For buses, the cameras seem smaller than the mirrors, and can be positioned higher up. They can therefore avoid hitting waiting passengers as they pull into a bus stop or lay-by. (Many buses have yellow covers on their mirrors to try to make them more obvious to pedestrians and would be passengers.)
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UK switching to electric vehicles discussion
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Peter Sarf
Established Member
Indeed. Being 6ft2in I often find myself within range of bus mirrors.
it;s alsomost as though you aren;t aware of the TfL DVS and the upcoming changes to it
Direct Vision Standard and HGV Safety Permit Scheme
All lorries over 12 tonnes gross vehicle weight need to be granted a permit to enter or operate in Greater London. The scheme was created to improve the safety of all road users.
tfl.gov.uk
I have never seen a charging station with the price on the "pump" let alone the main sign.
GLC
Member
- Joined
- 21 Nov 2018
- Messages
- 403
A service station was built near me around a year ago, which includes such a sign, although it’s separate to the petrol price sign, and the site doesn’t yet have any chargers!
Will this require legislation? I assume that's the only reason petrol stations have large signs showing their prices by the road.
It seems mad to make people drive up and start to interact with the EV charger before knowing the price.
SWT_USER
Member
I've finally got my car back!
It was a faulty module which needed swapping out. Great that is was a relatively simple fix but it took far too long to do. Really pleased to have it back though and after two months I'd forgotten how nice it was to drive compared to ICE.
Anecdotally I have noticed lots more street chargers (including lamp post ones) going up in my area, presumably these are relatively straightforward to install given the low power draw. Have the issues with motorway service stations not being able to install more due to insufficient national grid power been resolved?
DelW
Established Member
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- 6,035
I don't think they're mandatory - my local Sainsbury's has a filling station but there's no price signage other than on the pumps themselves. I never use it, partly because I don't want to queue up then find that it's more expensive than local alternatives.
A couple of years ago I filled up at a BP station in Dunfermline and the pump price was 2p per litre more than the outside sign. When I complained to the cashier, they just said "oh, someone must have forgotten to change it, the pump price us the one we charge" without any apology or even embarrassment. I've not been back there since.
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I think there are supply chain issues in multiple industries, not just automotive. Companies who chose "just in time" inventories and single sourcing from distant cheap-labour countries, didn't think adequately about the possible downsides. Shipping problems, wars and general geopolitical instability can easily break the chain and leave companies unable to build or repair their core products.
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Good to hear you have your car back, I assume the swapped part is a battery module. Did they explain what was wrong? Perhaps a cell or cells in the defective module were overheating in service, perhaps a diagnostic circuit was giving false information.I've finally got my car back!
It was a faulty module which needed swapping out. Great that is was a relatively simple fix but it took far too long to do. Really pleased to have it back though and after two months I'd forgotten how nice it was to drive compared to ICE.
SWT_USER
Member
I'm not technical at all, but as I understand it there was a bad cell (they did tell me which one it was) which was swapped out. I don't know what the actual issue with it was, whether that was false information generating the warning or if it was actually overheating.
The original warning was 'risk of fire'. Could have been a genuine fault detection, for which subsequent fire was a real, if rare, risk.
Someone I know is having battery issues with their Tesla and because Tesla have closed a few of their garages it's taking longer than it should to get it fixed.
As changing the 12v battery which every car has should take less than an hour to do.
As changing the 12v battery which every car has should take less than an hour to do.
While I’m slightly sceptical we’re actually there yet (who ever paid full list price for a Vauxhall?) it’s definitely a sign that EV prices are getting much closer to ICE.
electrek.co
Price parity is here: new Stellantis crossover is the same price, EV or ICE
The interesting new about the new SUV is this: whether you go with gas or electric, the price you pay remains the same.
electrek.co
Price parity is here: new Stellantis crossover is the same price, EV or ICE
Jo Borrás | Oct 13 2024 - 5:00 am PT
4 Comments
The newest midsize crossover in Stellantis’ European lineup is available in five or seven-passenger configurations with either mild hybrid ICE or BEV drivetrain configurations – but that’s not the interesting part. The interesting part is this: whether you go with gas or electric, the price you pay remains the same. (!)
Price parity, in the context of EVs, basically means that it would cost the same to buy an electric version of a car as an internal combustion version. Whether or not making parity a priority makes sense (and there are plenty who would argue that it doesn’t), there is still a persistent belief that EVs cost more than comparable gas cars.
Well, they did, anyway. The new Vauxhall Frontera shown here is a mid-size crossover set to launch in the UK later this year with a £23,495 price tag (approx. $30,705) for the ICE version … and £23,495 for the BEV.
No going back
2025 Vauxhall Frontera; via Stellantis.
The Frontera SUV is part of a broader plan to revitalize Stellantis’ brands in Europe – which is going significantly better than its US plan, it must be said.
“The New Frontera is our new family-size SUV, offering customers innovative and practical electric mobility at an affordable price,” says James Taylor, Managing Director, Vauxhall. “Highly flexible with up to seven seats, spacious, and with a choice of hybrid and electric powertrains, we’re confident that Frontera will appeal to new and existing audiences as well as sit very well in our revised SUV line-up in between Mokka and the forthcoming All-New Grandland.”
While I’m slightly sceptical we’re actually there yet (who ever paid full list price for a Vauxhall?) it’s definitely a sign that EV prices are getting much closer to ICE.
Price parity is here: new Stellantis crossover is the same price, EV or ICE
The interesting new about the new SUV is this: whether you go with gas or electric, the price you pay remains the same.
The ICE version is actually a hybrid, which usually has a higher price than pure ICEs. Since it is a new model, and not a replacement, it is not easy to see if the hybrid price has gone up or the EV price has come down.
I also think ICE prices will rise because of the fines imposed on car manufacturers if they sell less than a certain %age of total sales as EV (or possibly hybrids). To cover the cost of the fines, ICE car prices must presumably rise.
Or alternatively, the number of IC vehicles available be on a quota, meaning that their fans will be weaned off them as their availability is reduced to zero. be reduced to zero.
Can you see car manufacturers leaving production lines empty so that they can meet quotas? Car manufacturers want to pump out as many cars as possible to maximise profits and recover overheads over as many units as possible.
Quotas should not be used to wean people off ICE cars. The argument should be won by the overall attractiveness of the EV product - "You can't buck the market", to quote Margaret Thatcher. EV cars should be attractively priced, have sufficient range, have no insurance uplifts, or other concerns etc. They will then be attractive in their own right and may well be the default for any new car purchase, but quotas are not the way forward.
Can you see car manufacturers offering cars for less than the cost of making them to persuade a few to break their use of ICVs? They may not actually be stating that there is a quota in operation, but increasing buyers' difficulty in sourcing them will do the same thing.
I would not buy an EV until it is better as an overall package than an ICE, and I don't understand why anyone would. Why would anyone buy what they consider to be an inferior product?
Car manufacturers will not reduce the price of an EV unless the costs of manufacturing them have reduced. No car manufacturer will make a loss on each sale. There is therefore a tipping point which we have not yet reached, when EVs become the vehicle of choice based on price, range etc etc. Therefore we are at an impasse, and I cannot see anything changing until the costs of manufacture, and thence price, reduces, which could come about through technological advances. Relatively speaking, we are still at the early stages of EV manufacture, and advances will come.
EV batteries are expected to drop in cost by another 50% or so next year, bringing the cost of the battery packs down by maybe $2-3k. The question is whether these discounts are passed on, or used to bolster profit margins.
I guess it also depends on whether we have cartels in the car industry. Will one car maker dare reduce its prices to sell more, or just work with others to keep prices high?
This is why I don't think buying an EV right now is a good idea, because the cost of a new EV will only be getting cheaper as time goes on (and that's even with inflation) and that will hit residuals. Far better to lease or even rent with one of the car subscription services, so someone else will take the hit. On the plus side, it all just keeps meaning that second hand EVs are going to become even better deals year after year - plus despite the fact most people will never need to change their battery, anyone that does and can't source one from a scrapyard or whatever will find that a brand new, factory-fresh, battery is going to be less.
By 2030, I can't see many people still wanting an ICE vehicle, or even a hybrid. The latter may still have a market for some edge cases, but a pure ICE? The demand is likely to be such that I can't see them being sold in many markets. Car makers could still make them for some places, but do you think they'll be sold in the UK?
I guess it also depends on whether we have cartels in the car industry. Will one car maker dare reduce its prices to sell more, or just work with others to keep prices high?
This is why I don't think buying an EV right now is a good idea, because the cost of a new EV will only be getting cheaper as time goes on (and that's even with inflation) and that will hit residuals. Far better to lease or even rent with one of the car subscription services, so someone else will take the hit. On the plus side, it all just keeps meaning that second hand EVs are going to become even better deals year after year - plus despite the fact most people will never need to change their battery, anyone that does and can't source one from a scrapyard or whatever will find that a brand new, factory-fresh, battery is going to be less.
By 2030, I can't see many people still wanting an ICE vehicle, or even a hybrid. The latter may still have a market for some edge cases, but a pure ICE? The demand is likely to be such that I can't see them being sold in many markets. Car makers could still make them for some places, but do you think they'll be sold in the UK?
Add to the initial purchase price disincentives when sticking with ICVs, there's the steady increase in fuel costs, both from rising taxes, (either direct or indirect) and the greater proportion of manufacturing and distribution costs that will be recovered from a dwindling number of buyers. Filling stations will be closed at an even greater rate than they are now. Just look at how the cost of coal has risen.
I was at Everything Electric over the weekend and saw the Renault 5 EV that I have fallen in love with, and next to the Renault stand was Octopus, who hope to be announcing their complete package (car, servicing, tyres, 4,000 miles of charging for free, home charger install and so on) and with it being one of the first to support V2G (Vehicle to Grid) which is subject to regulator approval.
If this approval is given, Octopus will be using this as one of the first cars to be 'sold' with a hook up to take power from the Renault battery to balance the grid, with payments being made - or perhaps just powering the home during the peak times of 1600-1900. Given many home batteries are going to be nearer 5, 10 or 15kWh and the ca`r has 40-50kWh, that's quite a lot of power that many people may be willing to sacrifice some power from to make money. I don't know what output the car can do, with many home batteries only being able to give 3-4kWh, but this is something that's going to clearly make a huge difference in the future.
Octopus will also package up solar panels, heat pumps and whatever else you want - which will surely encourage more and more people to invest in solutions that could see the near or even total elimination of monthly bills... and payback times for the investment in under 10 years in some cases (admittedly, there's a lot of talk about the reduction in income from selling energy back to the grid at all but the most busy times, as supply increases) but I'm still keen on being more energy independent, with the income from selling excess power not being my primary goal.
I've just moved over to Octopus and despite problems in wrestling control of export from OVO, a newly installed 10kWh battery has certainly helped reduce our carbon footprint.
Their VtoG plans that you mentioned are also encouraging as the capacity of a typical car battery exceeds the practical home battery size. That brings the possibility of emergency off-line cover into play. My new inverter has the ability to deliver up to 3kW to a high priority load, (e.g. a freezer and some emergency lighting) via an auxiliary output. Such a facility can increase supply security if/when grid limitations cause local load shedding.
Yes but it’s only a mild hybrid, which is fairly standard these days, not a PHEV (or ‘self charging’ car).
The range is a full EV or a mild hybrid ICE.
This evening would be a good time to export to the grid. Consumer price gets as high as 71p/kWh at one point.
69p from 1830 here. But quite possibly back to zero or negative later in the week.
I think the huge jump today (highest for all of 2024?) is down to some losses of supply and a 35% risk of not being able to meet demand.
I got -1p yesterday so used that time to do some 90 degrees washing of bed linen so I think I'll still be quids in despite the spike. But a battery would be great for these occasions.
Er I think that’s what I said/is the point of the ‘price parity’ comparison (even though I don’t think the comparison is fair/truly there yet).
I think we're at cross purposes. The announcement from Stellantis or the 'news' implied that this was the first EV car which is priced the same as an ICE, whereas the ICE version is actually a hybrid. Therefore it is not so surprising that a hybrid and an EV are the same price. An EV at the same price as a plain ICE would be news.
I got some washing done first thing Sunday, essentially for free. Also cranked the bathroom heating (electric, underfloor) up. Tomorrow is more sensibly priced, if still a little higher than usual. Wind is forecast to pick up Tuesday night/Wednesday morning so expect a bit of a drop then. Friday is looking even better.