UK General Election 2024: The Results & Aftermath

[dangie]

No to ID cards from me…

I really have no thoughts regarding compulsory ID Cards, but I can’t understand peoples aversion to having them. I don’t understand the problem?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Harrow East and Hendon have huge Hindu populations, and its clear Hindu voters swung very hard to the Tories in this election. The Tories even gained Leicester East which is the seat with the highest Hindu population of all.

Hendon doesn't have a huge Hindu population. It has a sizeable Jewish population AND a slightly smaller Muslim population. That probably explains why the Workers Party put a candidate up there (and got 1500 votes).

As for Leicester East, there were TWO former Labour MPs - Keith Vaz and Claudia Webbe - both standing and they took 3700 and 5500 votes respectively. That doubtless let the Conservative candidate in.

 

[Thirteen]

Emily Thornberry has issued a statement about not being selected for Cabinet which I was a little surprised although one wonders if she might end up getting a smaller role.

 

[Gloster]

Emily Thornberry has issued a statement about not being selected for Cabinet which I was a little surprised although one wonders if she might end up getting a smaller role.

I think that she has a bit of a reputation of putting her mouth into gear before engaging her brain. It may be that Starmer feels that, however competent she may be, she is liable to divert attention away from the government’s agenda onto her ill-thought comments.

 

[takno]

I really have no thoughts regarding compulsory ID Cards, but I can’t understand peoples aversion to having them. I don’t understand the problem?

Objections are mostly around the loss of privacy. People don't want a situation where you are required to carry an ID card and show it on demand to every nosey passing official or chancing retailer. I already absolutely hate the "show your Clubcard to access normal pricing" model which is taking over shops - imagine if it was a single government ID and you had to show it everywhere.

Equally online it's annoying enough when you have to set up an account or share your Facebook login to get access to so much stuff which doesn't really need to be behind an account. Now imagine if you couldn't set up your own login and instead of Facebook it was your "one true government ID". Given the weakness of data protection in general, your one protection at the moment is the ability to dump and email address and just be forgotten.

Furthermore, what if you lose access to that? Presumably it would be short-term, since you'd pretty much have to get it back, but suddently that isn't just your Facebook, or your email, or your bank, it's all your money, your access to healthcare, possibly your public transport tickets. In short it's your entire life.

In practice the absence of official government ID isn't really preventing much of this, we're just using more-easily-stolen proxies like mobile phone numbers for the task, not properly regulating people who want to use your identity, and allowing inane private tracking like loyalty cards. Dropping ID cards really achieved absolutely nothing.

Meanwhile there is no evidence from Europe that people are genuinely expected to or in practice really do carry their identity cards, and in various countries it's fairly illegal to require government ID for private activities. Furthermore virtually nobody actually restricts urgent healthcare to people who have an ID card to hand. Having an ID card doesn't ensure safety from control, and in practice the perceived safety from not having them actually means we aren't paying attention to the dangers.

 

[Cross City]

Oh the irony. Despite being issued by individual states rather than the federal government driving licences are de-facto id cards in the US.

What's ironic? That's also pretty much the case in the UK, hence my aversion to another form of identification. Id they could roll ID cards, driving licences and passports into one digital apple/android wallet docket or at most a credit card style plastic card then I'd be less bothered.

I really have no thoughts regarding compulsory ID Cards, but I can’t understand peoples aversion to having them. I don’t understand the problem?

I'm not scared about any invasion of privacy or anything like that, the government already know everything about me. I'm against (not vehemently at all, though I am a left wing libertarian at heart but I live in the real world) them because we already have multiple ways of proving identity and the same people who avoid detection now will carry on avoiding detection in a future containing ID cards.

It doesn't solve a problem which doesn't really exist in the first place, all it will do it force people who already have passports and driving licences to have another form of something they already have.

 

[DC1989]

Good speech from Reeves re planning reform. How the tories allowed themselves to cede this ground to Labour is one of the many idiotic things they have done recently

 

[Class 466]

genuinely nice to see adults in charge rather than people constantly partaking in self promotion to dethrone the leader at any given opportunity. I really hope the Conservatives fail to ever recover from this.

 

[AlterEgo]

genuinely nice to see adults in charge rather than people constantly partaking in self promotion to dethrone the leader at any given opportunity.

Give them time.

 

[telstarbox]

Total votes cast for Labour in 2024 election, 9.7 million, total votes cast in 2019 for "unelectable" Labour under Jeremy Corbyn 10.25 million .
Our FPTP system is strange strange strange!
Casting an eye in the direction of France, the electorate embracing the charms of the near/far-right, tactical manoevering see-sawed the electorate to the radical left, the French Govt is quite paralysed.

Labour won on just 34% of votes.
However - the Tories repeatedly pointed out that voting for Reform UK would lead to a Labour 'supermajority' and the same would apply to the Lib Dems who were mostly picking off Tory-held seats. So we can assume that 60% of voters (Labour, Lib Dems and Reform) were happy with this being the outcome.

 

[Thirteen]

I think that she has a bit of a reputation of putting her mouth into gear before engaging her brain. It may be that Starmer feels that, however competent she may be, she is liable to divert attention away from the government’s agenda onto her ill-thought comments.

I'd throw her a bone and encourage her to take on one of the vacant Deputy Speaker roles.

 

[Bikeman78]

Poole won by Labour with a majority of 18, after 3 recounts!

Under what circumstances is a recount deemed necessary?

 

[The exile]

Under what circumstances is a recount deemed necessary?

If any candidate challenges, I believe. Also, as in Inverness &Ross-shire (or whatever the name of the last constituency to declare is), when the number of ballots counted doesn’t match the number issued. Whether a discrepancy of 1 would trigger a recount where there’s a 5-figure majority, I’m not sure, but no doubt someone knows.

In other news, Lord Hendy (of Network Rail) is a transport minister.

 

[simonw]

Under what circumstances is a recount deemed necessary?

https://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/guidance-returning-officers-administering-local-government-elections-england/verification-and-count/count/provisional-results-and-recounts

Rules for recounts are set out here.

You must consider any recount request but by law may refuse if, in your opinion, the request is unreasonable.6 You may, however, consider offering the candidates and agents the opportunity to inspect the bundles of ballot papers as a means of reassuring them that the result is accurate.

 

[JamesT]

If any candidate challenges, I believe. Also, as in Inverness &Ross-shire (or whatever the name of the last constituency to declare is), when the number of ballots counted doesn’t match the number issued. Whether a discrepancy of 1 would trigger a recount where there’s a 5-figure majority, I’m not sure, but no doubt someone knows.

https://www.electoralcommission.org...-count/count/provisional-results-and-recounts says when the candidate or their agent asks. Though the returning officer can refuse if they think it's unreasonable, which presumably a 5-figure majority would be considered such.

 

[Busaholic]

I wonder who Sunak will back for the leadership? Kemi Badenoch? It won't be Suella I'm sure

I'd imagine he'll stay out of it.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Jul 2024 ==

I don't think either of those are even issued any more, and if I recall correctly the NI cards that used to be issued actually stated on the card that they are not proof of identity.

In reality, nothing is proof of identity, and won't be until the day arrives when DNA samples are taken at birth and connected in some way with birth certificates i.e. there is a national DNA base. For the avoidance of doubt, I'm in no way in favour of this and hope it never happens. O the other hand, I'm 99% certain it will be adopted, country by country, in due course, if individual countries exist by then!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Jul 2024 ==

In other news, Lord Hendy (of Network Rail) is a transport minister.

Excellent: his father Jack was a long-standing Labour councillor in West Cornwall, and a railway fan too!

 

[tommy2215]

Hendon doesn't have a huge Hindu population. It has a sizeable Jewish population AND a slightly smaller Muslim population. That probably explains why the Workers Party put a candidate up there (and got 1500 votes).

As for Leicester East, there were TWO former Labour MPs - Keith Vaz and Claudia Webbe - both standing and they took 3700 and 5500 votes respectively. That doubtless let the Conservative candidate in.

According to the latest official statistics in the HoC library, yes Hendon does. Not as big as Harrow East, but still significant. People did not vote for Webbe and Vaz simply because Leicester East voters were spoilt for choice, just look at how other Labour candidates in safe Labour areas with high Hindu or Muslim populations did, even in ones Labour held on to.

 

[Bikeman78]

https://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/guidance-returning-officers-administering-local-government-elections-england/verification-and-count/count/provisional-results-and-recounts

Rules for recounts are set out here.

You must consider any recount request but by law may refuse if, in your opinion, the request is unreasonable.6 You may, however, consider offering the candidates and agents the opportunity to inspect the bundles of ballot papers as a means of reassuring them that the result is accurate.

If any candidate challenges, I believe. Also, as in Inverness &Ross-shire (or whatever the name of the last constituency to declare is), when the number of ballots counted doesn’t match the number issued. Whether a discrepancy of 1 would trigger a recount where there’s a 5-figure majority, I’m not sure, but no doubt someone knows.

In other news, Lord Hendy (of Network Rail) is a transport minister.

Thanks both. I can imagine it must be easy to miscount when the votes are in the tens of thousands.

 

[Cloud Strife]

I really have no thoughts regarding compulsory ID Cards, but I can’t understand peoples aversion to having them. I don’t understand the problem?

I can say that it makes life a hell of a lot easier for many things. My ID card is on my phone, I don't have to carry a physical card anywhere. If someone wants to verify my identity, they can, and likewise I can verify theirs by using the app that also contains a lot of other things like my driving licence. Sooner rather than later, these secure wallet systems will also be accepted cross-EU, so there'll be no reason whatsoever to carry physical documents.

But the big one is that identity theft is almost completely unknown here because of the ID card system. With the way that everything is designed, you can apply for a loan online, verify your identity using your phone and voila, yet because it relies on a multiple layers of authentication, it's impossible to get through as a third party.

The UK in comparison has seemingly endless weird systems for proving your identity when a single ID card would suffice. To give an idea: I used my ID card a couple of weeks ago to sign my company accounts. I downloaded the accounts to my phone, electronically signed them using a specific app, verified my identity using my biometric fingerprint, PIN number and my ID card, and sent the accounts back to my accountant. I didn't need a card reader, I didn't need anything complicated, it took all of two minutes, and yet anyone checking these accounts online can know that it was me that signed them for sure.

Unfortunately, the UK has created a Byzantine monster of a system, when in fact a simple ID card system would allow for so many possibilities. Take the current system of requiring landlords to check if someone is legally in the UK. Why not just have a simple system where anyone can take a biometric ID card and check the person on their phone? I can do this in PL, and it would be simple to extend that to a system that says "this person is legally resident in the UK" or "this person holds pre-settled status and can work" or whatever.

Even on a smaller level, it would be far easier to simply require ID cards to purchase age-restricted products.

 

[AlterEgo]

I can say that it makes life a hell of a lot easier for many things. My ID card is on my phone, I don't have to carry a physical card anywhere. If someone wants to verify my identity, they can, and likewise I can verify theirs by using the app that also contains a lot of other things like my driving licence. Sooner rather than later, these secure wallet systems will also be accepted cross-EU, so there'll be no reason whatsoever to carry physical documents.

But the big one is that identity theft is almost completely unknown here because of the ID card system. With the way that everything is designed, you can apply for a loan online, verify your identity using your phone and voila, yet because it relies on a multiple layers of authentication, it's impossible to get through as a third party.

The UK in comparison has seemingly endless weird systems for proving your identity when a single ID card would suffice. To give an idea: I used my ID card a couple of weeks ago to sign my company accounts. I downloaded the accounts to my phone, electronically signed them using a specific app, verified my identity using my biometric fingerprint, PIN number and my ID card, and sent the accounts back to my accountant. I didn't need a card reader, I didn't need anything complicated, it took all of two minutes, and yet anyone checking these accounts online can know that it was me that signed them for sure.

Unfortunately, the UK has created a Byzantine monster of a system, when in fact a simple ID card system would allow for so many possibilities. Take the current system of requiring landlords to check if someone is legally in the UK. Why not just have a simple system where anyone can take a biometric ID card and check the person on their phone? I can do this in PL, and it would be simple to extend that to a system that says "this person is legally resident in the UK" or "this person holds pre-settled status and can work" or whatever.

Even on a smaller level, it would be far easier to simply require ID cards to purchase age-restricted products.

I'm afraid we have brain worms when we come to ID cards in this country. People think they are totalitairan, despite former authoritarian regimes with a cultural memory of hardline oppression (Germany, Poland, are two) adopting ID cards.

This is such a no-brainer of an idea which is continuously opposed on the most spurious grounds it reflects badly on British political discourse.

 

[dgl]

But they only just did as you say, the vote share for Labour was drastically down:
Smethwick -9%
Edgbaston -8%
Ladywood -40.5%
Hodge Hill & Solihull N -28.7%
Yardley -26.9% (Jess Phillips)
Perry Barr -33.9% (lost to Independent)

It was only because of the enormous Labour majorities in the past that this decline in vote share didn't mean more lost seats.
==========

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 5 Jul 2024 ==

Poole won by Labour with a majority of 18, after 3 recounts!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 5 Jul 2024 ==

Sinn Fein remain with 7 seats but 4.2% increase in vote share to 27%, the largest share of any party in Northern Ireland.

And the fun bit about Poole was they had to get everyone out of the room they were using for the press as there was a life drawing class booked.

 

[AndyPJG]

If any candidate challenges, I believe. Also, as in Inverness &Ross-shire (or whatever the name of the last constituency to declare is), when the number of ballots counted doesn’t match the number issued. Whether a discrepancy of 1 would trigger a recount where there’s a 5-figure majority, I’m not sure, but no doubt someone knows.

In other news, Lord Hendy (of Network Rail) is a transport minister.

In the past, recounts have been requested when it affects a candidate losing their deposit. (5% of the electoral roll)

 

[Busaholic]

In the past, recounts have been requested when it affects a candidate losing their deposit. (5% of the electoral roll)

No, 5% of votes cast. Still applies.

 

[Snow1964]

David Cameron has resigned, not taking Shadow Foreign Secretary

The shadow cabinet has been announced
Helen Wateley is Shadow Transport Minister

Full list of Opposition Shadow Ministers

• Shadow Deputy Leader of the Opposition and Shadow Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster: Oliver Dowden
• Shadow Chancellor of the Exchequer: Jeremy Hunt
• Shadow Secretary of State for Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Affairs: Andrew Mitchell
• Shadow Home Secretary: James Cleverly
• Shadow Secretary of State for Defence: James Cartlidge
• Shadow Secretary of State for Justice: Ed Argar
• Shadow Secretary of State for Science, Innovation and Technology: Andrew Griffith
• Shadow Health and Social Care Secretary: Victoria Atkins
• Shadow Secretary of State for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities: Kemi Badenoch
• Shadow Secretary of State for the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs: Steve Barclay
• Shadow Leader of the House of Commons: Chris Philp
• Shadow Leader of the House of Lords: Lord True
• Shadow Secretary of State for Business and Trade: Kevin Hollinrake
• Shadow Secretary of State for Energy Security and Net Zero: Claire Coutinho
• Shadow Secretary of State for Work and Pensions: Mel Stride
• Shadow Secretary of State for Education: Damian Hinds
• Shadow Secretary of State for Transport: Helen Whately
• Shadow Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport: Julia Lopez
• Shadow Attorney General: Jeremy Wright
• Shadow Secretary of State for Northern Ireland: Alex Burghart
• Shadow Secretary of State for Scotland: John Lamont
• Shadow Secretary of State for Wales: Lord Davies of Gower
• Opposition Chief Whip: Stuart Andrew
• Shadow Chief Secretary to the Treasury: Laura Trott
• Shadow Paymaster General: John Glen
• Shadow Security Minister: Tom Tugendhat
• Shadow Veterans Minister: Andrew Bowie
• Shadow Women and Equalities: Mims Davies

UK politics live: Lord Cameron resigns as Rishi Sunak announces interim shadow cabinet

David Cameron and Richard Holden resign as Rishi Sunak announces interim shadow cabinet.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Cloud Strife]

I'm afraid we have brain worms when we come to ID cards in this country. People think they are totalitairan, despite former authoritarian regimes with a cultural memory of hardline oppression (Germany, Poland, are two) adopting ID cards.

Yes, it really doesn't make much sense at all. I don't feel oppressed by having an ID card, it's not obligatory to carry it, and it makes life endlessly easier when you don't have nonsense like "produce two recent utility bills and a form of photo ID". I produce my ID card and that's it, job done.

One of the more absurd things about Europe right now is that I can travel into the vast majority of countries with just my ID card alone. The exceptions? The UK, Belarus, Russia and Ukraine. Even the tinpot parastates like the TRNC and Transnistria are quite happy to accept my ID card in lieu of a passport.

 

[calopez]

Yes, it really doesn't make much sense at all. I don't feel oppressed by having an ID card, it's not obligatory to carry it, and it makes life endlessly easier when you don't have nonsense like "produce two recent utility bills and a form of photo ID". I produce my ID card and that's it, job done.

One of the more absurd things about Europe right now is that I can travel into the vast majority of countries with just my ID card alone. The exceptions? The UK, Belarus, Russia and Ukraine. Even the tinpot parastates like the TRNC and Transnistria are quite happy to accept my ID card in lieu of a passport.

If, when they were proposed for the UK, ID cards had been promoted as a free alternative to passports - at least as far as travel to Europe was concerned - I'm sure there would have been a lot less opposition to them.

Of course, that benefit of ID cards probably wouldn't be available to us now.

 

[takno]

If, when they were proposed for the UK, ID cards had been promoted as a free alternative to passports - at least as far as travel to Europe was concerned - I'm sure there would have been a lot less opposition to them.

Of course, that benefit of ID cards probably wouldn't be available to us now.

If they'd been free rather than costing 30 quid, and didn't require an in-person appointment to collect excessive biometrics then they'd have been more popular.

 

[AlterEgo]

If they'd been free rather than costing 30 quid, and didn't require an in-person appointment to collect excessive biometrics then they'd have been more popular.

There should be no need for fingerprints on an ID card. There is no requirement for passports.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Ah, but the Conservatives resurfaced a road near me and did loads of line painting in the area in the last couple of weeks for a desperate attempt for more votes

On the other hand, I haven't suffered any delays or cancellations on the Elizabeth line since the Labour Government was elected Clearly Labour Government works

 

[nw1]

Yes, it really doesn't make much sense at all. I don't feel oppressed by having an ID card, it's not obligatory to carry it, and it makes life endlessly easier when you don't have nonsense like "produce two recent utility bills and a form of photo ID". I produce my ID card and that's it, job done.

One of the more absurd things about Europe right now is that I can travel into the vast majority of countries with just my ID card alone. The exceptions? The UK, Belarus, Russia and Ukraine. Even the tinpot parastates like the TRNC and Transnistria are quite happy to accept my ID card in lieu of a passport.

And that presumably includes non-EU/Schengen countries like Albania, Serbia and Montenegro, not just other EU/Schengen countries.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 Jul 2024 ==

David Cameron has resigned, not taking Shadow Foreign Secretary

The Mitch taking his place. A somewhat controversial character, perhaps.