UK trains with longitudinal seating

[beanwalls]

Hello,

I am planning a short film that is set on a train, and longitudinal seating is what will work best to tell the story.

I am London based and the Underground trains are the obvious choice but they wouldn't work as a character talks on his mobile phone in the story and that's not possible on the tube. The Overground trains would do the trick but, like most public transport in London, they are incredibly busy almost all the time, making it harder to film. It is also very expensive to get permission to film from TFL, with an hourly rate that is way beyond the budget of my almost no budget short film. On top of that, I'd actually much rather film in another part of the country as London is seen on screen way too much.

But are there trains other than London that could work? Does anyone know of other trains with longitudinal seating?
Any advice most welcome!

Thanks all!

 

[Esker-pades]

Class 345s (the new CrossRail rolling stock). However, that may still fail the TfL expense hurdle.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The end section of a Northern Pacer or Class 150/1?

 

[Fawkes Cat]

The Isle of Wight might suit, although the trains are hardly typical of Britain's railways today: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_483

 

[beanwalls]

Class 345s (the new CrossRail rolling stock). However, that may still fail the TfL expense hurdle.

Thanks but yeah, I think they have the same issues as the Overground trains...

 

[beanwalls]

The end section of a Northern Pacer or Class 150/1?

Sounds interesting. Which line do these run on?

 

[Spartacus]

There's always the Isle of Wight.....

 

[Spartacus]

Trouble with going for the Northern units is that it would be quite hit and miss what was working where, unless you were willing to go to somewhere like Leeds or Man Pic and wait for the right train to turn up, and it be quiet too.

 

[Esker-pades]

There is longitudinal seating at the end of a class 376 (SouthEastern).

 

[beanwalls]

The Isle of Wight might suit, although the trains are hardly typical of Britain's railways today: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_483

Thanks! But yes, they look very old fashioned so might look a little odd in a modern day story. Plus getting to the Isle of Wight might be tricky. I'll do some investigating though...

 

[beanwalls]

Trouble with going for the Northern units is that it would be quite hit and miss what was working where, unless you were willing to go to somewhere like Leeds or Man Pic and wait for the right train to turn up, and it be quiet too.

I would have to get permission from the train company to film and so I'd hope they'd let us use a section with the right seating for at least half a day, going back and forth on the same route.

 

[beanwalls]

There is longitudinal seating at the end of a class 376 (SouthEastern).

Sounds interesting. I'll look into it. Thanks!

 

[gallafent]

I am London based and the Underground trains are the obvious choice but they wouldn't work as a character talks on his mobile phone in the story and that's not possible on the tube.

Well, only 45% of the tube network is in tunnels according to https://tfl.gov.uk/corporate/about-tfl/what-we-do/london-underground/facts-and-figures and of course one can use WiFi calling when in stations … that doesn't solve the expense problem either though! Isle of Wight uses old tube stock, how about that ……… although it's very obviously very old, so unless it's a period piece then that's probably not appropriate either! Hmm ……… does it need to be in the UK, or would any country (with English-language signage, I guess, depending on how you're planning the shots even that might be up for grabs) do? That might stretch the budget too far too of course, but then again, with a cheap flight to somewhere with low living costs, and factoring the free holiday thrown in, it might start to add up

How about the Glasgow underg………… oh yes, using a phone! — probably worth looking through images of the various metro systems though, e.g. Merseyrail, the Tyne & Wear metro, … ?

Ah, hmm, are all the crossrail class 345s definitely working for TfL at the moment, or are some of them not yet, I wonder (I'm thinking about the ones running out of Paddington). Somebody here might know. That might get round the TfL filming costs, if they are currently working for a different operator (would be GWR I guess). A long shot and probably they are all just TfL in fact.

Perhaps a class 230 (the ongoing conversion of the old District Line trains by Vivarail for main line use) could work, though it's possible they're all converted not to have longitudinal seating any more.

Good luck with the project

 

[Taunton]

Have a word with Geoff Marshall, he does plenty of filming on the Under/Over Ground, and I doubt he's ever paid TfL anything.

 

[beanwalls]

Well, only 45% of the tube network is in tunnels according to https://tfl.gov.uk/corporate/about-tfl/what-we-do/london-underground/facts-and-figures and of course one can use WiFi calling when in stations … that doesn't solve the expense problem either though! Isle of Wight uses old tube stock, how about that ……… although it's very obviously very old, so unless it's a period piece then that's probably not appropriate either! Hmm ……… does it need to be in the UK, or would any country (with English-language signage, I guess, depending on how you're planning the shots even that might be up for grabs) do? That might stretch the budget too far too of course, but then again, with a cheap flight to somewhere with low living costs, and factoring the free holiday thrown in, it might start to add up

How about the Glasgow underg………… oh yes, using a phone! — probably worth looking through images of the various metro systems though, e.g. Merseyrail, the Tyne & Wear metro, … ?

Ah, hmm, are all the crossrail class 345s definitely working for TfL at the moment, or are some of them not yet, I wonder (I'm thinking about the ones running out of Paddington). Somebody here might know. That might get round the TfL filming costs, if they are currently working for a different operator (would be GWR I guess). A long shot and probably they are all just TfL in fact.

Perhaps a class 230 (the ongoing conversion of the old District Line trains by Vivarail for main line use) could work, though it's possible they're all converted not to have longitudinal seating any more.

Good luck with the project

I'm not against leaving the country to shoot, or using another language, but yes it would add expenses (I doubt as much as TFL charges though) and I would look to cast local actors and possibly get local crew rather than dragging people with me. Shooting in UK would be easier but it's an option...

I'll look into the other suggestions too. Thanks!

 

[beanwalls]

Have a word with Geoff Marshall, he does plenty of filming on the Under/Over Ground, and I doubt he's ever paid TfL anything.

Can you point me in the direction of Geoff?

 

[iphone76]

There is also a small area of longitudinal seating on the Class 317s and 321s out of Liverpool Street. On a 321 it is the area behind the driver away from the 1st class area.

 

[Taunton]

Can you point me in the direction of Geoff?

https://twitter.com/geofftech?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^author

 

[ge-gn]

Lounge car of the Caledonian sleeper?

 

[LLivery]

SWR 455s (older Red trains) have a bit of longitudinal in a middle car. Get on in the middle of the day at Hampton Court, Chessington or Shepperton and it'll be empty.

Edit: Pic of it here (few seats out of shot): https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:455901_DTSO_Interior.jpg

 

[beanwalls]

https://twitter.com/geofftech?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^author

Thanks. I think he can get away with filming for free because it's just him filming himself. I'd have at least a cinematographer, sound recordist, and two actors.

 

[beanwalls]

Lounge car of the Caledonian sleeper?

Looks wonderful. But doesn't quite fit the story. I need ordinary day to day commuter style trains I think.

 

[beanwalls]

SWR 455s (older Red trains) have a bit of longitudinal in a middle car. Get on in the middle of the day at Hampton Court, Chessington or Shepperton and it'll be empty.

Edit: Pic of it here (few seats out of shot): https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:455901_DTSO_Interior.jpg

Thanks. I'll check them out too.

 

[beanwalls]

Does this mean that there aren't any trains in the UK (besides TFL run) with full longitudinal seating? Everything suggested so far has only small sections of it in some carriages. I'm surprised that local commuter trains (or trams?) in other major cities don't use this style too.

 

[GB71]

The TPE class 185 fleet has a few pull down longitudanal seats behind or in front of the first class section dependent on which way round it is

 

[krus_aragon]

Does this mean that there aren't any trains in the UK (besides TFL run) with full longitudinal seating? Everything suggested so far has only small sections of it in some carriages. I'm surprised that local commuter trains (or trams?) in other major cities don't use this style too.

Outside of TfL and similar operations, it seems the approach to commuter trains has been to put in more seats for commuters (3+2 seats across) rather than fewer.

 

[Royston Vasey]

There is also a small area of longitudinal seating on the Class 317s and 321s out of Liverpool Street. On a 321 it is the area behind the driver away from the 1st class area.

Not all of them I think, the 317/5s (red doors) definitely do but I don’t think the ex-Great Northern units (/3s) do but I could be wrong.

This would be my shout as if you’re getting on a Liverpool Street stopper at Cambridge in the daytime, it will always be quiet for at least the first half hour or so. Filming by the cab ensures nobody is going to be walking through as there’s no thoroughfare (I don’t think they open the inter unit doors these days anyway)

 

[LLivery]

Does this mean that there aren't any trains in the UK (besides TFL run) with full longitudinal seating? Everything suggested so far has only small sections of it in some carriages. I'm surprised that local commuter trains (or trams?) in other major cities don't use this style too.

The only other option is the Glasgow Subway. People tend to want more seats, not longitudinal. The answer has always been longer or more frequent trains. London Overground trains are the first on the main network to feature fully longitudinal. Operators seemingly have no desire to follow suit.

 

[DanNCL]

Does this mean that there aren't any trains in the UK (besides TFL run) with full longitudinal seating? Everything suggested so far has only small sections of it in some carriages. I'm surprised that local commuter trains (or trams?) in other major cities don't use this style too.

The Glasgow Subway stock has fully longitudinal seating. The Tyne and Wear Metro units also have a reasonably sized area of longitudinal seating.

 

[jopsuk]

Speak to Greater Anglia. Their Class 317/1 and 317/5 fleets used on some services from Liverpool Street to Hertford, Bishops Stortford & Cambridge have a section of longitudinal seating in one end carriage.