UK rail looking good....

[Metroland]

In fairness, every time something goes wrong with the railway people do moan - look at the threads you get on here - so its refreshing to see something positive

Indeed. Enthusiasts and Railwaymen are on the whole far too negative, in general, which doesn't do anyone's image any good.

Considering the powered railway is now a 200 year old invention, it's doing remarkably well as is quite capable seeing off the competition - for example talk of new high speed lines, crossrail and tramways.

Railwaymen tend to be in well paid and secure jobs, we have record investment, pretty much the best time keeping on record (and certainly better than the competition), the best service ever with more passenger traffic than there ever was on most lines, and lots of intelligent, bright people interested in them from all ages.

Certainly when I was at School in the late 80s/early 90s, as a geography project pupils were encouraged to write essays on new motorways. People like me, who wanted to write an essay on rail transport were discouraged. These days, everything has switched around, and the railways are no longer viewed as a sunset industry, more a green, social, good way to get about that is expanding and to be encouraged.

 

[Striker]

Ten bad tales for every good one? You don't think much of the railways then!ones.

I don't think much of British Railways.

Striker has already admitted on this forum that he is "neither a rail expert or rail enthusiast"... He also said in one of his earliest posts on this forum that he was "glad that he left the complete dump [Britain, in his opinion]", so he presumably doesn't live here anymore, and thus isn't in a great position to judge a system which he doesn't use, at least not regularly.

forum.

With all due respect, how do you know how often I use British trains? I do use trains in Britain very regularly and have done for the last several years. Not just in one part of the country either. But I'm also in a position to compare them with trains throughout Europe, which I also use regularly. Germany, Holland, France, Switzerland and Belgium mainly. Last week I was even in Japan. So don't come on here and start presuming things about me.

And, just because vie made a few joke posts and got people's backs up, it doesn't mean that every single post is a joke. This is one of them.

 

[Butts]

I don't think he's been out much since the smoking ban...

Good point - mind you he's still with us despite all those havanas !!

 

[The Barlow Boy]

In fairness, every time something goes wrong with the railway people do moan - look at the threads you get on here - so its refreshing to see something positive

And with the size of the fares they've a right to moan. When it all went wrong on Wednesday evening when I was trying to get from St. Pancras to East Croydon the standard of information that we were being given was appalling. First the Brighton train was going to arrive at 18.05, then at 17.55 it was in the Harlington area, then at 18.12 it was just leaving St. Albans. With telephones and telescreens someone should have done better than that.

Positive? OK. I pitched up at Leighton Buzzard the following day at 16.50 not knowing the time of the next train to Euston. The next train was a non stopper at 16.53, clean, comfortable, lots of seats and bang on time. Did the same at St. Pancras after a fast trot there arrived at 17.38 to discover a 17.40. On time, plenty of seats.

Just to compare incidentally, the car journey going the other way was one and a half hours door to door.

The thing is, when the rail system is good it can be very good and a match for anyone else's. But when it's bad it's total pants.

 

[RichW1]

I'd say in terms of frequencies, station environments, travel process and new trains, this is an amazing network. Intercity wise, it will ultimately be the secondary IC network with HS railways in charge over the decades. I don't know of a country with a better secondary network that parallels HS routes. There are a couple of pendolino routes on the continent that I believe are challenging now, however that's nothing ERTMS won't sort out by 2030.

All in all, and excellent network given the previous decades of under-investment and considering we were starting from a very low base!

My only criticisms: We ripped up too much track in the last 15years making pathing and capacity even more difficult (why this was done I have no idea; seems extremely stupid)

Finally, too much of the old stock was withdrawn too soon and now we are short of trains. The new stock that was ordered (IC only) has been shorter than the old stock it replaced!!!! Cross country used to have about 7 coaches behind a 47, now voyagers although with longer coaches are still shorter over all and have less seats as a result. Now we have chronic overcrowding - very bad forsight whoever thought that idiotic move up. Also, trans-pennine with mark 1's had more capacity than today!

 

[87031]

I agree with the points above in terms of the stock being taken out of service too early, Liverpool-Norwich chronic overcrowding along with transpennine services the rolling stock is not sufficent too cover these routes. Class 185s are one of the better new trains along with 350s in terms of design but there not long enough for the routes they serve along with voyagers which are substandard for busy cross country routes.

 

[ainsworth74]

I agree that capacity on the XC and TPE is woefully inadequate but lets not lose sight of the improvements that they have brought. On XC the introduction of Voyagers has led to reliable (because the 47+Mk2 was not that reliable), quicker and crucially much more frequent services across nearly the whole XC network. Same is true on TPE the retirement of loco hauled services has led to a host of benefits for the traveller. It's just a shame that the voyagers weren't built as 6/7 car units and the 185s as 4 car units.

I have to agree with the OP generally speaking looking at the railway we have today, it certainly is an impressive thing. With so many routes seeing quick, reliable and frequent services. Of course there are problems (chronic overcrowding in many areas perhaps being the main one) but on the whole we have a very good railway network in this country.

 

[Striker]

I'd say in terms of frequencies, station environments, travel process and new trains, this is an amazing network. Intercity wise, it will ultimately be the secondary IC network with HS railways in charge over the decades. I don't know of a country with a better secondary network that parallels HS routes. There are a couple of pendolino routes on the continent that I believe are challenging now, however that's nothing ERTMS won't sort out by 2030.

All in all, and excellent network given the previous decades of under-investment and considering we were starting from a very low base!

My only criticisms: We ripped up too much track in the last 15years making pathing and capacity even more difficult (why this was done I have no idea; seems extremely stupid)

Finally, too much of the old stock was withdrawn too soon and now we are short of trains. The new stock that was ordered (IC only) has been shorter than the old stock it replaced!!!! Cross country used to have about 7 coaches behind a 47, now voyagers although with longer coaches are still shorter over all and have less seats as a result. Now we have chronic overcrowding - very bad forsight whoever thought that idiotic move up. Also, trans-pennine with mark 1's had more capacity than today!

Although the services you mention are woefully short of capacity, the frequencies have been upped massively, so it's not a simple case of putting on smaller trains. I don't remember you being able to travel between Leeds and Manchester every 15 mins when they were loco hauled.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

Apart from the lack of Capacity when things go tits up, personally I think the railways at present are the best that they have been in a long long time, wether some people like it or not privatisation brought alot of money into something that was neglected for a very very long time, lack of funding made people leave the railway in their droves, the last 10 years has seen more and more passengers and freight back onto the tracks, I don't agree with privatisation but I do agree that at the time it was the only way money would be pumped into the system

 

[daccer]

I have to agree with the OP in all regards. We really can be a little negative with regards to the uk railway network and I have always found it a little confusing. I worked for BR and have been living in South Africa for a few years now. When i go back to the UK I always travel by rail and even did an ALL-Line rover a couple of years back so that I could see more of the country. My experiences have always been positive.

Over here the trains are wretched and used only when there is no alternative. Every time I return to the UK I see marked improvements (i don't know if it is a privatisation thing or simply a general acceptance that rail has a future now whereas it was always being run down during the 70's and 80's). It does help that I use the MML to get home and so have the joy of passing through St Pancras regularly.

The service is obviously patchy and overcrowding is an issue - all I would say about this is that if peak hour trains were half empty there would be major calls for heads to roll for waste and over provision of expensive rolling stock. Matching the needs of the commuter to a cost-effective solution for the TOC's and NR is always going to involve some compromise.

My last small point concerns NR. It gets a rough time on the whole and there have been some mistakes made. However they have managed to draw out massive settlements from the Govt and are targeting the money in generally the right directions - BNS, Reading, Cotswold re-doubling etc - the waste seems to be being cut down and cash is being targeted in the right areas. My own concern is that NR do not seem to be leaders in re-openings and growing the network At the moment there is no real focus on getting lines re-opened and we may have missed a trick. With the new austerity measures coming in we may struggle to see new lines (exepct HS2) being re-opened - contrast this to the massive expansions taking place on privatised railways and we surely have to ask why if this really has been a secodn golden age for the train why we haven't seen more re-openings.

 

[dk1]

Spent a fair bit of time at Crewe Friday & Saturday after travelling down from Euston & back via Derby, Nottingham & St.Pancras. Considering the distances & mix of traffic at Crewe delays where never more than 12 minutes & the West Coast was operating like clockwork. All trains seemed very busy but comfortable. The quietest was the 13.28 HST form Nottingham which had no more than a dozen in each coach & very few waiting at EM Parkway or Leicester. Finished it off with a 6min whiz from Barlows impressive trainshed to the less impressive Stratford Intl!!

 

[MCR247]

The Nottingham HSTs are always empty!

 

[RichW1]

Nottingham to London trains are quite an empty loading? I've not done the route so am interested that that would be the case.

 

[MCR247]

Off peak, most fast trains to Nottingham are half empty HSTs. The stoppers are normally busier

 

[Pumbaa]

Off peak, most fast trains to Nottingham are half empty HSTs. The stoppers are normally busier

A lot busier, can almost be standing on the usual 5 car allocation, while the HST swans past. Admittedly however, the HST would not be able to keep to time on the current slow path.

 

[RichW1]

Well that's educated me; certainly not much business directly between the 2 cities on their own then.

BTW are the midlands HST's re-engined? All valentas are gone now aren't they?

 

[the sniper]

BTW are the midlands HST's re-engined? All valentas are gone now aren't they?

Yep, they're all gone now.

 

[yorksrob]

I would certainly agree that rail is the best way to get around. I think the improvements are mainly due to the Government investing more money in the system over the past twenty years or so. I think there has been a change in the establishment mindset that actually, the railways are quite important and that the previous approach of running them down will lead to problems.

At least I hope that nobody is sharpening the axe.

 

[dk1]

The Nottingham HSTs are always empty!

Very nice for Market Harborough. They get a train with guaranteed empty seats & non-stop to London .

The trolley was also announced as static in the old buffet area!! No reason as to why.

 

[Techniquest]

I feel I ought to add a couple of 'good news' stories to this myself.

Last week I went to Northern Ireland for a short rail holiday. The way there only involved two trains in England and Wales, but the journey was positive throughout (although I admit I found Shrewsbury to Chester to be rather boring). I even managed to buy the ticket involving foreign travel (from Dublin to Belfast) on the train, much to my surprise and to the guard's surprise. It turned out later my ticket wasn't valid via Holyhead, but the staff both on board the trains and at Holyhead were very helpful and sorted that out for me quite happily. The journey itself, well we were 5 minutes late at Newport but this was down to the sheer cold and wet rails making for less than favourable conditions. My 175 to Holyhead even arrived 7 minutes early and was pretty much on time throughout the whole journey (I think we left one or two stations one minute late, but that was it). The trains were also very clean and tidy and I managed to find a seat without any problems. So a good journey all in all.

Coming back two days later, I was travelling via Stranraer to come home. No problem finding a seat on any leg of the journey, the trains were all clean and tidy with no issues whatsoever. Slight delays encountered on the way to Kilmarnock, but that was due to a swan on the line (I kid you not, that looked mighty out of place as we passed it), but only 2 minutes. We left Carlisle on the way south 3 minutes late, but we were no more than 5 minutes late anywhere and arrived in Birmingham 4 minutes early. The next leg on XC was early at all stations to Bristol, and the FGW stopper home after was only 1 minute late on arrival, due to large numbers of passengers boarding/alighting. Another good journey, despite my initial concerns before the journey that something was bound to go wrong on my rather long (471+ miles) journey.

Just two examples of good journeys I've made in recent times

 

[Ticket Man]

I commute from abbey wood to st panc using SE and FCC and two weeks ago i managed to get to and from work for the whole week with out a single delay.

That said the commuter trains in the south are still extremely overcrowded during rush hour and about a month back I found myself travelling at 5 am into london for an interview that started at 09:30 to avoid sucking someones arm pit all the way in! :roll: