Unable to get a first class excess issued

[Bungle965]

Dear Sir/Madam,

Recently I have been having problems trying to get my Littleborough to Appley Brdige season ticket excessed from standard to first when travelling between either Manchester and Wigan North Western or Salford Crescent and Bolton. I have gone to the ticket offices at both Manchester and Salford before the journey to excess my ticket to first class and at both ticket offices I have had similar, negative, outcomes.

Manchester Oxford Road: The ticket office member off staff told me that he knew how to do it but was not willing to sell it me and told me that i have to buy it on board, I showed him the National Rail page for upgrading season tickets to first class but he simply said I dont care im not issuing it to you.

Salford crescent: I asked the member off staff for a standard-first upgrade between Salford and Bolton he looked at the ticket and said that you can not do that, when enquirng why he said that it was not from Littleborough to Appley Bridge and so could not upgrade, I did try to explain and was willing to show him the NRE page, but he dismissed this and simply said "Next Please" indicating for the next customer to come forward. At that point I asked what him name was as he was sat in a coat with no name badge i did not know, he refused to give it me.

Before taking this case to customer services, was the ticket office correct to refuse the excess and is this the right course of action to be taking.
Thanks for any help
Sam

 

[yorkie]

It's not right.

If writing to Northern you need to ask them if it's their policy to issue these excesses or not, and if it is, can they please ensure staff are trained/briefed appropriately. (they might not give such assurances, but it may prompt them to do something) Also provide the details of when you were refused at Salford Crescent as they may want to investigate that further.

I'd also write to TPE, missing out the last sentence of the Salford Crescent paragraph, and ending with a final paragraph asking if it is acceptable to simply buy the excess ticket on board in future. If they say it is, then problem solved. If they say it isn't, then we need to look at Northern's response before deciding what steps to take next.

Obviously it would be good to avoid you wasting your time in future, but if TPE say the ticket should be bought before boarding, then that obligates you to ask for it, but if they refuse or are unable to issue it, there is no "opportunity to buy" before boarding which then entitles you to buy on board as per the NRCoC.

 

[Bungle965]

It's not right.

If writing to Northern you need to ask them if it's their policy to issue these excesses or not, and if it is, can they please ensure staff are trained/briefed appropriately. (they might not give such assurances, but it may prompt them to do something) Also provide the details of when you were refused at Salford Crescent as they may want to investigate that further.

I'd also write to TPE, missing out the last sentence of the Salford Crescent paragraph, and ending with a final paragraph asking if it is acceptable to simply buy the excess ticket on board in future. If they say it is, then problem solved. If they say it isn't, then we need to look at Northern's response before deciding what steps to take next.

Obviously it would be good to avoid you wasting your time in future, but if TPE say the ticket should be bought before boarding, then that obligates you to ask for it, but if they refuse or are unable to issue it, there is no "opportunity to buy" before boarding which then entitles you to buy on board as per the NRCoC.

I shall add that in thank you.
I have actually contacted TPE about another issue again about Manchester Oxford Road not wanting me to sell me an upgrade, and as a consequence i have had a tpe guard be quite aggressively to me and tell me about his 30 years experience and that he knows what he is talking about that i should have bought the ticket at the station but he refused to believe that and i had ti pay £3 for a anytime 1st single to Bolton, i have since contacted TPE who assured me that things would get sorted out they have sent me £5 in RTV as a goodwill gift. And if i come up against a TPE guard who will not sell me a excess from Oxford Road i have simply got to show them a email from TPE CS saying that i should be sold the excess.

 

[Merseysider]

I think I know who you had at Salford Crescent. He's a particularly poor employee that doesn't represent the rest of the great staff at Northern.

The lack of a first class fare for the through journey from Littleborough complicates matters slightly.

Perhaps you could write to TPE requesting that they introduce First Class fares for some of the journeys you make? They still haven't got round to creating Stalybridge - Wigan 1st fares though so you may be waiting a while.

 

[Bungle965]

I think I know who you had at Salford Crescent. He's a particularly poor employee that doesn't represent the rest of the great staff at Northern.

The lack of a first class fare for the through journey complicates matters slightly.

Perhaps you could write to TPE requesting that they introduce First Class fares for some of the journeys you make? They still haven't got round to creating Stalybridge - Wigan 1st fares though so you may be waiting a while.

No there are first class fares available for Salford to Bolton.
Sam

 

[Hadders]

These ticket office staff should see what's happening to their colleagues at Thameslink.

 

[185143]

I think I know who you had at Salford Crescent. He's a particularly poor employee that doesn't represent the rest of the great staff at Northern.

The lack of a first class fare for the through journey complicates matters slightly.

Perhaps you could write to TPE requesting that they introduce First Class fares for some of the journeys you make? They still haven't got round to creating Stalybridge - Wigan 1st fares though so you may be waiting a while.

No there are first class fares available for Salford to Bolton.
Sam

I think he means for the journey of your season ticket?

 

[Merseysider]

I think he means for the journey of your season ticket?

Exactly

 

[Bungle965]

Exactly

Oopps sorry my mistake.
Sam

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Back in the day, when we had paper NFM manuals, it was permitted to create First Class fares where no fare existed, but that's progress for you.....

 

[Starmill]

Presumably it isn't outwith the rules to issue First Class Excesses for shorter journeys than on the ticket though?

 

[Solent&Wessex]

I shall add that in thank you.
I have actually contacted TPE about another issue again about Manchester Oxford Road not wanting me to sell me an upgrade, and as a consequence i have had a tpe guard be quite aggressively to me and tell me about his 30 years experience and that he knows what he is talking about that i should have bought the ticket at the station but he refused to believe that and i had ti pay £3 for a anytime 1st single to Bolton, i have since contacted TPE who assured me that things would get sorted out they have sent me £5 in RTV as a goodwill gift. And if i come up against a TPE guard who will not sell me a excess from Oxford Road i have simply got to show them a email from TPE CS saying that i should be sold the excess.

Not that long ago in the grand scheme of things there was a poster displayed in the first class compartments which said that season ticket holders could not upgrade on board at all. I believe it was meant to discourage the "pay only when challenged" brigade who would park themselves in first class every day knowing that a) the chance of getting checked was slim and b) if they did the difference between SDS and FDS was minimal (which for many short journeys, especially round the GM area it is). As ongoing retail training and briefing has for many years reportedly been woefully inadequate (read - "non existent") then it is very easy for incorrect information to be spread by word of mouth and like other gossip and rumour, if it is repeated enough it becomes regarded as fact. There have been many such inaccurate things doing the rounds for some time with no real formal channels to confirm or dispel them.

Although technically from the sound of it he was correct, if there was an opportunity to pay then you must buy before boarding. Although I would hope with all that alleged experience he would know what I know, which that the booking office at MCO is hopeless.

Presumably it isn't outwith the rules to issue First Class Excesses for shorter journeys than on the ticket though?

I cannot see any reason why a partial excess cannot be issued. The process for ordinary single and return tickets is somewhat complicated in the fares manual and for those tickets it implies it isn't possible, but no such complication seems apparent for season tickets.

I attach sections from the fares manual for reference.

 

[Bayum]

Please ask someone to cross check the letter before it is sent off.

I don't mind doing that asking as the information given on the forum is said to be correct. Just post in the thread because I very rarely log in and read PMs.