UK switching to electric vehicles discussion

[Mawkie]

I don't think not having access to home charging is a huge problem tbh. The Tesla member rates are 30-40p/kWh which is fine

From personal experience, a lot of people who drive non-Tesla EVs are not aware they can use a lot of the Tesla network and get much cheaper rates than chargers from different charge point operators a few metres away. For those unaware, the map can be found here.


(Image showing Tesla Superchargers that "Other EVs" can use.)

As competition increases, we are seeing some signs of prices coming down but there's a way to go.

You can say that again! I'm now going to charge at 21p per kWh, and opposite me is an array of chargers at 89p!

I think the one thing which would help would be more consolidation in the rapid charging market so the subscriptions would be more "valuable", or ideally some sort of intra network subscription (eg pay an optional £10/month to octopus for electroverse and get a discount at all the stations in network).

IMHO, I would prefer a simple pricing structure. Gimics, rewards, member's clubs, subscriptions, etc only serve to obfuscate the true cost of charging, and consequently vehicle ownership.

Businesses should work out how much a thing costs, add in all their other costs such as equipment manufacturing, site costs, advertising, maintenance, staff, add in some profit and just sell it!

 

[AM9]

A New Energy Vehicle (NEV) is an official classification used in China for policy, subsidy, and vehicle, regulations. It describes battery electric vehicles (BEV) and plug in hybrids (PHEV) as well as fuel cell vehicles. It excludes traditional hybrids such as the Toyota Yaris.

For what it's worth, Wikipedia has a decent write up.

My comment really concerns your adding "so-called", which I read as dismissive.

 

[Mawkie]

My comment really concerns your adding "so-called", which I read as dismissive.

Oh sorry, I can be quite obtuse sometimes.

Not at all, I used the phrase "so-called" as New Energy Vehicle may not be a term that western readers (or those on the periphery of EV discussions) had heard before.

 

[Saad99]

Totally agree on the pricing transparency point. The number of different apps, subscriptions and membership tiers you need just to work out where's cheapest to charge is a bit of a mess. A simple pence per kWh displayed upfront like a petrol pump is all most people want. The fragmentation is probably putting off a lot of potential EV switchers who just find it all too confusing before they've even bought the car.

 

[SWT_USER]

From personal experience, a lot of people who drive non-Tesla EVs are not aware they can use a lot of the Tesla network and get much cheaper rates than chargers from different charge point operators a few metres away. For those unaware, the map can be found here.

View attachment 208243
(Image showing Tesla Superchargers that "Other EVs" can use.)

I am aware I can use Tesla chargers but have been put off by the ridiculously short cables on some of them. My charge port is on the other side to a Tesla so I'd have to block two bays to charge. I don't know if this has been resolved with later installations

 

[Snow1964]

Totally agree on the pricing transparency point. The number of different apps, subscriptions and membership tiers you need just to work out where's cheapest to charge is a bit of a mess. A simple pence per kWh displayed upfront like a petrol pump is all most people want. The fragmentation is probably putting off a lot of potential EV switchers who just find it all too confusing before they've even bought the car.

I suspect the apps problem is more for those who cannot charge at home. Most people will not really need a subscription for occasional charge when away from home. I think a zap-map survey put charging away from home at 16%

When we do long trips, we just tend to find a nearby charger that is reasonable and put enough in to get get back, or do intermediate charge (not usually worth going much above 82% charge on a rapid charger as the charge rate reduces and then paying rapid rates, for lower speed charge)

 

[AM9]

Totally agree on the pricing transparency point. The number of different apps, subscriptions and membership tiers you need just to work out where's cheapest to charge is a bit of a mess. A simple pence per kWh displayed upfront like a petrol pump is all most people want. The fragmentation is probably putting off a lot of potential EV switchers who just find it all too confusing before they've even bought the car.

I remember many years ago when the difference in fuel costs between roadside garages and motorway service areas was proportionally larger than it is today wnd many didn't realise until they pulled up at a pump with few miles left and saw the price. The government then forced the service areas to advertise their prices on signs at the approach to the exit from the motorway. (Un)surprisingly, the price differential then narrowed somewhat.

 

[jon0844]

Totally agree on the pricing transparency point. The number of different apps, subscriptions and membership tiers you need just to work out where's cheapest to charge is a bit of a mess. A simple pence per kWh displayed upfront like a petrol pump is all most people want. The fragmentation is probably putting off a lot of potential EV switchers who just find it all too confusing before they've even bought the car.

It's somewhat annoying to have to sign up to an app for a discount, or be asked to pay a regular subscription for a better rate, but obviously I can see why they do it.

I have no idea how many people just charge when they see a place to charge (and tie it in with a break, so quite possibly that means a service station location that's probably the most expensive) and how many plan ahead, perhaps using an app like A Better Route Planner, or Electroverse, Zapap etc. I know you can set favourites for charging, so some people can then plan routes via their preferred charging operator - such as Tesla.

Given most people are probably not doing long journeys that often, I assume a lot of people aren't planning ahead or comparing prices. They keep hearing people say it costs 90p, £1 or whatever to charge and perhaps they're not even looking to see what you can very easily pay a lot less without even needing a subscription. Some locations may not have as many facilities, which means being a bit more prepared, but it's not as if it's always easy to find cheap fuel on long trips in areas you don't know. I bet plenty of people end up paying BP a fortune on the motorway, but we don't hear about that - because every ICE owner compares the cheapest fuel with the most expensive EV charging rates!

When rates have to be advertised for electric charging, perhaps people will become smarter, but I am sure that anyone who does transition to an EV will eventually work it out.

 

[Mawkie]

I am aware I can use Tesla chargers but have been put off by the ridiculously short cables on some of them. My charge port is on the other side to a Tesla so I'd have to block two bays to charge. I don't know if this has been resolved with later installations

To a certain extent, it's been resolved on some sites - it depends on layout of course. Cable length has increased on the newest V4 Tesla cabinets, up to about 3m so should reach nearly any car's port now. The V4 cabinets are the ones without 'holes' through the middle of them, and are sometimes placed in the middle of the parking bay as seen below. (I've got to admit I avoid the "Other EV" sites as they are often full of taxis blocking the site, presumably waiting for a fare to appear on their app.)

 

[Sun Chariot]

Totally agree on the pricing transparency point. The number of different apps, subscriptions and membership tiers you need just to work out where's cheapest to charge is a bit of a mess. A simple pence per kWh displayed upfront like a petrol pump is all most people want. The fragmentation is probably putting off a lot of potential EV switchers who just find it all too confusing before they've even bought the car.

I'm in full agreement. Our current property means we have no home charging, come the point we will switch one or both of our ICE cars to EV.

 

[marshlinker]

I think that EV chargers should be obliged to display a large sign at the entrance with a price per kWh display like a price per litre at petrol stations.

 

[Mawkie]

I think that EV chargers should be obliged to display a large sign at the entrance with a price per kWh display like a price per litre at petrol stations.

To a certain extent I agree, but what happens at sites with multiple operators? I went to South Mimms this morning and there are 3 operators within 20m of each other charging from 21p to 92p.

Maybe others can confirm, but I think most electric cars have the ability to show prices on their in-car sat nav? Failing that, Zap Map can certainly limit chargers by price.

 

[jon0844]

Just watching a video that says Gridserve is now charging 92p at one location (possibly more?) which is contrary to the price cutting we've seen earlier in the year. Is it just a cash-grab for the summer holidays?

For as long as I can remember, Gridserve was 89p but less with the app (and less again with a sub). They even did cheaper rates during a half-term earlier in the year, but I guess they have decided that you don't go low, you go high!

 

[Snow1964]

Maybe others can confirm, but I think most electric cars have the ability to show prices on their in-car sat nav? Failing that, Zap Map can certainly limit chargers by price.

Most new ones can, but many are only live data for a year unless sign up to ongoing subscriptions.

However free apps like zap-map show prices, and live maps connected to a phone like Google or Waze routeplanner show chargers (both number available and number installed).

What none can really cope with, unless you stop and click on further info, (so not practical whilst driving) is where there is a mix of rapid and slower chargers with different prices, tend to show total number as one price

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Jul 2026 ==

Just watching a video that says Gridserve is now charging 92p at one location (possibly more?) which is contrary to the price cutting we've seen earlier in the year. Is it just a cash-grab for the summer holidays?

Some charge what market allows them to get away with, and there are areas with very little competition, so possibly trying to recover installation cost whilst they can, before another charger opens nearby.

There are still some big gaps, even on main trunk routes, usually in countryside and rural areas. Example Tesla has nothing from near Stonehenge to Exeter (about 92 miles) on main A303 to South West.

Continuing South West theme, lots of rapid chargers very close to each other (so loads of competition) on Barnstaple bypass, but very little competition elsewhere in north Devon. These geographic quirks affect competitive prices

 

[marshlinker]

To a certain extent I agree, but what happens at sites with multiple operators? I went to South Mimms this morning and there are 3 operators within 20m of each other charging from 21p to 92p.

I can't really see that should be a problem. Most fossil fuel stations display the price of multiple fuels. There's no reason why the EV stations shouldn't be displaying the prices of competing operators.

 

[GLC]

Just watching a video that says Gridserve is now charging 92p at one location (possibly more?) which is contrary to the price cutting we've seen earlier in the year. Is it just a cash-grab for the summer holidays?

For as long as I can remember, Gridserve was 89p but less with the app (and less again with a sub). They even did cheaper rates during a half-term earlier in the year, but I guess they have decided that you don't go low, you go high!

Yes. Took a trip down the M6 yesterday, and:
- Tebay Southbound services had a queue of 2-3 non Tesla's for the Westmorland rapid chargers, the (probably twice as many) Tesla chargers had a few spots free (but are not yet available to non Tesla)
- Killington Lake was down to 4 out of 6 functioning rapid chargers, which had a queue of 5 cars waiting (presumably everyone saw the situation at Tebay, and carried on one more stop)
- Lancaster was about 50% occupied, but was indeed charging 92p per kWh

No idea if this is a temporary bump for the increased traffic, but my EV is doing about 3.7 miles per kWh. So at 92p per kWh that's about 25 pence per mile. On petrol (I have a range extender i3), motorway service petrol at £1.70 a litres is about 21 pence per mile. I dread to think those with enormous EV SUVs doing 2 miles per kWh are forking out for long trips, if they can even find a charger...

 

[marshlinker]

Yes. Took a trip down the M6 yesterday, and:
- Tebay Southbound services had a queue of 2-3 non Tesla's for the Westmorland rapid chargers, the (probably twice as many) Tesla chargers had a few spots free (but are not yet available to non Tesla)
- Killington Lake was down to 4 out of 6 functioning rapid chargers, which had a queue of 5 cars waiting (presumably everyone saw the situation at Tebay, and carried on one more stop)
- Lancaster was about 50% occupied, but was indeed charging 92p per kWh

No idea if this is a temporary bump for the increased traffic, but my EV is doing about 3.7 miles per kWh. So at 92p per kWh that's about 25 pence per mile. On petrol (I have a range extender i3), motorway service petrol at £1.70 a litres is about 21 pence per mile. I dread to think those with enormous EV SUVs doing 2 miles per kWh are forking out for long trips, if they can even find a charger...

Does anybody (not on a fuel card) buy petrol at a motorway services? Even joining at the channel tunnel and heading for Scotland the motorways will run out before the little yellow light comes on in most cars.

 

[Peter Sarf]

From personal experience, a lot of people who drive non-Tesla EVs are not aware they can use a lot of the Tesla network and get much cheaper rates than chargers from different charge point operators a few metres away. For those unaware, the map can be found here.

View attachment 208243
(Image showing Tesla Superchargers that "Other EVs" can use.)


You can say that again! I'm now going to charge at 21p per kWh, and opposite me is an array of chargers at 89p!


IMHO, I would prefer a simple pricing structure. Gimics, rewards, member's clubs, subscriptions, etc only serve to obfuscate the true cost of charging, and consequently vehicle ownership.

Businesses should work out how much a thing costs, add in all their other costs such as equipment manufacturing, site costs, advertising, maintenance, staff, add in some profit and just sell it!

+

Totally agree on the pricing transparency point. The number of different apps, subscriptions and membership tiers you need just to work out where's cheapest to charge is a bit of a mess. A simple pence per kWh displayed upfront like a petrol pump is all most people want. The fragmentation is probably putting off a lot of potential EV switchers who just find it all too confusing before they've even bought the car.

I agree the gimmicks are all just there so make prices/products SEEM more attractive. Unfortunately many people just do not question it (its is not that they are stupid more that they are easily distracted). I always go by the actual price of something NOT how much it has been reduced by.

These gimmicks just make it harder for me to figure out the actual price and my missus always complains when I start digging. She actually criticises my approach of looking at the price per kilogramme or price per litre in the supermarket !.

 

[Noddy]

Yes. Took a trip down the M6 yesterday, and:
- Tebay Southbound services had a queue of 2-3 non Tesla's for the Westmorland rapid chargers, the (probably twice as many) Tesla chargers had a few spots free (but are not yet available to non Tesla)
- Killington Lake was down to 4 out of 6 functioning rapid chargers, which had a queue of 5 cars waiting (presumably everyone saw the situation at Tebay, and carried on one more stop)
- Lancaster was about 50% occupied, but was indeed charging 92p per kWh

No idea if this is a temporary bump for the increased traffic, but my EV is doing about 3.7 miles per kWh. So at 92p per kWh that's about 25 pence per mile. On petrol (I have a range extender i3), motorway service petrol at £1.70 a litres is about 21 pence per mile. I dread to think those with enormous EV SUVs doing 2 miles per kWh are forking out for long trips, if they can even find a charger...

With regards to Tebay southbound not sure how many folk realise but you can drive over to the northbound side and use those (I’ve done this myself). In terms of price there isn’t that much difference between Tesla and Westmorland. At Tebay Tesla is 47p off peak/60p peak for the Tesla price (at Gloucester Services the Tesla open to all non-member price is 73p 8am-8pm) but Westmorland is 63p with Electroverse/Intelligent Go, 69p PAYG.

 

[HSTEd]

Ideally chargers wouldn't have apps, the charging station would use the data pins on the charging cable to communicate with the vehicle and levy the bill on an account attached to the car.

It should be well within our technical capability, although the shear number of transactions would probably make visa/mastercard a lot of money unless a different payment processor was used.

Of course, to connect with the road charging discussion in another thread, you could add public charger payment to the levied mileage tax bill.

 

[Noddy]

Ideally chargers wouldn't have apps, the charging station would use the data pins on the charging cable to communicate with the vehicle and levy the bill on an account attached to the car.

It should be well within our technical capability, although the shear number of transactions would probably make visa/mastercard a lot of money unless a different payment processor was used.

Of course, to connect with the road charging discussion in another thread, you could add public charger payment to the levied mileage tax bill.

This is already a reality-it’s an international standard (published as ISO 15118) and two charging networks in the UK have implemented it (Ionity and MFG), I’ve used it loads and it works great. The problem is a lot of car makers haven’t included it in their car and the majority of charge point operators haven’t implemented it on their chargers. Adoption in cars is definitely rising but the CPOs seem pretty slow mainly, I think, because a lot of older kit simply won’t run it (doesn’t meet the security requirements) and would require replacing. Some car makers are also being naughty by only allowing you to install it on their cars via their own payment subscriptions and not third party vendors.

 

[Mawkie]

Ideally chargers wouldn't have apps, the charging station would use the data pins on the charging cable to communicate with the vehicle and levy the bill on an account attached to the car.

You're describing the way Tesla have done it from day one - plug in and walk away. Billing is done automatically through the car/app (you only need to use the app once to enter the card details).

As you probably know already, all public fast chargers are required by law to be able to pay by card on-site, so no apps are actually necessary. CPOs like apps as it allows them to capture personal data and build a profile. The pay off is often 5p or 10p off. I would say Electroverse card would serve the needs of 99% of drivers on a road trip, which you can also use as a payment card on most chargers as you would any normal contactless card.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Ideally chargers wouldn't have apps, the charging station would use the data pins on the charging cable to communicate with the vehicle and levy the bill on an account attached to the car.

It should be well within our technical capability, although the shear number of transactions would probably make visa/mastercard a lot of money unless a different payment processor was used.

Of course, to connect with the road charging discussion in another thread, you could add public charger payment to the levied mileage tax bill.

Potential snag is if that means the owner of the car is paying for the charge rather than the person driving (borrowing) the car.

 

[marshlinker]

Interesting figure on one of the EVangelist you Tube Channels over 80% of EV Purchases are company cars including salary sacrifice schemes.
he concluded that the reason Gridserve can get away with charging 92p/Kwh on the M6 is that nearly all users are using company charge cards and accordingly dont care about the price.

 

[Sun Chariot]

Potential snag is if that means the owner of the car is paying for the charge rather than the person driving (borrowing) the car.

Good point and key to the EV vehicle-rental sector.
(Although rental-cost could, in principle, be "flexed" to reflect cost of "rental-period's miles driven" - to absorb the charging cost relevant to the distance driven during that rental period).

 

[Mawkie]

Interesting figure on one of the EVangelist you Tube Channels over 80% of EV Purchases are company cars including salary sacrifice schemes.
he concluded that the reason Gridserve can get away with charging 92p/Kwh on the M6 is that nearly all users are using company charge cards and accordingly dont care about the price.

Hasn't this always been the case? Historically most of new car sales were to fleet, hire car, or other company cars, and were heavily subsidised. Likewise, I doubt the fossil fuel cars were paying the headline price with a fuel card at a motorway service station.

Good point and key to the EV vehicle-rental sector.
(Although rental-cost could, in principle, be "flexed" to reflect cost of "rental-period's miles driven" - to absorb the charging cost relevant to the distance driven during that rental period).

The up side to hiring an electric car is the old, "Bring it back with the same level of fuel in the tank" and then getting charged for non-existent replacement fuel. In an EV, start with 54%, arrive back with 54%

 

[Sun Chariot]

The up side to hiring an electric car is the old, "Bring it back with the same level of fuel in the tank" and then getting charged for non-existent replacement fuel. In an EV, start with 54%, arrive back with 54%

Not wishing to go down a topic-rabbithole; I had a thought:

Assumption 1: a renter of an EV car / van* / motorhome* does not own an existing EV.
Assumption 2: the renter does not have EV home-charge equipment / infrastructure.

Do EV rental companies already include a domestic charging cable, with their rental vehicle? If not, then the rental of an EV will necessitate renter's use of public charger*.

Assumption 3: renter has no charging app (as they don't own an EV*), so their charge [to full, or pre-agreed %] is at the full "drive up" charging cost

Whereas a ICE vehicle renter can and will, in many cases, find a cheaper fuelling station, than ICE renter's "fuel refill rate", that choice is not avaiable to the EV renter.

* although a van or motorhome might well be rented by an EV car-owner; as the van / motorhome rental might be solely to fulfill specific tenporary requirements.

 

[Mawkie]

Not wishing to go down a topic-rabbithole; I had a thought:

Assumption 1: a renter of an EV car / van* / motorhome* does not own an existing EV.
Assumption 2: the renter does not have EV home-charge equipment / infrastructure.

Do EV rental companies already include a domestic charging cable, with their rental vehicle? If not, then the rental of an EV will necessitate renter's use of public charger*.

Assumption 3: renter has no charging app (as they don't own an EV*), so their charge [to full, or pre-agreed %] is at the full "drive up" charging cost

Whereas a ICE vehicle renter can and will, in many cases, find a cheaper fuelling station, than ICE renter's "fuel refill rate", that choice is not avaiable to the EV renter.

* although a van or motorhome might well be rented by an EV car-owner; as the van / motorhome rental might be solely to fulfill specific tenporary requirements.

I'm not sure I understand your points.

Would anyone really, really, rent an EV without giving the slightest thought as to how they might refuel it? Not even the simplest YouTube video, or a conversation with the rental company at the time of exchange? I've never rented an EV, but I'm sure "charging cable" would be on the checklist of things the renter signs.

If the renter of an ICE vehicle is able to identify petrol stations that have cheaper fuel, how are they not able to do the same for electric charge points? Given the car does it all for them, this seems implausible. The rental company may even have a preferential rate with particular companies. Not everyone is particularly bothered about paying more for fast charging on a few days away and just add it to the costs of rental, much like extra insurance, or eating in motorway services.

I charged yesterday at a 250 kW charger at 21p. My home rate is 27p. If I can find cheaper rates, anyone can.

 

[Sun Chariot]

In response @Mawkie -

Would anyone really, really, rent an EV without giving the slightest thought as to how they might refuel it?

- Yes, I believe a subset of EV renters falls into that category (whether through fear of learning "different tech" or through lack of forethought).


I've never rented an EV, but I'm sure "charging cable" would be on the checklist of things the renter signs.

- That is my assumpton too, hence I asked this readership if any can confirm.


If the renter of an ICE vehicle is able to identify petrol stations that have cheaper fuel, how are they not able to do the same for electric charge points?

- My 38 years of identifying fuel stations? Merely by knowing supermarkets priced - typically - cheapest, then it's the major brands "in-town", then, regardless of brand, it's the rural fuel stations and, most expensive, those on M-ways and A dual-carriageways. No apps.
So, people in my scenario need to learn and use a different approach - no longer simply "look through windscreen" for the price.
My late father's fear of technology, resulted in him not looking at his final car's satnav or multimedia, in the 10 years he owned it. So, any in-car info for charging locations would have meant absolutely nothing to him. But, of course, a "digitally-fearful" demographic is ever-lessening.

 

[Mawkie]

Everything about electric car charging at SIXT rental cars

To ensure you’re fully equipped for your EV rental, each vehicle comes with a Type 2 charging cable.

Type 2 – To ensure you’re fully equipped for your EV rental, each vehicle comes with a Type 2 charging cable. This is suitable for us at all public charging stations often found in parking garages, at motorway service stations, on the street and in shopping centres and retail locations. The Type 2 charger provides a convenient way to charge your car during breaks on your trip or overnight.

I'm sure it's possible to walk into an office and rent a car, but I would suggest 99.999% of rentals are pre-planned and completed over the internet. Given that most people renting a car would, at least for an initial enquiry, use the internet, the SIXT website has all the info a new renter might need. There's a FAQ at the bottom for those interested:

- Do I need to return the vehicle fully charged?
- Who do I contact if I need support at the charging station?
- How much does it cost to charge an Electric Vehicle?
- How do I charge a non-Tesla electric vehicle at a Tesla Supercharger?
- How do I charge my EV?
- How long does it take to charge an Electric Vehicle?

Seems to cover most things for all but the rarest of cases.

Of course, we can't ever really account for the poor soul racing to get to his dying aunts last hours on earth who lives 500 miles away, but there we go...