UK switching to electric vehicles discussion

[E27007]

Probably not, as it's largely about the pistons and bores which they don't have.



Yes, I'm pretty sure ICE car manuals still suggest driving with a light right foot for the first couple of thousand miles.

I doubt if it will be two thousand miles , a lot less, the brakes need to bed in, the tyres need to bed in too, initially the tyre rubber is stiff (the tyres run hotter than usual) and become supple after bedding in, pistons bed-in by heat-cycling, expansion and contraction by heating and cooling until they stabilise.
A ZEV has tyres and friction brakes in common with ICE ,but not pistons, so what is the advice in the owners handbook for a ZEV?

 

[Noddy]

The presenter is an experienced battle-hardened car salesman / sales manager, what reason is there to cast doubt upon his opinions?

Because creating anti EV content (or anything controversial or political) drives engagement. You only need to look at the comments for the types of users he is attracting to his channel and what they’re talking about:




(Sorry mods but there doesn’t seem to be a way to copy comments from the YouTube app)


It quickly escalates from (ridiculous) comments on how dealers and manufacturers will face extinction in 2030 to (even more ridiculous) comments on government conspiracy and communism. The guy has simply found a niche to play the YouTube algorithm game-that’s what he’s interested in and is clearly doing to raise the profile of his channel. He’s not presenting boring facts or reality because no one would watch. Ignore him.

 

[Mawkie]

The presenter is an experienced battle-hardened car salesman / sales manager, what reason is there to cast doubt upon his opinions? Especially when the evidence of the state of the market for ZEVs is shown by his incisive analysis of the "fire sale" of ZEV vehicles on the car market website Autotrader?

For a start he doesn't offer comparisons with petrol or diesel sales - just drones on about EVs. So, I had a very cursory look at Autotrader and found...

A £20k petrol Corsa with £5.2k off.


And a £35k BMW with £5k knocked off.

So discounting new cars is nothing to do with the drive train and is actually just a feature of the car trade and has been for as long as I remember.

 

[JamesT]

For a start he doesn't offer comparisons with petrol or diesel sales - just drones on about EVs. So, I had a very cursory look at Autotrader and found...

So discounting new cars is nothing to do with the drive train and is actually just a feature of the car trade and has been for as long as I remember.

Yes, traders have done sales promotions with discounts on new cars forever. The difference with EVs is the systemic price cutting to try and meet the government targets. There have been various stories in reputable news publications such as https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/...ate-fines-despite-spending-ps4bn-ev-discounts

According to new analysis from the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders (SMMT), the ZEV Mandate targets that are currently in place will cost car makers a whopping £6 billion in 2024 alone. That figure includes £4 billion earmarked for discounting showroom prices in a seemingly ill-fated attempt to boost demand for electric cars and thus reach the 22 per cent threshold of total sales demanded by the ZEV Mandate this year.

(Yes, this article is from 2024, but I don't believe anything has intrinsically changed since).

 

[Noddy]

Yes, traders have done sales promotions with discounts on new cars forever. The difference with EVs is the systemic price cutting to try and meet the government targets. There have been various stories in reputable news publications such as https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/...ate-fines-despite-spending-ps4bn-ev-discounts

(Yes, this article is from 2024, but I don't believe anything has intrinsically changed since).

The problem is that parts of the industry are artificially inflating prices RRP eg Vauxhall Astra EV which is 40k in top spec (with a relatively modest sized battery). But then it is discounted by 10-20%. The purchaser thinks they’ve got a good deal and the manufacturer can go to the goverment(s) and claim it’s costing them Y and they need X cash to help them transition. It appears to cost a lot of money on paper but in reality it has cost nothing because the RRP was never a true reflection of the price.

 

[The Ham]

The problem is that parts of the industry are artificially inflating prices RRP eg Vauxhall Astra EV which is 40k in top spec (with a relatively modest sized battery). But then it is discounted by 10-20%. The purchaser thinks they’ve got a good deal and the manufacturer can go to the goverment(s) and claim it’s costing them Y and they need X cash to help them transition. It appears to cost a lot of money on paper but in reality it has cost nothing because the RRP was never a true reflection of the price.

Indeed, I can claim hardship that my product has to be discounted from 150 to 125 to actual sell any, however 5 years ago I was selling them for 100.

I've therefore made a "loss" of 25 on paper and therefore please Government give me some tax break or something else, yet my actual profits are higher than they were previously.

Car prices did go up quite a bit around the time of COVID, and whilst EV's do have a lot of R&D costs, the costs of their drivetrains (assuming you should include the price of the battery) have been falling.

(OK over simplification, however it illustrates what could happen)

 

[E27007]

If Fogstar can sell a home battery with 64kWh for around £5000, I can only assume a car maker is now getting them for a pretty good price - and many cars have smaller batteries than that.

They're only going to get cheaper as time goes on.

I accept your point of batteries price reduction as manufacturing expands, the Fogstar 64kWh home battery, will it cope with fast-discharge 80% to 30% of capacity in two to three hours, and rapid recharge 30 to 80% of capacity in 30 minutes? Will the battery cope with high load demands such as full throttle acceleration? All found in the usage pattern of a ZEV. Those operational requirements found in ZEVs and hybrid batteries raise teh costs of the traction batteries.

 

[martin butler]

The overriding problem though still remains, and that's roadside charging, at some point you are going to need to plug your EV in.

Take where I live, it's a street of old Victorian houses, most converted into flats, with no allocated parking, Already it's a hard job to find a parking spot, then add other people who use side streets as free parking, they park up, then go off to the station, or to Hastings, because we don't have residents parking on our street,

So, imagine, if you had an EV and it needed to be charged, and there was already another car, parked outside your door, where do you charge?
An EV with a dead battery is just so much dead metal, then it's a tow job to the garage to be charged,

Even if your local supermarket has charging stations, what's the chance they will all be in use? as EV use becomes greater so the does the need to enlarge the provision of charging stations, then there's the actual charging time, how many drivers can actually take an hour out of their day to sit whilst their car battery charges up?

 

[Bletchleyite]

So, imagine, if you had an EV and it needed to be charged, and there was already another car, parked outside your door, where do you charge?

This is why lamp post charging is better than cable gullies.

An EV with a dead battery is just so much dead metal, then it's a tow job to the garage to be charged,

Even if your local supermarket has charging stations, what's the chance they will all be in use? as EV use becomes greater so the does the need to enlarge the provision of charging stations, then there's the actual charging time, how many drivers can actually take an hour out of their day to sit whilst their car battery charges up?

You don't. You leave it to charge while doing other things e.g. your supermarket shop.

 

[jon0844]

The overriding problem though still remains, and that's roadside charging, at some point you are going to need to plug your EV in.

Take where I live, it's a street of old Victorian houses, most converted into flats, with no allocated parking, Already it's a hard job to find a parking spot, then add other people who use side streets as free parking, they park up, then go off to the station, or to Hastings, because we don't have residents parking on our street,

So, imagine, if you had an EV and it needed to be charged, and there was already another car, parked outside your door, where do you charge?
An EV with a dead battery is just so much dead metal, then it's a tow job to the garage to be charged,

Even if your local supermarket has charging stations, what's the chance they will all be in use? as EV use becomes greater so the does the need to enlarge the provision of charging stations, then there's the actual charging time, how many drivers can actually take an hour out of their day to sit whilst their car battery charges up?

There are apps to show where chargers are and if they're in use.

Plus who would return home with near 0% if they don't have their own means of charging?

Do people let their fuel tank get so empty that the miles remaining info disappears and decide to go home without filling up?

 

[AM9]

The overriding problem though still remains, and that's roadside charging, at some point you are going to need to plug your EV in.

Take where I live, it's a street of old Victorian houses, most converted into flats, with no allocated parking, Already it's a hard job to find a parking spot, then add other people who use side streets as free parking, they park up, then go off to the station, or to Hastings, because we don't have residents parking on our street,

So, imagine, if you had an EV and it needed to be charged, and there was already another car, parked outside your door, where do you charge?
An EV with a dead battery is just so much dead metal, then it's a tow job to the garage to be charged,

Even if your local supermarket has charging stations, what's the chance they will all be in use? as EV use becomes greater so the does the need to enlarge the provision of charging stations, then there's the actual charging time, how many drivers can actually take an hour out of their day to sit whilst their car battery charges up?

If car parking is so problematic where you live, doesn't that tell you something about your chosen lifestyle and transport options? Owning a car is not compatible with every house, and just because every person has a right to own a car, there's no guarantee that you local environment will accommodate it forever, - ICE or EV.

 

[The Ham]

The overriding problem though still remains, and that's roadside charging, at some point you are going to need to plug your EV in.

Take where I live, it's a street of old Victorian houses, most converted into flats, with no allocated parking, Already it's a hard job to find a parking spot, then add other people who use side streets as free parking, they park up, then go off to the station, or to Hastings, because we don't have residents parking on our street,

So, imagine, if you had an EV and it needed to be charged, and there was already another car, parked outside your door, where do you charge?
An EV with a dead battery is just so much dead metal, then it's a tow job to the garage to be charged,

Even if your local supermarket has charging stations, what's the chance they will all be in use? as EV use becomes greater so the does the need to enlarge the provision of charging stations, then there's the actual charging time, how many drivers can actually take an hour out of their day to sit whilst their car battery charges up?

The above does highlight some things which are problems with EV's, however the main concern (lack of parking) is something which is an issue with there being an over reliance on the private motor car.

As a country (although far less than some) we waste a lot of land space facilitating the use of cars.

The design hierarchy should be (she is starting age, some parents may adjust for their individual child):

Streets for 6 year olds - basically where people live the roads should be quiet enough that a child can just wait until there's no cars moving and cross

Neighbourhoods for 9 year olds - basically a child in year 5 or 6 (upper juniors) should be able to pop to a local shop or get to and from school or some other travel without having to be taken

Towns for 12 year olds - basically from the start of secondary school a child should be able travel to most of what they want to do without needing to be driven.

Guess what, by reducing (please note I'm not saying erudite, far from it) car use everyone benefits.

I've said it before, and I'm sure I'll say it again, but even small changes in traffic volumes make a big difference in journey times.

Daily variation is around 2%, so those days which take longer than normal for no reason vs those days which you get there faster for no reason is that level of difference. As such, if car use could be reduced by 2% most days should be like those good days.

Likewise, school traffic accounts for about 10% of traffic during term time, yet during the school holidays journey times are significantly better. As such, a reduction of 10% would make traveling much less congested.

For most people not using a car at all is impractical, however using their cars a little less can make a big difference.

If I was to ask if anyone could cut out their car use from 100 households, almost none of them could, probably even those where they have a car which does 5,000 miles a year.

However, quite a few could probably reduce it a bit. If those 100 households could (as an average) reduced their car use by 2 miles a week, that would reduce risk miles travelled by over 10,000 miles for the year.

Ah average of 2 miles a week isn't a lot, that's maybe an at home parent (be that WFH, or not in paid employment, or works in the evening, or wherever their at home during the day) walking their kids to school between Easter and October 2 days a week and driving the rest of the time rather than always driving.

For others it might be doing one or two long journeys a year by public transport, for others it might be WFH one day every 1 to 3 months, for some it could be waking their kids to a club/lesson (swimming, gymnastics, rugby, football, etc.), for others it'll be something else.

For some they may manage more than an average of 2 miles a week, for others they won't be able to manage anything more than maybe 2 miles a year, however with a large enough group it becomes possible for the to be enough of a change.

For some, having made some reductions they could realise that they don't actually need a second car, especially if they could have access to a car club vehicle for the few times they did need it. Car club vehicles can fairly easily be EV's, as if they are being used so much that they have problems being kept charged by anything other than a 13amp plug then there's probably enough demand for another vehicle.

 

[Mawkie]

The overriding problem though still remains, and that's roadside charging, at some point you are going to need to plug your EV in.

Take where I live, it's a street of old Victorian houses, most converted into flats, with no allocated parking, Already it's a hard job to find a parking spot, then add other people who use side streets as free parking, they park up, then go off to the station, or to Hastings, because we don't have residents parking on our street,

So, imagine, if you had an EV and it needed to be charged, and there was already another car, parked outside your door, where do you charge?
An EV with a dead battery is just so much dead metal, then it's a tow job to the garage to be charged,

Even if your local supermarket has charging stations, what's the chance they will all be in use? as EV use becomes greater so the does the need to enlarge the provision of charging stations, then there's the actual charging time, how many drivers can actually take an hour out of their day to sit whilst their car battery charges up?

Nearly 6500 comments into this thread and this is what we're still dealing with? It feels like we're going around in circles.

So, imagine, if you had an EV and it needed to be charged, and there was already another car, parked outside your door, where do you charge?

In one of the 120,000 charging points in the UK? I think the issue must be that people who don't own an EV simply don't notice the amount of charging points around.

An EV with a dead battery is just so much dead metal, then it's a tow job to the garage to be charged,

An ICE car that's run out of fuel is just so much dead metal...

Even if your local supermarket has charging stations, what's the chance they will all be in use?

There is little to no chance of that being the case. ZapMap tells you, my car screen tells me, my eyes tells me. I have never charged at home and have never queued for a charger - my car did advise me once there'd be a 5 minute wait for a charger at Luton and I opted to re-route to Harlington and had a mooch around the lovely garden centre there.

how many drivers can actually take an hour out of their day to sit whilst their car battery charges up?

How many are daft enough to do it? You do realise the average driver isn't plugging in every day? I commute to work 5 days a week and plug in once every 2/3 weeks. Drive somewhere, plug in, do your shopping, visit your friends, go for your walk, see the sights, whatever. Sometimes I drive and the other half wants to do stuff in town and I stay in the car. That's fine because I have YouTube, Netflix, or iPlayer to keep me entertained on the massive screen. Failing that, I can play Chess or Mahjong on the same screen.


This charging availability map demonstrates that the area around Hastings is hardly a dead zone.

 

[Snow1964]

Take where I live, it's a street of old Victorian houses, most converted into flats, with no allocated parking, Already it's a hard job to find a parking spot, then add other people who use side streets as free parking, they park up, then go off to the station, or to Hastings, because we don't have residents parking on our street,

Thats a different debate, people buy houses without driveways and find it's not easy to park, that's not EV specific

So, imagine, if you had an EV and it needed to be charged, and there was already another car, parked outside your door, where do you charge?
An EV with a dead battery is just so much dead metal, then it's a tow job to the garage to be charged,

Unless your local Borough introduces kerbside chargers, as not supposed to have cables trailing across footpath, being near your front door makes no difference, no one has exclusive ability to park on road outside their home (unless you have specific numbered marked bay for disabled etc)

Even if your local supermarket has charging stations, what's the chance they will all be in use? as EV use becomes greater so the does the need to enlarge the provision of charging stations,

Quite rare now at supermarkets with chargers (unless your local supermarket is one of the diminishing number with just couple of slowish chargers)

then there's the actual charging time, how many drivers can actually take an hour out of their day to sit whilst their car battery charges up?

There are so many destination chargers nowadays, don't normally need to make a special trip and sit around. Many newer rapid chargers give extra 60-80 miles in 10-15 minutes. On the other hand it's not hard to find drivers that deviate and spend their time going to a cheaper petrol station that isn't on their normal route either.

There are now about 120,000 public EV charging points in UK (it goes up about 400 every week), for comparison there are about 8400 petrol stations. Due to closure of petrol stations parts of England are over 10 miles from nearest petrol stations.

The number of public chargers is now more than pumps, it is only those trying to make a living with sensational stories that continue to pump (pun intended) drivel about not being able to charge EVs easily, whilst forgetting to say now only have seventh of number of petrol stations that existed 70 years ago.

 

[johncrossley]

Is there anyone here who has an EV but doesn't charge at either home or work?

 

[martin butler]

I can only judge by what I see in my own area, and I don't see that many public charging points,

there's a service station down by Glyn Gap, with a bank of chargers, but I'm not sure if my local Asda has chargers, it has a small pump station, my local Lidl does not have chargers, nor the BP station next to it, so whilst on paper it looks like there's plenty of provision, its clearly only in some areas,

I would guess this is the same nationwide but will get better as more charging stations open, my argument is that the superstructure to support widespread EV use is still not at the point were going electric is a viable option for some people.

Remark was made about using the car less, Well I shop at Lidl, normally, and normally if i drive its 5 mins to drive, and I can do my shop, get home and all told it takes about 30 mins, there is no direct bus route, so if i go by bus, its two busses, and last time I did that, it took nearly 2 hours, from my door , to getting back home, So, not exactly viable, I could get a taxi, yes, and its about £8 each way,

 

[johncrossley]

Remark was made about using the car less, Well I shop at Lidl, normally, and normally if i drive its 5 mins to drive, and I can do my shop, get home and all told it takes about 30 mins, there is no direct bus route, so if i go by bus, its two busses, and last time I did that, it took nearly 2 hours, from my door , to getting back home, So, not exactly viable, I could get a taxi, yes, and its about £8 each way,

Did you deliberately choose to live somewhere where access to shops etc. is difficult without a car? There are plenty of people in the UK who don't have a car at all yet manage to go everywhere they want to. Not all of them live in big cities.

 

[Mawkie]

Is there anyone here who has an EV but doesn't charge at either home or work?

Me, I pay 21p at my local Supercharger, or if I'm feeling rich, 39p at my local Eon (both of which are still cheaper than petrol). Obviously, not as cheap as 3.5p overnight at home, but cost is not the only factor in driving an electric car.

 

[martin butler]

Did you deliberately choose to live somewhere where access to shops etc. is difficult without a car? There are plenty of people in the UK who don't have a car at all yet manage to go everywhere they want to. Not all of them live in big cities.

No, not at all, we have very good provision of local busses we do have local shops, but what they stock is limited, and at premium prices, and then as in all coastal towns, there's hills involved and the busses only take you so far, it's still a good 10 minute walk, up a steep hill carrying heavy bags of shopping,

No, I did not deliberately choose to live in St Leonards, that was down to circumstances I had no control over, affordability, etc,

 

[SargeNpton]

This is why lamp post charging is better than cable gullies.



You don't. You leave it to charge while doing other things e.g. your supermarket shop.

In my street of Victorian terrace houses there are five lampposts - three of which are adjacent to double yellow lines.

 

[Snow1964]

Is there anyone here who has an EV but doesn't charge at either home or work?

Have an EV, early retired so no work charger.

Normally charge overnight at home every few days, but when we do trips have to charge elsewhere. Never been a problem (did have to wait few minutes once). Even been somewhere fairly remote (Isle of Wight) and the car park in Ventnor had chargers so charged whilst having evening meal in local restaurant.

 

[Bletchleyite]

In my street of Victorian terrace houses there are five lampposts - three of which are adjacent to double yellow lines.

It is possible to relocate lamp posts or provide dedicated charging pillars, and each post can host more than one (slow) charger. This really is an odd objection.

 

[martin butler]

It is possible to relocate lamp posts or provide dedicated charging pillars, and each post can host more than one (slow) charger. This really is an odd objection.

The problem, isn't so much the idea, it's the installation, and the time it would take to implement,
The cost would probably make it uneconomic to do, the only way Batteries can compete, Is I would say, when the charging technology can recharge a battery in under 5 mins,

 

[cactustwirly]

The overriding problem though still remains, and that's roadside charging, at some point you are going to need to plug your EV in.

Take where I live, it's a street of old Victorian houses, most converted into flats, with no allocated parking, Already it's a hard job to find a parking spot, then add other people who use side streets as free parking, they park up, then go off to the station, or to Hastings, because we don't have residents parking on our street,

So, imagine, if you had an EV and it needed to be charged, and there was already another car, parked outside your door, where do you charge?
An EV with a dead battery is just so much dead metal, then it's a tow job to the garage to be charged,

Even if your local supermarket has charging stations, what's the chance they will all be in use? as EV use becomes greater so the does the need to enlarge the provision of charging stations, then there's the actual charging time, how many drivers can actually take an hour out of their day to sit whilst their car battery charges up?

If it's anything like my local Sainsbury's, which is probably one of the bigger stores. Hundreds of parking spaces. 10 EV chargers
I have never seen them at all full. The other day I only saw 2 Openreach vans being charged and 100+ ICE cars.

Seems to me EV adoption has a long way to go for most of the normal population.

 

[Mawkie]

If it's anything like my local Sainsbury's, which is probably one of the bigger stores. Hundreds of parking spaces. 10 EV chargers
I have never seen them at all full. The other day I only saw 2 Openreach vans being charged and 100+ ICE cars.

Seems to me EV adoption has a long way to go for most of the normal population.

So your argument is there is plenty of charging capacity? I'm glad we've finally myth-busted that old chestnut.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The problem, isn't so much the idea, it's the installation, and the time it would take to implement,
The cost would probably make it uneconomic to do, the only way Batteries can compete, Is I would say, when the charging technology can recharge a battery in under 5 mins,

Simply false. It is already competing well.

Why do people who don't want an EV try to put the idea down for everyone rather than just saying they don't want an EV? Lots of people do. My next car will definitely be one.

 

[Mawkie]

Why do people who don't want an EV try to put the idea down for everyone rather than just saying they don't want an EV?

It's important to have robust debates in life, and everyone is welcome to their own opinion, but it's also important to challenge the outright untruths being put forward in some places, be that here, at work, or down the pub.

It is curious the lengths some folk will go to instead of just saying "I don't want one" though.

 

[Bald Rick]

Seems to me EV adoption has a long way to go for most of the normal population.

Depend what you mean.

A quarter of all new cars registered are now EVs (the numbers for March come out next week). About 5% of all cars are now EVs.

In some parts of the country uptake is higher than in others. Here in St Albans I estimate that 10% of the cars on the road are EVs.

So, yes, a long way to go, but it’s is happening visibly now.

One more thing, I know there are some journos out thee who will say otherwise, but of the dozens of people I know with EVs, not one of them has gone back to ICE. Some of them are on their 3rd or 4th Ev now.

 

[Peter Sarf]

If car parking is so problematic where you live, doesn't that tell you something about your chosen lifestyle and transport options? Owning a car is not compatible with every house, and just because every person has a right to own a car, there's no guarantee that you local environment will accommodate it forever, - ICE or EV.

Basically I think people like me who have a terraced house with no drive probably could not afford a house with a drive. We could argue that those sort of people cannot easily afford a car. I buy quite old cars (10 years old). So I am not yet in the market for an EV as they are too new.

Also I choose to drive as little as possible. It is at an arguably unhealthily low level of use for my car. Living in London public transport is everywhere and since I am over 60 I get free off peak travel. Before I got free travel I would walk, now I have a free bus pass I realise how unreliable the bus service is !. I have a car because it is a nice to have. Essential for my annual camping trip (a van hire would make sense) but useful for diy and other out of town trips (though I go to Cardiff from Croydon by coach from Vistoria).

Having a car has got more necessary for me as the town centre has declined with out of town shops being built. I really think we need to face up to the effects of car culture. To me that is a more urgent issue than the need to switch to EVs.

The effects vary from person to person. Yesterday I went out of town shopping with my stepson and we needed to move from one shop to another. He wanted to drive his car from one car park to the adjacent car park rather than walk. I succeeded in persuading him to walk. The two shops were so close that I actually wonder if the walk in one car park to the car and the walk in the second car park from car to the second shop would have been longer !.

The point is that car culture has lead to my 41 year old step son defaulting to driving such incredibly short distances.

So I would say that the disadvantage of EVs is that it does not reduce car culture. EVs will be a problem for the poorer and less mobile as they are less likely to afford one.

The above does highlight some things which are problems with EV's, however the main concern (lack of parking) is something which is an issue with there being an over reliance on the private motor car.

As a country (although far less than some) we waste a lot of land space facilitating the use of cars.

The design hierarchy should be (she is starting age, some parents may adjust for their individual child):

Streets for 6 year olds - basically where people live the roads should be quiet enough that a child can just wait until there's no cars moving and cross

Neighbourhoods for 9 year olds - basically a child in year 5 or 6 (upper juniors) should be able to pop to a local shop or get to and from school or some other travel without having to be taken

Towns for 12 year olds - basically from the start of secondary school a child should be able travel to most of what they want to do without needing to be driven.

Guess what, by reducing (please note I'm not saying erudite, far from it) car use everyone benefits.

I've said it before, and I'm sure I'll say it again, but even small changes in traffic volumes make a big difference in journey times.

Daily variation is around 2%, so those days which take longer than normal for no reason vs those days which you get there faster for no reason is that level of difference. As such, if car use could be reduced by 2% most days should be like those good days.

Likewise, school traffic accounts for about 10% of traffic during term time, yet during the school holidays journey times are significantly better. As such, a reduction of 10% would make traveling much less congested.

For most people not using a car at all is impractical, however using their cars a little less can make a big difference.

If I was to ask if anyone could cut out their car use from 100 households, almost none of them could, probably even those where they have a car which does 5,000 miles a year.

However, quite a few could probably reduce it a bit. If those 100 households could (as an average) reduced their car use by 2 miles a week, that would reduce risk miles travelled by over 10,000 miles for the year.

Ah average of 2 miles a week isn't a lot, that's maybe an at home parent (be that WFH, or not in paid employment, or works in the evening, or wherever their at home during the day) walking their kids to school between Easter and October 2 days a week and driving the rest of the time rather than always driving.

For others it might be doing one or two long journeys a year by public transport, for others it might be WFH one day every 1 to 3 months, for some it could be waking their kids to a club/lesson (swimming, gymnastics, rugby, football, etc.), for others it'll be something else.

For some they may manage more than an average of 2 miles a week, for others they won't be able to manage anything more than maybe 2 miles a year, however with a large enough group it becomes possible for the to be enough of a change.

For some, having made some reductions they could realise that they don't actually need a second car, especially if they could have access to a car club vehicle for the few times they did need it. Car club vehicles can fairly easily be EV's, as if they are being used so much that they have problems being kept charged by anything other than a 13amp plug then there's probably enough demand for another vehicle.

This is quite illuminating.

Is there anyone here who has an EV but doesn't charge at either home or work?

A good question. I have not seen an answer yet.

For me my car usage is so low I probably do not care about the cost of charging but it does mean driving somewhere that I would normally walk to just to charge an EV.

I can only judge by what I see in my own area, and I don't see that many public charging points,

there's a service station down by Glyn Gap, with a bank of chargers, but I'm not sure if my local Asda has chargers, it has a small pump station, my local Lidl does not have chargers, nor the BP station next to it, so whilst on paper it looks like there's plenty of provision, its clearly only in some areas,

I would guess this is the same nationwide but will get better as more charging stations open, my argument is that the superstructure to support widespread EV use is still not at the point were going electric is a viable option for some people.

Remark was made about using the car less, Well I shop at Lidl, normally, and normally if i drive its 5 mins to drive, and I can do my shop, get home and all told it takes about 30 mins, there is no direct bus route, so if i go by bus, its two busses, and last time I did that, it took nearly 2 hours, from my door , to getting back home, So, not exactly viable, I could get a taxi, yes, and its about £8 each way,

This is my problem. I bend over backwards to avoid car use. That is less likely to happen with most people I suspect. I can see shops getting harder and harder to get to without a car.

Did you deliberately choose to live somewhere where access to shops etc. is difficult without a car? There are plenty of people in the UK who don't have a car at all yet manage to go everywhere they want to. Not all of them live in big cities.

In my case what has changed is the local shops have gone and the fairly local town centre shops have largely gone even though that is where the public transport still goes, albeit less than it used to. It is getting very obvious that planners have no time for public transport - In central Croydon some bus routes have been moved further from the town centre as roads get turned over to cycle lanes. My bus route into Croydon now has stops that are further from the town centre.

 

[GusB]

The problem, isn't so much the idea, it's the installation, and the time it would take to implement,
The cost would probably make it uneconomic to do, the only way Batteries can compete, Is I would say, when the charging technology can recharge a battery in under 5 mins,

If the money that chargers make over time is greater than the cost of installation, then it won't be uneconomic. If those chargers are integrated into lamp-posts, then charging revenue also goes towards the cost of running those. When councils are under increasing financial pressure, it's a good opportunity to raise some extra cash.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Apr 2026 ==

The point is that car culture has lead to my 41 year old step son defaulting to driving such incredibly short distances.

That's not car culture; it's laziness!

Besides, it makes no difference if his car is electric or ICE powered, so I fail to see how it's relevant to the thread.