co.uk/About-Us/Customer-services/Cycling-policy

Especially the bit that says

. Inform the Train Manager of your destination
This is vital. He or she will make sure you have access to the cycle storage and ensure there is enough time to unload your cycle.

We're good, but not mind-readers and we don't have eyes in the back of our heads...
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Worst case, should the bike not be wheeled through the coach itself *shock horror at the thought of a bike going through passenger accommodation*

You'd struggle to get a bike through the TM's office, it has offset doors and a seat in the way (and now a bloody big WiFi cabinet)...

 

[Hyphen]

(and now a bloody big WiFi cabinet)...

Sorry for taking this off topic, but I thought the WiFi equipment was going where the Volo TV backend stuff was previously located (i.e. on the luggage rack in the middle of the coach)? If the WiFi has a single controller located in Coach A, that's going to make shunting different coaches around (and shortening services) rather fun...!

That was what Volo's Twitter feed was telling people anyway, whilst continuing to openly slate FGW for killing their business...

 

[Flamingo]

Every HST has to have a TGS, where the main control box is (about the size of a small sideboard) and then there is a relay box in each carriage.

As regards the Volo TV, when it was a pay service nobody wanted to pay for it...

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think Volo TV was perhaps a bit late. In my view "in-flight" entertainment of that type will die out on whatever mode of transport, because increasingly people will just take their own tablet. What people will want is a power socket and Wifi.

Neil

 

[satisnek]

Two questions:

1. If I want to take my bike to Evesham, where exactly do I put it on an HST? (I've done Worcester-Pershore and Worcester-Reading with my bike in the past, with it stowed in the TGS as normal.)

2. Now that Evesham is double track at the London end, why can't HSTs stop with the TGS on the platform? Why wasn't this considered when the new signalling was planned (with a banner repeater installed if necessary)?

 

[Flamingo]

1. ask the Train Manager or platform staff when boarding.
2. No idea, but I guess it was down to cost.

 

[jimm]

Two questions:

1. If I want to take my bike to Evesham, where exactly do I put it on an HST? (I've done Worcester-Pershore and Worcester-Reading with my bike in the past, with it stowed in the TGS as normal.)

2. Now that Evesham is double track at the London end, why can't HSTs stop with the TGS on the platform? Why wasn't this considered when the new signalling was planned (with a banner repeater installed if necessary)?

As noted above, ask the train manager where is the best place for a bike before you board the train at Worcester. They may want it in the TGS as far as Pershore (assuming the train stops there) but which doors will be opened at Evesham depends on the formation of the individual HST, so there is no definitive answer.

For a clear answer on the signals, you would probably need one of the engineers who worked on the actual project but I suspect there are issues over sighting of the signal which a repeater would not solve, even with double track now in place. Plus it is clearly a tricky location for drivers anyway, with bridges at either end of the station. And given that the majority of services using the station are worked by trains that fit on the platform (Turbos and 180s) it probably wasn't seen as a key priority to get the TGS on the platform, especially with IEP to come, with bike storage throughout the train.

 

[thelongestroad]

Could I sue the train company for my lost time, lost appointments, etc,

We all need a good laugh now and again... I assume you are joking, so good one, thanks for making my day.

 

[satisnek]

1. ask the Train Manager or platform staff when boarding.
2. No idea, but I guess it was down to cost.

As noted above, ask the train manager where is the best place for a bike before you board the train at Worcester. They may want it in the TGS as far as Pershore (assuming the train stops there) but which doors will be opened at Evesham depends on the formation of the individual HST, so there is no definitive answer.

For a clear answer on the signals, you would probably need one of the engineers who worked on the actual project but I suspect there are issues over sighting of the signal which a repeater would not solve, even with double track now in place. Plus it is clearly a tricky location for drivers anyway, with bridges at either end of the station. And given that the majority of services using the station are worked by trains that fit on the platform (Turbos and 180s) it probably wasn't seen as a key priority to get the TGS on the platform, especially with IEP to come, with bike storage throughout the train.

Thanks!