UK terror threat level raised to 'Severe'

[455driver]

But none of you has asked the important question!

Did they have to change the bulb?














If you dont watch Red Dwarf you wont understand.

 

[bb21]

It is pretty easy to tell. It's published.

https://www.mi5.gov.uk/home/the-threats/terrorism/threat-levels.html#history since 2006. (As I said, visitors to a long list of public buildings could have seen the threat level on door signs before that)

I think you misunderstood me.

Of course it is published, but why give it headline status rather than burying it amongst many of the other ones which hardly get a mention on the homepage? Who decided to give it headline status and why was the level revised now, at this specific point in time? This change in supposed threat levels hardly means much to the average man on the street so hardly that important.

Maybe that is down to people's cynicism, maybe it was all down to the BBC, maybe the government was being clever in the timing, and maybe it was a mixture of all the above and more.

Simple cynicism is a fair starting point - though, for some, it seems to have become the only analytical tool they are capable of using - but this sort of assertion is plain daft. There has been a system of classifying the current risk of terrorism in place since before I started work, in 1978. For many years, it has been official policy to make a brief public statement when the level has changed, whether or not it is for the worse. This is in no way a "leak", which implies some ulterior motive.

Oh, absolutely. I was only trying to see things from the more cynical angle and although I don't totally agree, I can sympathise with that view.

While automatically assuming the position of the cynic one is a naive move, it is equally so to dismiss any such suggestion outright, whilst for the vast majority, it is simply a matter of "having more important things in life to worry about".

I probably sound like a cynic now.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Simple cynicism is a fair starting point - though, for some, it seems to have become the only analytical tool they are capable of using - but this sort of assertion is plain daft.

I'm not sure who that's referring to?

The "terrorism threat level" is a matter of public record, it isn't leaked and it isn't a secret.

But the question is why has it been changed now? There are one of three reasons, and I'll let others decide how credible they are:
1. The spooks have discovered a genuine new terror threat and want to warn us about it, but they haven't got around to arresting anyone yet.
2. The spooks don't have a clue what's going on, but they think something must be.
3. The spooks have been repeatedly embarrassed in recent times, by Snowden and Wikileaks, and feel that the best way of preventing scrutiny is to say WOAH TERRORISM.

For me, it's a combination of 2 and 3. The spooks don't have a clue what's going on, despite all the needless surveillance we're all under, and they know that if people dig too deeply they'll realise MI5 and MI6 are basically useless. Raising the terror threat, to justify less scrutiny from the media, is a case of backside-covering. It has the added advantage of protecting the politicians, too, as the Australian govenment recently used anti-terrorism legislation to prevent stories about corruption in their civil service being printed in Australia.

I normally link to this BBC blog by Adam Curtis when talking about the spooks, as the stories are amusing yet strangely depressing: http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/adamcurtis/posts/BUGGER

 

[Abpj17]

Most of the answers to your questions are on the website.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/threat-level-from-international-terrorism-increased is the press release associated with the change in level.

From memory, the decision maker is the civil service machinery not politicians. The threat level does mean stuff for critical national infrastructure including transport. It can drive the nature and magnitude of security checks undertaken for example and the security provided for big events.

Threat levels in themselves do not require specific responses from the public. They are a tool for security practitioners working across different sectors of what we call the Critical National Infrastructure and the police to use in determining what protective security response may be required. By its very nature, intelligence cannot be revealed completely and there will always be limitations to what we can say about security and the responses we have planned.

It can be a little surreal in the UK - especially London - because there hasn't been a time when there wasn't at least a significant threat. The IRA threats were swiftly replaced by other threats.

By definition, it is the press that decide on the priority of their stories.

 

[Oswyntail]

I'm not sure who that's referring to?
....
But the question is why has it been changed now? There are one of three reasons, and I'll let others decide how credible they are:
1. The spooks have discovered a genuine new terror threat and want to warn us about it, but they haven't got around to arresting anyone yet.
2. The spooks don't have a clue what's going on, but they think something must be.
3. The spooks have been repeatedly embarrassed in recent times, by Snowden and Wikileaks, and feel that the best way of preventing scrutiny is to say WOAH TERRORISM.

For me, it's a combination of 2 and 3.......

Well, there you have it. A perfect example of cynicism getting in the way of clear thinking. You favour the cynical explanations without any clear evidence (other than blogs by fellow cynics) and dismiss the first without giving any reason (PS - if a crime has not been committed in this country yet, arrest isn't really an option).
I don't have enough direct evidence to assess any of the three options fully. But the spooks I have known over the years have tended to be like most other people - trying to do the job they are paid for to the best of their ability, which in some cases is very well indeed, in others perhaps less so - and upright enough not to make up stories to divert attention. So I am willing to take note of their warning, and go about my daily business.

 

[fowler9]

Well, there you have it. A perfect example of cynicism getting in the way of clear thinking. You favour the cynical explanations without any clear evidence (other than blogs by fellow cynics) and dismiss the first without giving any reason (PS - if a crime has not been committed in this country yet, arrest isn't really an option).
I don't have enough direct evidence to assess any of the three options fully. But the spooks I have known over the years have tended to be like most other people - trying to do the job they are paid for to the best of their ability, which in some cases is very well indeed, in others perhaps less so - and upright enough not to make up stories to divert attention. So I am willing to take note of their warning, and go about my daily business.

At the end of the day as you said you have no direct evidence. The spooks you know are doing their best to keep themselves in work. You are at no more risk today than you were yesterday and even if you were at more risk what the hell are you going to do about it?

 

[SS4]

But none of you has asked the important question!

Did they have to change the bulb?














If you dont watch Red Dwarf you wont understand.

At least they haven't gone to Brown alert

 

[Oswyntail]

At the end of the day as you said you have no direct evidence.

No, but neither do the cynics finding conspiracies under every stone

The spooks you know are doing their best to keep themselves in work.

Yes, but not by making up or exaggerating stories.

You are at no more risk today than you were yesterday

Not according to the assessment that led to the upgrading.

and even if you were at more risk what the hell are you going to do about it?

Well, as any responsible citizen would, I can keep an eye out for suspicious and criminal behaviour, and report it to the proper authorities if necessary. Not go out of my way looking for trouble.

 

[455driver]

I am hearing that the Australians have raised their alert status to 'bloody annoyed' which is only one level below 'cancel the Barbie', so it is being taken very seriously over there as well.

 

[Johnuk123]

The spooks don't have a clue what's going on, despite all the needless surveillance we're all under, and they know that if people dig too deeply they'll realise MI5 and MI6 are basically useless.

Well you're wrong there ,very wrong.
I have been to countless meetings and briefings over the years with several agencies and Government departments.
I can assure you the people who work in both of those agencies you mention are not useless and have an absolutely brilliant recent record.

When 9/11 happened MI6 had 24 agents involved with counter-terrorism now they have over a 1,000 and I doubt even 1 could be described as useless.

 

[455driver]

When 9/11 happened MI6 had 24 agents involved with counter-terrorism now they have over a 1,000 and I doubt even 1 could be described as useless.

Blimey, dont they know there is a recession on!

 

[ralphchadkirk]

Blimey, dont they know there is a recession on!

They've got less than 4,000 employees overall so I think 1,000 people in the Counter Terrorism department might be a little bit of exaggeration!

 

[GatwickDepress]

Blimey, dont they know there is a recession on!

Probably just roped in the work experience kids to bolster the numbers.

 

[fowler9]

No, but neither do the cynics finding conspiracies under every stone Yes, but not by making up or exaggerating stories. Not according to the assessment that led to the upgrading.Well, as any responsible citizen would, I can keep an eye out for suspicious and criminal behaviour, and report it to the proper authorities if necessary. Not go out of my way looking for trouble.

Well I work with the MOD and the ramping up of security over recent weeks has been obvious by its complete absence. I guess we are just cannon fodder in our office. If we have a serious issue with terrorism in this country it is probably more related to our politicians not knowing which side they are on.

 

[Johnuk123]

They've got less than 4,000 employees overall so I think 1,000 people in the Counter Terrorism department might be a little bit of exaggeration!

MI6 has over 1,000 agents/operatives world-wide working in that area.

Your 4000 figure is wrong also as it's too many, MI5 is nearer that figure with this years 324 new recruits.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

MI6 has over 1,000 agents/operatives world-wide working in that area.

Your 4000 figure is wrong also as it's too many, MI5 is nearer that figure with this years 324 new recruits.

You're right, my apologies, I misread MI6 as MI5.

 

[Flamingo]

Well I work with the MOD and the ramping up of security over recent weeks has been obvious by its complete absence. I guess we are just cannon fodder in our office.

You said it ....

 

[muz379]

I dont know why the cynicism about this , this information has been published for years , the press is the one who whips up the hysteria as they decide how much attention they give to these announcements .I think following the beheading of James Foley and the revelations in the media that loads of British citizens have gone to Syria and possibly Iraq to fight with IS militants the press is once again getting into a frenzy about Islamic extremists . Especially seeing as some of them appear to be homegrown .

Now more than never before the government cant push the press around ,but because of 24 hr news coverage if there is nothing else going on the same story gets covered again and again from as many angles as they can stretch out .


As for the threat level , I do think it is right to suggest the threat has increased because as many as 500 British citizens have gone to fight with IS militants in Syria and Iraq , at some point they might come home battle hardened by what they have seen , and more radicalized than when they left .If they do come home it seems reasonable to me to suggest they might try and plot terror attacks back here .

The other thing that I think is concerning about the fact that 500 have gone to fight is that it sheds light on the levels of radicalization happening in the UK .

Did those London bombings divert media attention from politics ?, if they did then that's the obvious way forward for politics in this country, just hire a few Arab terrorists, give them some bombs and that should make the public miss the next budget, you're so clever you should try running for parliament yourself

The sad thing is there are some conspiracy theorists out there who no doubt think the gov hired some Arab terrorists to blow up London on 7/7 . Just like there are conspiracy theorists who think 9/11 was an inside job .

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The other thing that I think is concerning about the fact that 500 have gone to fight is that it sheds light on the levels of radicalization happening in the UK .

A pity that whilst a fatwa has been issued against the "Bollywood" actor Salman Khan for allowing Madame Tussaud's to make an effigy of him in wax, that British Imams did not immediately issue a fatwa against the young British-born Muslims who went to fight for IS in Iraq and Syria.

The Grand Mufti of Saudi Arabia, Sheikh Abdul Aziz al-Sheikh, has decreed both IS and al-Qaeda to be "the number one enemies of Islam", so there is a precedent for that to have occurred.

 

[muz379]

A pity that whilst a fatwa has been issued against the "Bollywood" actor Salman Khan for allowing Madame Tussaud's to make an effigy of him in wax, that British Imams did not immediately issue a fatwa against the young British-born Muslims who went to fight for IS in Iraq and Syria.

The Grand Mufti of Saudi Arabia, Sheikh Abdul Aziz al-Sheikh, has decreed both IS and al-Qaeda to be "the number one enemies of Islam", so there is a precedent for that to have occurred.

Some Imams have , A friend of mine said at his Mosque the Imam had used incredibly strong language about those responsible for the beheading of James Foley and expressed deep anger and shock that it was a British muslim who had done such a thing

I have also read this in the independent

Muslim leaders have issued a fatwa condemning Islamic extremist group Isis, and have said that British jihadis are “betraying their own societies” by getting involved in the conflicts in Iraq and Syria.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...ue-fatwa-condemning-terror-group-9702042.html

So it is going on but Id agree that it is not visible enough .

My personal thinking on this is that it is not a media priority right now

 

[Tetchytyke]

When 9/11 happened MI6 had 24 agents involved with counter-terrorism now they have over a 1,000 and I doubt even 1 could be described as useless.

1000 people involved in counter-terrorism. All of whom need a "severe" threat of terrorism to justify their jobs. No terrorists means no pay cheque.

Well, there you have it. A perfect example of cynicism getting in the way of clear thinking. You favour the cynical explanations without any clear evidence (other than blogs by fellow cynics) and dismiss the first without giving any reason (PS - if a crime has not been committed in this country yet, arrest isn't really an option).

I generally ignore anyone who says "I know a secret but I'm not allowed to tell you about it". If the spooks have stopped some real genuine terrorists- rather than some sixth former writing rubbish poetry- then lets hear all about it.

I don't think they're deliberately fabricating stories, but when their jobs are inextricably linked to the terror threat level it's hardly a surprise that the threat level only ever seems to go upwards. The threat level has never been below "substantial" in the eight years of the threat level being published. Funny that.

 

[Hornet]

(PS - if a crime has not been committed in this country yet, arrest isn't really an option)

Really? prehaps you would like to pass that pearl of wisdom onto the ACC of Hampshire police, who had the parents of Ashya King arrested under a European Arrest warrant. Can you advise me what law they broke because I, for the life of me cannot see one. (He was not under a protective custody order). Their arrest is more an action of a fascist police state than a democratic society.

Compare that to the disgusting affair that happened in Rotherham where over a thousand young girls were abused by Pakistani men, and the fact that the Police did nothing lest the race card was played.

Now I read Menzies Campbell deems it will be illegal to withdraw the passports of English based jihadist fighting in Syria, lest they be made stateless and infringes their civil rights. Demonise loving parents and ignore vunerable youngsters from abuse seems to be OK in the eyes of the authorities, but the poor old jihadist, we must respect their rights. I don't fear Terrorists, (I spent many days in Northern Ireland in the 80's and 90's, and on more than one occasion stared down the barrel of a British Squaddies rifle at a road checkpoint). I fear Politicians and those in senior levels of authority, for whom all common sense has been lost. TBH they have not got a clue or a grip on reality.

 

[Johnuk123]

1000 people involved in counter-terrorism. All of whom need a "severe" threat of terrorism to justify their jobs. No terrorists means no pay cheque.



I generally ignore anyone who says "I know a secret but I'm not allowed to tell you about it". If the spooks have stopped some real genuine terrorists- rather than some sixth former writing rubbish poetry- then lets hear all about it.

I don't think they're deliberately fabricating stories, but when their jobs are inextricably linked to the terror threat level it's hardly a surprise that the threat level only ever seems to go upwards. The threat level has never been below "substantial" in the eight years of the threat level being published. Funny that.

If you really think that the security services invent and distort the terrorism threat to maintain a high level of employment you are displaying an astounding lack of intelligence.
I think you have a slight agenda against authority it comes out very clearly.
Calling yourself a Troll is probably about right.

 

[Tetchytyke]

If you really think that the security services invent and distort the terrorism threat to maintain a high level of employment you are displaying an astounding lack of intelligence.

Does it? There's plenty of historical examples of the security services inventing or exaggerating threats in order to justify their employment. See the arrest of Iraqi students during the first Gulf War for further details.

I think you have a slight agenda against authority it comes out very clearly.

Ah yes. Because I'm not A Good Little Prole and believe everything David Cameron tells me I must have an anti-authoritarian agenda.

Puh-lease.

 

[ExRes]

Personally I think the Government ought to sit down with a nice cup of tea and watch the boats go past on the Thames, after having biscuits they could shut down the Intelligence services, who are obviously only there to make up little fibs about terrorism, so that anyone wanting to do anything they like wouldn't be troubled by our nasty politicians or their evil dark forces, that Ok with you all ?

 

[dannypye9999]

By 2050 this country will be a majority muslim nation. Did our grandparents die for this? Its time to wake up.

 

[GatwickDepress]

By 2050 this country will be a majority muslim nation. Did our grandparents die for this? Its time to wake up.

 

[carriageline]

By 2050 this country will be a majority muslim nation. Did our grandparents die for this? Its time to wake up.

Are you a member of BNP/British First or whatever they are called?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

By 2050 this country will be a majority Muslim nation. Did our grandparents die for this? Its time to wake up.

If that be the case, Britain will have no-one to blame but a succession of Governments who allowed post-Second World War immigration of cheap Indian sub-continental labour for the British textile industry and other industries, without a thought of the religion of the immigrants and how this could have an effect on the communities where such congregations occurred, noting that large families seemed to be the culturally accepted norm in those immigrant communities. For example, noting that special dispensations appeared to be offered to members of the Commonwealth, may I enquire as to how many times has Pakistan been in and out of the Commonwealth ?

 

[DarloRich]

Why is there even a debate about this? IF we know who these people are round them up. No questions.

If they want to leave the country and fight for someone else they are traitors. Treat them as such. That is doubly so if they want to to come back and subvert the democratically elected government and replace it with some form of government more in tune with their twisted beliefs.

Some people are terribly naive if they think these people are just going to come back into our society and behave like decent chaps. I am not some rabid right winger but sometimes you have to suggest awful things in order to secure our country. These people are dangerous.