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UK switching to electric vehicles discussion
- Thread starter MattA7
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RailUK Forums
Things are already very different. I haven't waited for a charger for over 2 years now. Just got back from 2 week in Cornwall (we're near Norwich). One 18 minutes charge at Amesbury on the way there (plus other stops for leg stretching, toilets etc). Stopped Exeter and South Mimms on the way back ~ 10 minutes charge at each. No issues charging on Cornwall as distances are short, there were AC chargers in the car park at the town we were staying and there are multiple rapid charge options on the A30, and more going in (although we didn't need to use any of them).
Every time I went for a charger, there were plugs free.
Snow1964
Established Member
Having changed to an electric car about 3 months ago, on the handful of occasions been away from home for many days and needed to use a public charger, always been some free.
Finding that 2 or 3 chargers 50-100kW (usually serving 2 each) are now quite common in market town car parks. Easy to give the car 15-25 minutes boost whilst have a stroll around somewhere new. I think term used is rapid charger, the old fast charger is now usually seen as slow.
The charge rate drops if you try and charge to near full, but in most cases these quick top ups add about 100 miles range, to the 50+ miles still available when we think makes sense to add some whilst convenient.
Some might be thinking, you have actively gone to a bigger town, but these days most petrol stations are on edges of big towns in the rural areas. I have driven some rural counties and not seen petrol stations for 30, 40 miles. There are now only about 8350 sites nationally, a few decades back was over 50,000 petrol stations. So nowadays often have to detour slightly to find a petrol station, which are far fewer locations than public chargers
People selling dirt cheap cars don't sell them on Autotrader - they're on Facebook Marketplace and Gumtree. Pal of mine bought a Corsa van with a trailer for £1k last year from Facebook. Listing on Autotrader costs money, paid up-front, which people buying/selling cheap cars often don't have going spare really.
My partner earns an above-average salary. She does not have £3.5k to spend on a car. Her old car (£2.5k a year and a half ago?) became uneconomical to repair recently, so we're trialling being a one car household.
A lot of people take out cars on finance of course, but they're effectively renting them with the way a lot of finance arrangements work. My partner does not want a car on finance. That many people take out finance to buy £15k cars on Autotrader isn't a sign that people actually have £15k to spend on a car.
I suspect that a lot of people don't even have your budget for a car
I don't regard myself as living in a very rich area, and there are very few old cars - and even fewer £500-1000 banger territory cars. I'd say most people have cars well under ten years old, and most likely most of the newer cars are indeed financed in some way.
If you shop the deal, not the car, you can get hassle free motoring with a car that will have a warranty for the whole time of ownership and maybe set you back £200-250 a month (and possibly even less with, say, a Dacia Spring).
People likely don't want the risks of buying an older ICE car as even getting a check done doesn't guarantee no surprises down the line. By comparison if you were to buy an old EV then it's pretty easy to do checks that will ensure no nasty surprises. Check the suspension, brakes etc, and get a proper analysis of the battery health. Job done.
So getting an older car would definitely make an EV a safer bet. Especially as you're not likely buying an old car if you had to do large mileages.
If you shop the deal, not the car, you can get hassle free motoring with a car that will have a warranty for the whole time of ownership and maybe set you back £200-250 a month (and possibly even less with, say, a Dacia Spring).
People likely don't want the risks of buying an older ICE car as even getting a check done doesn't guarantee no surprises down the line. By comparison if you were to buy an old EV then it's pretty easy to do checks that will ensure no nasty surprises. Check the suspension, brakes etc, and get a proper analysis of the battery health. Job done.
So getting an older car would definitely make an EV a safer bet. Especially as you're not likely buying an old car if you had to do large mileages.
That’s fair, but as you have found yourself, cars of that value often end up beyond repair economicsl very quickly - a false economy some might say.
but that doesn’t preclude her from buying a car of that galue or more, but…
which is fair enough*, but not a constraint that most of the car buying population put on themselves.
* for what its worth, I too do not want to buy a car on finance directly, and in my near 40 years of car ownership have never done so. The way I finance my cars is, effectively, through my mortgage, which is a rather cheaper way of doing it.
Snow1964
Established Member
I think you probably need to clarify this statement, it does't work for most, the mortgage rate might be lower than a loan, but unless you are near paid up date of mortgage, end up with more interest being paid if add it to a mortgage (as a consolidation).
Not very sensible if got 20 years to go on mortgage as you will still be paying for car in 20 years time, years after got rid of car. Most mortgages have repayments 3-5 times amount borrowed.
Anybody who is paying for a car outright (ie not using a specific car finance deal or loan), and has a mortgage, is effectively using their mortgage to pay for the car.
Personally I remortgage every 2-5 years, and vary the amount on the mortgage depending on what lumpy expenditure I have coming up. At present I have a very low mortgage rate, so am using that to finance many things (including investments back with the same provider!)
Would I own the car outright at any point under those deals?
Quick calculation suggests that in the 8.5 years I've had my current car, that would be between £20k and £25k spent, so more than double what I paid for it.
This is the point I was trying to make really.
Under many finance arrangements people don't actually own their cars at the end. Either they've leased them, or they're in a finance arrangement where they can't afford the final purchase, or they end up switching to a different car under a new finance arrangement.
Figures on car ownership vary as there's no official data source, but Go Compare has it down as 59.8% of people paid for their cars outright as of 2023. If you went back 20 years say, I'm sure that figure would have been much higher. It won't be longer before a majority of cars are financed.
This is something I'm strongly against, though I do believe free market should apply so short of trying to convince people they don't need heated steering wheels or USB ports for rear passengers, the trend towards people buying cars they can't afford will continue.
No, although you can sometimes buy the car at the end of the lease - or extend the lease.
The point is that people get a reliable, fuss-free, car they can change every 3-5 years and for a fixed sum that is manageable. £200 isn't pocket change but if you consider a mobile phone subscription, Sky, various streaming subs and other things people pay monthly then it's not such a ridiculous deal.
The downside is you don't have a car the moment you end the lease, just as you lose all your music if you cancel Spotify. Plenty of people are happy with this arrangement. Obviously some aren't.
Siimo
Member
I got my first EV as a personal lease, as it was the only way to afford one with sufficient battery capacity for my needs. As it was the tail end of the pandemic and a small car (Zoe 50) I got a very good deal, costing me less than the running costs on my diesel which was starting to develop faults centred around the DPF. It kept flashing messages saying 'check anti-pollution system' so I took that to its logical conclusion.
Last year I gave back the lease car and bought a much higher-spec used EV for a good price for cash. I daresay a lot of the misinformation around electric vehicles contributed to it being competitively priced. Despite not having home charging (yet, it's not impossible) I would never want to go back to ICE unless I was ever buying a classic.
Last year I gave back the lease car and bought a much higher-spec used EV for a good price for cash. I daresay a lot of the misinformation around electric vehicles contributed to it being competitively priced. Despite not having home charging (yet, it's not impossible) I would never want to go back to ICE unless I was ever buying a classic.
Snow1964
Established Member
Dft has announced extension of grants for electric vans and trucks
www.gov.uk
Government discounts for electric vans and trucks extended
Plug-in van and truck grant extended to at least 2027.
61653 HTAFC
Veteran Member
We're poverty-shaming on here now, are we? That's good to know.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
No, we're talking a fact of life, which is that when you're poor you often can't afford things that you might want. There was no shaming at all in the statement.
They'll get more expensive as small A-segment cars get rarer and rarer - although we're hopefully going to see more small cars return in EV form, especially from the Chinese (bar trade barriers and tariffs making them too expensive). Small cars were killed off, not because car makers couldn't make a profit, but because they don't make enough profit. As such, second hand cars hold their value due to high-demand and these are the very cars that people on low incomes rely on, for things like getting to work at hours that don't suit public transport (or even perhaps walking or cycling).
Your purchase of a used ZEV for a good price reflects the savage depreciation of a ZEV contrasted with IC engine cars.I got my first EV as a personal lease, as it was the only way to afford one with sufficient battery capacity for my needs. As it was the tail end of the pandemic and a small car (Zoe 50) I got a very good deal, costing me less than the running costs on my diesel which was starting to develop faults centred around the DPF. It kept flashing messages saying 'check anti-pollution syste
Last year I gave back the lease car and bought a much higher-spec used EV for a good price for cash. I daresay a lot of the misinformation around electric vehicles contributed to it being competitively priced. Despite not having home charging (yet, it's not impossible) I would never want to go back to ICE unless I was ever buying a classic.
The finance companies who funded the lease schemes seriously overestimated the end of lease values of ZEVs, they are on the hook for great losses due to savage depreciation and are lobbying the Govt for assistance.
I attach a letter, a tale of woe, written by the BVRA to the Govt committees overseers of the transition to electrification road vehicles
Not at all; I don’t see how my post could be interpreted that way - I was just demonstrating that second hand cars of all types cost a fair bit of cash - but sorry if it was.
I don't think people realised how quick battery prices were going to fall. The upside is cheaper EVs, not just traditional second hand and off lease cars, but even new cars pre-registered and sold at up to 50% off. There are even occasional deals of cars not even registered but approaching a year old, with huge discounts.
It serves the anti EV brigade to use this as an attack on them, but rather than buy an ICE car (which will also depreciate massively when people no longer want to buy one), the solution is to take advantage of these price cuts.
Eventually the tech will mature and it won't keep seeing huge discounts, and prices will settle in that the list prices will be lower to begin with. It's only the fact we now see EVs from as low as £13-14k instead of £25-35k that the market is sorting itself out.
Sun Chariot
Established Member
It reassures me to see prices drop for pre-reg and near-new EV models.
There must still be big variations across the market - as the Volvo dealership across the road from us still has its 74/25 pre-reg cars priced £60k to £75k and 3 year old models still in the £25k to £35k range. Optimistic pricing?
The situation is good for everyone but the person who bought a brand new car. It is the same benefit that applies to ICE cars and the reason why smart people bought ex-demo or low mileage pre registered ICE cars for decades.
It's funny that something that makes EVs far cheaper is being attacked as some sort of proof of why you should buy an ICE car.
Why would anyone think an ICE car is going to retain much value by 2030 or 2035 when fuel will likely be way more expensive, most cars actively being driven will be electric and many more fuel stations will have closed?
I sold my diesel car for fantastic money post Covid when all prices were high because I knew that as more low emission zones came the car would be less and less usable and therefore less valuable. At some point ICE values will fall off a cliff as more and more people seek to sell, assuming they aren't just going to be run into the ground.
It's funny that something that makes EVs far cheaper is being attacked as some sort of proof of why you should buy an ICE car.
Why would anyone think an ICE car is going to retain much value by 2030 or 2035 when fuel will likely be way more expensive, most cars actively being driven will be electric and many more fuel stations will have closed?
I sold my diesel car for fantastic money post Covid when all prices were high because I knew that as more low emission zones came the car would be less and less usable and therefore less valuable. At some point ICE values will fall off a cliff as more and more people seek to sell, assuming they aren't just going to be run into the ground.
Do EVs lose any/much charge when left unused? I often don't drive my car* between Sunday and Friday, if it were an EV woul it be losing charge in that time?
*I only have it because my dad gave it to me when he stopped driving due to age and declining eyesight, I almost certainly won't bother replacing it when it gives up the ghost which shouldn't be for a while as it's still only done 40k in its 11 year lifespan.
*I only have it because my dad gave it to me when he stopped driving due to age and declining eyesight, I almost certainly won't bother replacing it when it gives up the ghost which shouldn't be for a while as it's still only done 40k in its 11 year lifespan.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
It would probably depend on the integration between the 12V accessory battery which most EVs still have and the traction battery. I know for a fact that on a Kia e-Niro the 12V battery only charges from the traction battery when the "ignition" is on, which can result in one needing to be jump started even if the traction battery is full, because I diagnosed that fault on a friend's car for him and as a result managed to get him going again!
If the 12V battery charges all the time and/or there isn't one I'd expect a small drop for things like the alarm. If it doesn't then there wouldn't be much of a drop on the traction battery while the car is off but there would be a tiny loss in range once turned back on as it recharges. It might well even out between the two I suppose, depending on losses while charging one battery from the other at the different times.
In summary I'd expect a small loss but not a significant one.
It depends on the model of car, and the settings for the car.
If the car is just sitting there, then there will be a gradual loss of charge. For a KIA EV3, I've seen people say they had a 10% loss of charge in 7 weeks. Someone else's car lost 26% charge in 3 1/2 weeks. That was a problem, which was fixed with a reset/reboot of the car.
I don't think this is because the battery loses that much charge on its own, its that the car is a computer with wheels, and it does not shut down completely. In particular, if you connect to the car with the app, then it will wake up the car and use more power.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
In effect it's the same as a petrol car - the 12V battery (or equivalent) discharges slowly for things like the alarm, and when you fire up the car and drive it it charges up. Recharging the 12V battery will also cause a small loss of range on a petrol car as petrol is burnt to do it, but people aren't obsessed with range on petrol cars (because it varies so wildly based on driving style and conditions), they just look at the fuel gauge, which isn't granular enough to really notice something like that.
Harpers Tate
Established Member
- Joined
- 10 May 2013
- Messages
- 2,054
In that period of time: no, not to any degree you will notice. Over a few weeks parked at an airport - maybe a bit. I left mine at Manchester for 2 weeks in January with freezing (literally) conditions at an outside uncovered hotel car park. And when I got back: no noticeable change. Mine DOES maintain the 12 battery when switched off. So - trivial, I'd say.
My car goes to sleep but maintains a cellular connection to allow for checking the status of the doors/locks, which also shows state of charge and miles remaining. It also allows me to turn on the climate control to cool or heat the car in advance. That must be measured in watts, not kilowatts, so I wouldn't expect it to make that much difference.