Unable to collect ticket on departure (from machine)

[trebor79]

If the people who want to stick to CCST pay the full cost to maintain that system, that's fine by me!

e-tickets are no slower at gates than paper tickets in my experience and I've never had a 20 minute wait for an e-ticket!

I find it takes people far longer and usually multiple goes with e tickets, particularly if they are on a phone and trying to avoid scratching the phone screen. CCST you shove it in the slot and start stepping forward, gate opens and you pick the ticket up.

 

[Haywain]

Why? If you're happy with eTicket what's wrong with me using CCST?

Because the industry wants to do away with expensive, inefficient and outdated 1980s technology.

 

[Southern Beau]

Because the industry wants to do away with expensive, inefficient and outdated 1980s technology.

Can you confirm the annual cost of running/maintaining a current TVM?

There must be other 1980’s (or older) technology being employed in the rail industry which is outdated too!

 

[trebor79]

Because the industry wants to do away with expensive, inefficient and outdated 1980s technology.

I don't remember seeing many touchscreen ticket machines that took card payments in the 1980s. There was the Quickfare which offered a limited selection of tickets to about 30 destinations and took coins (and perhaps notes, I can't remember).
It's just a computer and printer in a cabinet. Akin to the self service checkouts at the supermarket.
Perhaps the railway could save money by nit having multiple different machines from multiple manufacturers and just buy one standard machine in future?

 

[Haywain]

Can you confirm the annual cost of running/maintaining a current TVM?

That is not information I would be prepared to pass on even if I had access to it. However, it is significantly more than not operating one. And CCST is more expensive than eTickets for all retailers.

 

[yorkie]

I find it takes people far longer and usually multiple goes with e tickets, particularly if they are on a phone and trying to avoid scratching the phone screen. CCST you shove it in the slot and start stepping forward, gate opens and you pick the ticket up.

If you get yourself to a forum meal at a location with barriers, I'll give you a race sometime and if you beat me I will buy you a drink

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 26 Jul 2022 ==

Can you confirm the annual cost of running/maintaining a current TVM?

It will be a lot.

The revenues from them will be rapidly declining too (an operator that puts a TVM in place collects a fee every time someone collects a ticket from it; this fee is paid by the retailer, so when using TOD for low value tickets, you should use a retailer you don't like, as they will be making a loss! ) as the number of TOD collections from such machines has absolutely plummeted lately as the proportion of people choosing TOD has declined.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 26 Jul 2022 ==

I don't remember seeing many touchscreen ticket machines that took card payments in the 1980s.

That's not quite what @Haywain meant; he was referring to the concept of magnetic stripe ticketing being a 1980s era format.

TVMs are a late 1990s concept but they are very much built around the 1980s ticketing format.

 

[Wallsendmag]

I don't remember seeing many touchscreen ticket machines that took card payments in the 1980s. There was the Quickfare which offered a limited selection of tickets to about 30 destinations and took coins (and perhaps notes, I can't remember).
It's just a computer and printer in a cabinet. Akin to the self service checkouts at the supermarket.
Perhaps the railway could save money by nit having multiple different machines from multiple manufacturers and just buy one standard machine in future?

CCST not the TVMs.

 

[DelayRepay]

The revenues from them will be rapidly declining too (an operator that puts a TVM in place collects a fee every time someone collects a ticket from it; this fee is paid by the retailer, so when using TOD for low value tickets, you should use a retailer you don't like, as they will be making a loss! ) as the number of TOD collections from such machines has absolutely plummeted lately as the proportion of people choosing TOD has declined.

Indeed - I used to use TOD for every journey. Now the only time I use TOD is (i) work journeys where our company travel agent doesn't offer any other option and (ii) journeys that don't offer an e-ticket, for me these are typically journeys that involve London Underground.

I find it takes people far longer and usually multiple goes with e tickets, particularly if they are on a phone and trying to avoid scratching the phone screen. CCST you shove it in the slot and start stepping forward, gate opens and you pick the ticket up.

Have you ever used an e-ticket, becuse it shouldn't take longer.

CCST: You have to go to your wallet and extract the correct ticket, usually from a collection of tickets, reservation coupons and receipts. I think most people do this before the barrier so they can just shove the ticket through.

E-Ticket: You have to unlock your phone, open an app and select the ticket, which are usually presented in date order. As with CCST, you should do this before approaching the barrier. You then just wave your phone at the scanner (no need for your phone to touch the scanner).

Personally I find e-tickets quicker. It took me ages to convert because I always booked TOD out of habit. My first e-ticket was booked by accident, but since then I've tried to avoid TOD and get a bit cross when I have to use it to make a journey where e-tickets aren't currently available.

 

[trebor79]

If you get yourself to a forum meal at a location with barriers, I'll give you a race sometime and if you beat me I will buy you a drink

You're on. Pint of Brakspears Bitter or Ruddles County please!

 

[plugwash]

If TOCs want to keep their penalty fares schemes they will presumablly need to keep their TVMs, I guess there will be some savings from replacing the CCST printer with a printer for a cheaper ticket format, but the rest of the cost will remain.

 

[Wallsendmag]

E-Ticket: You have to unlock your phone, open an app and select the ticket, which are usually presented in date order. As with CCST, you should do this before approaching the barrier. You then just wave your phone at the scanner (no need for your phone to touch the scanner).

It's even quicker if you add the eTicket to your wallet just double tap the side button on your phone and select it. Plus once again you shouldn't need to keep an eTicket in an app.

 

[DelayRepay]

It's even quicker if you add the eTicket to your wallet just double tap the side button on your phone and select it. Plus once again you shouldn't need to keep an eTicket in an app.

I do add them to my wallet - that's the app I open. But on my phone a double tap on the side button opens the camera.

 

[Haywain]

I do add them to my wallet - that's the app I open. But on my phone a double tap on the side button opens the camera.

You can change that so that it opens the wallet.

 

[Llandudno]

Can you confirm the annual cost of running/maintaining a current TVM?

There must be other 1980’s (or older) technology being employed in the rail industry which is outdated too!

and working practices…..!

 

[62484GlenLyon]

Absolutely. Once you have the nack for where to place your phone on the scanner, I’d say it’s even quicker than CCST as you wait for it to run through the barrier and you subsequently having to pick it back up.

I agree - since I started locking my phone orientation I have breezed through the barriers at every station where I have used an e-ticket.

 

[Joe Paxton]

I haven't had a great deal of success the times I've tried to scan printed e-tickets at the barriers (and I've been careful not to fold the paper where the Aztec code is). When scanned by guards on board they haven't had any difficulty.

 

[317 forever]

When TVMs are deliberately not repaired when broken so as to force people to use e-tickets phased out, what are you supposed to do if you arrive at a station without having purchased a ticket beforehand, and where there are no ticket issuing facilities.

Your phone might be broken/stolen/not working, or there is no internet access to enable you to buy a ticket online.

You could say buy on board from the guard, but if the majority of stations do not have TVMs, and it is a busy train, the guard will not be able to get round and sell everyone a ticket in time.

Then there will a large queue at the destination station there will be a large queue for people to buy tickets to get through the barrier, and it will encourage short faring. (eg. there is an unpaid fares window in the Red Lounge at Birmingham New Street, but as it is at concourse level the person selling the ticket won't know, or be able to prove, whether you have come from Five Ways or London Euston)

If a ticket machine is genuinely not working and you have your fast ticket reference preferably with itinerary, I see no reason why this should be rejected. You would have done nothing wrong.