cactustwirly
Established Member
But surely that would be very expensive for commuting as you'd be paying for the car whilst it was parked in the office car park whilst at work etc
-
Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
UK switching to electric vehicles discussion
- Thread starter MattA7
- Start date
But surely that would be very expensive for commuting as you'd be paying for the car whilst it was parked in the office car park whilst at work etc
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R
RailUK Forums
Depends if you have one of their parking bays near your work!
SargeNpton
Established Member
- Joined
- 19 Nov 2018
- Messages
- 1,749
Demand for pool cars is uneven, in that at different times the traffic flows will be in different directions. Morning commutes to work would empty the pools in the suburbs and concentrate cars in commercial/industrial areas. That would leave none for the daytime shoppers and those with appointments at hairdressers, doctors, etc.
Meanwhile, in those commercial/industrial areas, there will be little demand for cars parked there until it's time to go home.
Rental e-scooters in my area are a good analogy. The hire company has vans going round to pick up scooters that have congregated in certain places, then drop them off where there is a shortage of them. Not easy to replicate the logistics of that with cars.
johncrossley
Established Member
This author of this article found charging in France to be easier and cheaper on a road trip from Northern Ireland to Nice via the UK mainland:
In other news, https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cr89j514dly2o
For context, this cut would take the duty on unleaded and diesel to the lowest rate since 1997. It's already lower than it was 18 years ago. I understand the cost of living pressures, but constantly freezing fuel duty and VED is hardly going to encourage people to switch. Why not shift some of those freezes onto electricity bills or subsidising charging?
BBC News said:
For context, this cut would take the duty on unleaded and diesel to the lowest rate since 1997. It's already lower than it was 18 years ago. I understand the cost of living pressures, but constantly freezing fuel duty and VED is hardly going to encourage people to switch. Why not shift some of those freezes onto electricity bills or subsidising charging?
The not about signage being better than a live phone link is, I think misplaced. Signage can't indicate whether chargers are available, occupied or even working at all, whereas posters here report the such info is readily accessible online.
Roadside signs could show prices and availability for relatively low cost, but even just a fixed sign saying how many bays and perhaps speed could help. I usually plan a public charge but if myself or another occupant said they needed the toilet or were hungry etc, I could see a sign for services with this additional info being useful.
Most people can or do use an app, or their car knows on the integrated navigation software.
My EV doesn't have navigation integrated (I use Android Auto) but my old car popped up with all nearby petrol stations and prices when the fuel light came on.
Agree it’s nuts and seems to fly in the face of their green policies. Why not a cut in train fares or an expansion of bus routes instead?
I’ve seen various things floating about on social media comparing oil and petrol prices for today and 2008. Petrol is 41% more expensive despite oil being 27% cheaper.
Less than 10% of cars on the road are plug-in. If you’re trying to alleviate cost of living, targeting a rich minority for subsidies isn’t really going to help.
johncrossley
Established Member
Inflation from 2008 to today is 56%, so petrol has gone down in real terms. By contrast, I suspect most bus season tickets for one day or longer and almost all train fares have gone up by more than inflation.
Shifting subsidies onto electricity bills would help everyone, and be kinder to the planet.
cactustwirly
Established Member
That's ignoring the high prices of fuel currently, reaching the 2022 Ukraine levels. The government will be taking more through the VAT on fuel.
Not cutting VED would be suicidal politically
Just read that the cost of this temporary cut would be 2bn. For a shade over 3bn according to the Campaign for Better Transport you could provide an hourly bus service from 6am to midnight to every town and village of more than 300 people for a year. I know which I’d choose…
What a load of gibberish. Every motorway service station has ultra/rapid charging on the UK (or at least England for sure but I strongly suspect UK wide now).
There's a lot of old hogwash surrounding EVs in the media. I'm still seeing the silly old range-anxiety tropes peddled everywhere. For example, Carwow recently did (yet another) multicar test of smaller EVs and ran them until the batteries depleted and had to be trailered away. I think you have to be some kind of moron to ask yourself the question, "What happens when my vehicle runs out of energy?" Well, the answer is it stops. Duh! I've never seen those kinds of tests for fossil fuel vehicles.
It's pointless really, everyone knows that official testing figures don't represent real life driving - that has always been true for petrol, diesel, and now EVs. Do we need to be told again and again you won't get 300 miles range?
We've had the massive super SUVs and some manufacturers are forcing technical advancements on newly developed EV vehicles, but efficiency should be the measure of interest - how far a vehicle goes on a unit of energy.
Last edited:
Harpers Tate
Established Member
- Joined
- 10 May 2013
- Messages
- 2,054
Agreed. For some reason "they" sold ICEs for years quoting MPG figures, yet along come EVs and MP(G) (i.e. /kWh) is hardly if ever mentioned. Range is always the headline.
Efficiency is a major factor in my choices. I was "spoiled" by my two Hyundai Ioniqs which were both (comparatively) amazingly efficent. The later car typically did well over 5 miles /kWh - a figure very hard to match today. My current car (Kia EV4) comes close, but doesn't quite get there. It's probably similarly aerodynamic, but the larger battery adds weight (as well as lots of range, of course) and the motor has much more BHP and torque. It also has "sporty" big wheels with thin tyres; these things all "cost" efficiency.
I've never owned an ICE car that got the mpg advertised (at least not long term) and for years everyone talked about how ridiculous the mpg figures were because they weren't based on real-world conditions.
But now we have to somehow believe that EVs never achieve their advertised range (mostly true but it seems some cars can match or even exceed on occasion) and compare to petrol and diesel cars that we must accept can do 50mpg or more.
But now we have to somehow believe that EVs never achieve their advertised range (mostly true but it seems some cars can match or even exceed on occasion) and compare to petrol and diesel cars that we must accept can do 50mpg or more.
That's because the £ is worth about 30% less than it was in 2008, relative to the $.
Indeed, which means the "freezes" on fuel duty have actually been real terms cuts to fuel duty.
Not forgetting the 5p "temporary" cut which no government has had the balls to rescind. Watch this lot back out of it again.
That doesn't really help if someone puts their foot down, which plenty do. If a vehicle is silent but able to move rapidly at any moment then it's hard to predict.
If you put your foot down hard, even an EV isn't going to be whisper quiet. The artificial sound goes off around 30mph, or perhaps a bit less, but by then the tyres are making enough noise for you to hear.
A very refined, large, petrol engine can be virtually silent at low speeds too.
Of course, any driver has a responsibility to be aware of their surroundings and in a town or anywhere near pedestrians, you should be driving safely and defensively - expecting the chance of someone stepping out and being capable of stopping quickly. Hence why 20mph zones in residential areas, town centres or schools can be a good idea.
Latest news from The Guardian today.
www.theguardian.com
I do feel for the small traders, his diesel looked relatively modern, so probably not financially viable for him to replace it yet.
By the way, The Electric Trucker is going around the world in a purpose built electric truck to prove the viability (or not) of electric haulage. Might be worth a watch if any of you are interested in EV haulage. The lead up to his adventure started around a month ago.
(Photo shows a Mercedes truck with an accommodation unit fixed to the chassis.)
‘Half my day’s pay goes to filling up my car now’: diesel crisis ripples across Britain
Small traders and drivers bear the brunt of a refining shortage taking UK diesel towards £2 a litre as wars wipe out about a fifth of global supplies
www.theguardian.com
I do feel for the small traders, his diesel looked relatively modern, so probably not financially viable for him to replace it yet.
By the way, The Electric Trucker is going around the world in a purpose built electric truck to prove the viability (or not) of electric haulage. Might be worth a watch if any of you are interested in EV haulage. The lead up to his adventure started around a month ago.
(Photo shows a Mercedes truck with an accommodation unit fixed to the chassis.)
They could add even more artificial noises if it were deemed necessary.
In reality there's two responsibilities in such situations - the driver to make all round observations, which they need to do regardless of fuel type; and the pedestrians to make all round observations, which they need to do to avoid colliding with cyclists or even other pedestrians anyway.
I'd be surprised if the lack of engine noise made a significant contribution to pedestrian KSIs.
The EV in question was stationary when my wife & son started to pass it. They were over halfway past when it started to move.
Given this was a supermarket car park, it is not uncommon for there to be somebody sat in a seat just waiting for another member of their party to arrive. I do believe that it is incumbent on the drivers to fully review their surroundings and to be aware that in a car park, that there might be people shorter than the height of their bonnet walking around.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
In the real world however it's also incumbent on pedestrians to assume any vehicle with someone in the driving seat may move at any time. No point being right but dead.
Engine noise or fake noise is needed for blind people, but everyone else needs to use their eyes rather than their mobile phone.
Agreed, but when you're over half way past a car, it is reasonable to expect that the muppet in the driving seat has working eyes.
I would also point out that my eyes were on the road and checking my family were heading in the right direction, whilst my wife's were making sure that our child wasn't going to run out in front of a moving car. In this instance, the person most likely to have been on their phone was the driver. My guess would be that she had got back to the car, was replying to a WhatsApp and then simply started to drive without looking.
It may surprise you to note that not all pedestrians are glued to their phones. It's quite tricky to use on when carrying a couple of shopping bags!
Harpers Tate
Established Member
- Joined
- 10 May 2013
- Messages
- 2,054
If I were the inattentive driver in the described situation, my car would start sounding alarms and probably vibrating the steering wheel if it detected (and it would) a nearby pedestrian. I'd expect such features to become the norm with new(er) designs.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Not if you wish to ensure your safety.
When using the road it is sensible to assume that everyone else is actively out to kill you.
We SHOULD be able to expect that but we cannot.
It is not useful to be right but dead.
OK.
I don't wish to be dead, so spotted the car in the next bay starting to pull out, so stopped in the walkway, but in front of the passenger side of a car in another space. Do I now need to make myself invisible to avoid being hit by the driver of the car i am standing in front of being blind?
As a pedestrian, there is only so much you can do, and it does rely on drivers being alert, which is something you seem to be missing.
The number of times I've been mid manoeuvre and had to stop because of blind drivers is amazing.
Drivers really need to take some form of responsibility and stop trying to blame pedestrians for their own incompetence.