UK government's infrastructure spending

[swt_passenger]

So to reemphasise the point is not an additional station improvement program but improvements in access to the station made up of inclusion in smart ticketing trial, road improvements and existing NR feasability study.

So you are suggesting that "a further £50 million for a full redevelopment of the railway station at Gatwick Airport" doesn't have its normal meaning?

Then in the Gatwick release: "The airport’s analysis with Network Rail shows that a station with this number of passengers requires a concourse at least double the size"

 

[WatcherZero]

Yes it says that concourse improvements post Thameslink are required however the funding in the NIP isnt for that.

This connectivity will be further improved upon completion of a £53m project to improve platform capacity in early 2014 and with the introduction of the Thameslink franchise later that year.

The National Infrastructure Plan also outlined a number of further measures for surface access at Gatwick, including accelerating a Network Rail study into the Brighton Mainline, incorporating the Gatwick to London route on a planned trial of smart ticketing and including access to Gatwick in the Highways Agency study on local motorways.

..

Jeremy Taylor, Chief Executive of Gatwick Diamond Business, said “This is more great news for the airport and for the Gatwick Diamond area. The station is currently undergoing a £53million refit and we should start to see the benefits of the new Platform Seven in 2014. This money will go some way towards developing further public transport access to the Airport and I look forward to learning more about the plans.”

 

[jon0844]

With the current concern about people taking heavy bags on escalators, they might choose to add more lifts instead.

Lifts at stations should be bigger too. Some are shockingly tiny, and not always because that's all the room there is.

 

[WatcherZero]

Further you can see what Gatwick was asking for in their Rail Study, further station improvements arent part of it however the proposals in the NIP are.

-- A plan to balance benefits for air passengers and commuters achieved when the new Thameslink franchise “acquires” Southern in July 2015.
-- Securing replacement higher quality Gatwick Express rolling stock to improve the passenger experience.
-- Using extra capacity on Southern trains to Victoria and via Thameslink to efficiently cater for peak commuter growth serving Brighton.
-- Retaining a non-stop service on Gatwick Express and maximising the value of investment at Gatwick Airport station.
-- Use of smart ticketing as a tool for making best use of on-train capacity and adding value.
-- An investment plan proposal for 2019-2024 (Control Period 6), mitigating key constraints, including Victoria, East Croydon and Windmill Bridge Junction to provide capacity for future growth.

http://www.gatwickairport.com/Publi..._gatwick/Gatwick Rail Access_Phase1_FINAL.pdf

 

[swt_passenger]

The text in today's autumn statement is:

2.200 Improving transport links to Gatwick Airport – The government will, in response to recommendations made by the independent Airports Commission, take forward a package of measures to improve surface access to Gatwick Airport, comprising:

•• £50 million towards the cost of full redevelopment of the railway station, subject to agreeing satisfactory contributions from Gatwick Airport

•• accelerating the Network Rail study into improvements to the Brighton Mainline

•• a pilot of smart ticketing on Gatwick to London rail links, subject to ongoing commercial negotiations

•• work to explore the feasibility of improving road access to Gatwick on the M23, M25 and local roads

That, in plain English, allocates £50m to the station itself. If the sum was meant to cover all those four paragraphs it would be written completely differently...

 

[hwl]

A plan to balance benefits for air passengers and commuters achieved when the new Thameslink franchise “acquires” Southern in July 2015.

I bet commuters won't like the kind of "balance" the airport is thinking of...

 

[jon0844]

I guess saying that the new combined franchise will see the end of TOC-specific tickets that currently offer lower prices, as well as the axing of Gatwick Express trains that continue beyond the airport south isn't quite as snappy!

 

[tbtc]

So this £50m is coming from the Government?

I could understand Gatwick's "sway" over whether they get a frequent non-stop train to central London if the Airport were the ones paying for all of these infrastructure improvements, but it seems strange for the improvements to all be paid for from general taxation whilst the Airport get to call the shots (?)

:tands back and waits for thread complaining about more money being spent on Gatwick Airport station than the total investment in northern England over the next hundred years::

 

[RichardN]

I bet commuters won't like the kind of "balance" the airport is thinking of...

Lots of misleading statements in that document...

Gatwick Express passengers contribute around 40% more revenue (via premium fares) than commuters. This equates to extra revenue in excess of £27 million per annum, which reduces the subsidy payments and directly contributes to the Government’s objective to reduce rail’s cost to the taxpayer.

That will be per passenger, now compare train for train and the fact that the expresses are mainly carrying air will tip the balance back towards the commuter services.

 

[mr_jrt]

Feasibility study is to look at unlocking E Croydon / Windmill Bridge Jn (BML constraint #1), and a handful of junctions further south. No new tunnels, or even 4 tracking, as it doesn't look like it's needed. Very early stages though.

Would there be scope for segregating everything down to East Croydon by 8-tracking the lines down to it from the junction? I think south of there 6 would be the absolute limit, and that'd probably end up as 4xBML and 2xCaterham lines.

 

[HowardGWR]

What I am gleaning from the various announcements coming out about Gatwick and Heathrow and connections is that the Davies Commission isn't going to come up with anything strategic as a solution, such as a new airport. Just a second runway at GTW (legally possible from 2019) and better rail connections between the two hubs and the other airports.

 

[Bald Rick]

... as well as the axing of Gatwick Express trains that continue beyond the airport south isn't quite as snappy!

it doesn't say or imply that though...
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Would there be scope for segregating everything down to East Croydon by 8-tracking the lines down to it from the junction? I think south of there 6 would be the absolute limit, and that'd probably end up as 4xBML and 2xCaterham lines.

Very early stages. And 8 tracking is not on the cards (notwithstanding the side effect of knocking down a goodish bit of Croydon to make it so).

The capacity constraints are conflicting junctions and platform capacity. So I guess this is where the study will focus, and not just at Croydon. In theory you could get 30 trains per hour Brighton-London if they called only at stations with 2 platforms for each fast line direction.

 

[RichardN]

it doesn't say or imply that though...
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Very early stages. And 8 tracking is not on the cards (notwithstanding the side effect of knocking down a goodish bit of Croydon to make it so).

The capacity constraints are conflicting junctions and platform capacity. So I guess this is where the study will focus, and not just at Croydon. In theory you could get 30 trains per hour Brighton-London if they called only at stations with 2 platforms for each fast line direction.

Clapham junction being an area where this is difficult. If you built a line from the down slow to P16 and installed crossovers between each of the other lines there would be scope for double platforming in the peak direction and adding operational flexibility.

Sent from my KFOT using Tapatalk 2

 

[Surreyman]

'•• £50 million towards the cost of full redevelopment of the railway station, subject to agreeing satisfactory contributions from Gatwick Airport'

My guess is that the existing station, that is the ticket hall above the platforms, adjacent to the South Terminal, is going to be massively expanded, as per the new Reading 'Overbridge'.
I would think that a massive new concourse running north-south with at least 2 new sets of Stairs/Escalators/Lifts serving the north and south ends of the platforms in addition to the existing ones is what is required.
Part of this would be a new very large ticket hall with a massive amount of space for large numbers of passengers with luggage.

All platforms can already take 12 car trains and as far as I am able to judge, with the construction of the new platform 7, there is no room between the A23 and the multi-storey short term car parks, to widen the existing platforms, although extending platform canopies would be an improvement

The problem as far as I can see is passenger volumes and circulation space (or the current lack of it!).

Anyone on this forum with any 'inside info' ??

 

[mr_jrt]

it doesn't say or imply that though...
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Very early stages. And 8 tracking is not on the cards (notwithstanding the side effect of knocking down a goodish bit of Croydon to make it so).

I mainly suggest it due to the new 7th platform (and provision for 8th) at East Croydon. There are currently 5 lines from Windmill Junction to East Croydon, and on the western side of the formation a pair of short sidings with empty alignment north to St. James's Road, and then north of there the point work for the junctions (and associated widening of the formation) start about 300m north. 8 all the way might be pushing things, but 7 seems viable with only the loss of one or two homes near to St James Road, some garden land and light industrial buildings further north.

Actually, looking more closely, north of St. James Road on the eastern side of the lines it's mostly car park and greenery to the junctions, so you could get the additional lines on that side quite easily. South of the road on the eastern side you'd have to buy and demolish 20-odd homes...which wouldn't go down well I suspect.

..but yeah, 7 should be easy using the western side, and slewing the alignment to use more of the eastern space north of St James Road might even get you the full 8 and/or reduce the demolition required at the cost of some curvature (which should matter so close to a major station all trains will be stopping at).

 

[Stats]

The £50m is a contribution to the complete replacement of the concourse and ticket hall.

The letter from the Airports Commission to the Chancellor is here (pdf).

In it the recommendations are:

Recommendation 1: The Government should work with Network Rail and
Gatwick Airport to implement a significant enhancement of the airport station,
with an emphasis upon making the station more accessible to users with
luggage (which should also enhance access for users with disabilities). The
Government should pursue an ambitious (circa £180m) option for enhancing
the station through the construction of a new concourse and ticket hall with
enhanced access to platforms, subject to the airport providing an appropriate
contribution to the costs of the scheme.

Recommendation 2: There is a need to improve the suitability of the Gatwick
Express rolling stock to make it more suitable for airport users, for example by
the provision of additional luggage space. The Government should take
opportunities to enhance it where they exist in the franchising system.

Recommendation 3: The Government should work with train operators to
promote the introduction of paperless ticketing facilities for journeys to and
from Gatwick Airport station.

Recommendation 4: The Government and Network Rail should accelerate
work to produce a detailed plan for the enhancement of the Brighton Main
Line, with a particular emphasis upon enhancing capacity and reliability, so as
to accommodate growth in both airport and commuter traffic. This could focus
on the alleviation of particular pinch points (such as East Croydon).

The Commission also has worked up a cheaper option of below £50m for a modest refurbishment of the platforms and concourse. It however, believes this is not an attractive option, and as Gatwick Airport will be a major beneficiary of the redevelopment they should contribute to the more ambitious scheme.

The Commission also recommends that Gatwick is brought into the Oyster system as soon as possible. Of course Southern's smartcard is already active between Gatwick Airport and Victoria. A point that the Commission seems to have missed.

 

[Bald Rick]

It's a reboot of the 2007 proposals for a new concourse / transport gateway linking the multi storeys and the South terminal. Was done to GRIP3 back then and has been dusted off.

 

[swt_passenger]

You don't get a huge amount of infrastructure work for your money when making improvements and trying to keep an airport and a station fully operational 24/7 do you. Checking the earlier NR press release from 2011 the recent work to add P7, and the various pre-Olympics improvements to the concourse came in at £53m; and that seems to be just enough to keep things going for a few years, less than 10 anyway.

 

[HowardGWR]

You don't get a huge amount of infrastructure work for your money when making improvements and trying to keep an airport and a station fully operational 24/7 do you. Checking the earlier NR press release from 2011 the recent work to add P7, and the various pre-Olympics improvements to the concourse came in at £53m; and that seems to be just enough to keep things going for a few years, less than 10 anyway.

The main problem I find at GTW is getting off the platform up to the airport. The throng of pax often has to queue for the lifts. I don't see how it is so important to have a big concourse, as the airport has loads of facilities anyway. All you want to do is get out of the place and towards the plane as comfortably as possible. On the way back, all you want to do is get down to the trains, those would be best being clearly marked and their platform numbers, on a big display, as you are queueing to get past the UKBA, preferably. The ideal time spent doing this is about 2 minutes, which performance, I have achieved with rolling suitcases - great. In other words, who needs a concourse at GTW. It helps if the train is not on fire too, see other thread.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

It does seem an odd way to spend £50m. While I don't doubt it'll be nice to have, surely there must be many other places in the country where £50m would buy you much more significant improvements (either to capacity, linespeed or to stations)?

 

[Stats]

It does seem an odd way to spend £50m. While I don't doubt it'll be nice to have, surely there must be many other places in the country where £50m would buy you much more significant improvements (either to capacity, linespeed or to stations)?

[RANT]Well it's better than the £30m the Government is spending on a, yet another, absolutely not needed, river crossing in central London, that will also destroy panaromic views of the city from other river crossings. Now THAT is money that could be better spent elsewhere. [/RANT]

 

[yorksrob]

The plan contains some good points such as electrification and capacity enhancements including the Northern hub.

I can see the point of HS2 being in there to increase capacity and connectivity. However, the inclusion of only one missing link (East-West rail) is extremely disappointing. How about connectivity elsewhere ?

 

[DynamicSpirit]

[RANT]Well it's better than the £30m the Government is spending on a, yet another, absolutely not needed, river crossing in central London, that will also destroy panaromic views of the city from other river crossings. Now THAT is money that could be better spent elsewhere. [/RANT]

Is the Government actually going ahead with that? I though that was just an aspiration by Boris Johnson, supported by several borough councils.

 

[Chris125]

The plan contains some good points such as electrification and capacity enhancements including the Northern hub.

I can see the point of HS2 being in there to increase capacity and connectivity. However, the inclusion of only one missing link (East-West rail) is extremely disappointing. How about connectivity elsewhere ?

The investment plan was, at least for rail, essentially a summary of existing projects so it wasn't going to have anything new in it - we already know what's planned for the next 5 year control period.

Chris

 

[Hebden Bridger]

Is the Government actually going ahead with that? I though that was just an aspiration by Boris Johnson, supported by several borough councils.

The bridge if it ever goes ahead is supposedly entirely dependent on third party funding, much like the Thames cable car. I don't think there's ever been government involvement, its a madcap Boris idea.

 

[Kettledrum]

The plan contains some good points such as electrification and capacity enhancements including the Northern hub.

I can see the point of HS2 being in there to increase capacity and connectivity. However, the inclusion of only one missing link (East-West rail) is extremely disappointing. How about connectivity elsewhere ?

really disappointing for Midlands rail users too - with no new rail infrastructure planned, despite plenty of missing links and lots of ideas from Centro in the West Midlands in recent years.

 

[swt_passenger]

really disappointing for Midlands rail users too - with no new rail infrastructure planned, despite plenty of missing links and lots of ideas from Centro in the West Midlands in recent years.

It isn't the means by which new rail infrastructure changes are proposed though. It is an annual report about what has been agreed already, additional proposals will be found in existing places like RUSs, HLOS etc etc as happens anyway...

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

really disappointing for Midlands rail users too - with no new rail infrastructure planned, despite plenty of missing links and lots of ideas from Centro in the West Midlands in recent years.

Bromsgrove electrification. Kenilworth new station. Walsall-Rugeley electrification. All going ahead.
Nuneaton-Coventry-Leamington-Oxford electrification coming soon.
Not to mention New Street rebuilding .

Some quite big schemes are in the pot for CP6 (eg diverting Tamworth services to Moor Street).
Derby-Bristol electrification is some way off yet.

 

[YorkshireBear]

Also the work to the Redditch line? West Midlands is certainly not being excluded. Plus of course the start of HS2!

 

[The Planner]

Some quite big schemes are in the pot for CP6 (eg diverting Tamworth services to Moor Street).
Derby-Bristol electrification is some way off yet.

More chance of the latter than the former....