UK General Election 2024: The Results & Aftermath

[birchesgreen]

I doubt many of them will know who she is. She's also a dire public speaker, so I imagine she will be counterproductive to them, despite having more time on her hands now to do something like that.

Americans, especially right wing ones, hate a loser. Her grift is over.

 

[MP33]

For Liz Truss to get anywhere in America, she will have to have a selling point, and she does not have one.

Some years ago, John Gummer MP visited Austin, Texas on behalf of a former constituent with dual nationality, who was on death row. He was described as an advisor to Margaret Thatcher, although it did not mean much and was some years earlier. To Republicans, the mention of Margaret Thatcher, gets them going.

 

[The Ham]

Blair is just opening the Overton Window. Much of the Late-Blair period was spoiled by war and the creation of enormous swathes of legislation for petty offences. But on ID cards he has it right. One of the largest obstacles to good governance in this country is that we haven’t a clue how many people are actually here. Some estimates suggest we have as many as 5-10 million more people here than the census suggests. ID cards would flush that issue out and make interacting with the state vastly easier.

ID cards may not be popular, however being able to digitally store a drivers licence would be fairly popular - just look at the numbers using Apple Pay and Google Wallet so they only have to carry their phone for most tasks.

Yes you'd have issues over flat batteries and security, however I suspect that they would be limited issue.

It's pretty unlikely that they have. Ten people on the electoral roll from the constituency must sign nomination papers for candidates to be MP, which election officials verify. Forging the signatures or making up a candidate if detected would become a large news story with such impact on support it's not worth risking. Several constituencies didn't have Reform candidates, at a guess due to things like issues with proposed candidate, nomination forms or not being able to submit new forms if needed to be redone for new candidates or to correct mistakes.

Glasgow North the Reform candidate lived in England so imagine they didn't go to Glasgow much if at all. Often "paper candidates" would prefer a lower profile for a whole host of reasons; whether not a good public speaker for hustings, don't want the abuse that sadly so many candidates get these days, a picture would show clearly 80+ and unlikely to do the job or even aren't that interested in politics but are the partner/family member of someone who is and agreed to be a paper candidate for them. In some ways an active paper candidate isn't helpful, at best they are campaigning somewhere other than most useful and at worst they make national news from doing something controversial or stupid.

Indeed, I was mostly highlighting something which has been appearing on social media.

 

[jfollows]

ID cards may not be popular, however being able to digitally store a drivers licence would be fairly popular - just look at the numbers using Apple Pay and Google Wallet so they only have to carry their phone for most tasks.

ID cards would rapidly become a toxic debate and divert attention, focus and interest away from other things.
I don't want to re-open a debate here about their merits, but there are people in favour and those who are vehemently against, and that fact that some prominent former politicians have shifted their opinion in recent years doesn't necessarily reflect a change in the national mood.

Best left well alone for now.

What was interesting yesterday was that the business secretary (Jonathan Reynolds) was vague when initially asked a question about them. Wiser minds, including Yvette Cooper, put him straight - "we're not going there" essentially.

 

[Magdalia]

Blair is just opening the Overton Window. Much of the Late-Blair period was spoiled by war and the creation of enormous swathes of legislation for petty offences. But on ID cards he has it right. One of the largest obstacles to good governance in this country is that we haven’t a clue how many people are actually here. Some estimates suggest we have as many as 5-10 million more people here than the census suggests. ID cards would flush that issue out and make interacting with the state vastly easier.

ID cards may not be popular, however being able to digitally store a drivers licence would be fairly popular - just look at the numbers using Apple Pay and Google Wallet so they only have to carry their phone for most tasks.

ID cards would rapidly become a toxic debate and divert attention, focus and interest away from other things.
I don't want to re-open a debate here about their merits, but there are people in favour and those who are vehemently against, and that fact that some prominent former politicians have shifted their opinion in recent years doesn't necessarily reflect a change in the national mood.

I don't hold a passport or a driving licence. In my experience these are already de facto ID cards in large parts of everyday life, voting in elections being a good recent example. Nobody ever voted for that.

ID cards are not needed to estimate the UK population. The Census gives a very good estimate. The ONS don't just add up what is on the census forms, there is thorough cross checking against other sources, and the ONS has access to lots of those. The obstacle to good governance is the government not making good use of the data that they already have.

 

[JamesT]

I don't hold a passport or a driving licence. In my experience these are already de facto ID cards in large parts of everyday life, voting in elections being a good recent example. Nobody ever voted for that.

Voter ID was in the 2019 Conservative manifesto, so actually people did vote for it. (Inasmuch as anything in the winning party’s manifesto is)

 

[nw1]

I wonder who Sunak will back for the leadership? Kemi Badenoch? It won't be Suella I'm sure

I'm not sure Sunak is "really" that right wing, despite the tendency of his government; rather, he was unable to stand up to the right. He has less reason to fear them now, so I'd expect him to support a Hunt or Tugendhat character.

 

[Magdalia]

Voter ID was in the 2019 Conservative manifesto, so actually people did vote for it. (Inasmuch as anything in the winning party’s manifesto is)

Fair point. I didn't choose a very good example.

 

[birchesgreen]

If Labour want to they could call for a re-run of the election in Badenoch's constituency due to the lost postal votes being greater than her majority. If they did so she would no longer be an MP and thus ineligable for the Tory leadership contest if they went for that now. I suspect they won't bother though.

 

[Irascible]

Whats more interesting with Reform are these "phantom candidates", who don't seem to have any online presence (or any background) at all.

This is a very strange story, and smells of social media hearts & minds waffle. If there *is* something in it there's been a rather serious case of fraud, and I suspect that'd be Reform done & someone's going to prison.

Blair is just opening the Overton Window. Much of the Late-Blair period was spoiled by war and the creation of enormous swathes of legislation for petty offences. But on ID cards he has it right. One of the largest obstacles to good governance in this country is that we haven’t a clue how many people are actually here. Some estimates suggest we have as many as 5-10 million more people here than the census suggests. ID cards would flush that issue out and make interacting with the state vastly easier.

Starmer has already said no. NI card or your NHS card sounds like an ID document already anyway, they're not optional like passports or driver's licenses.

 

[AlterEgo]

Starmer has already said no. NI card or your NHS card sounds like an ID document already anyway, they're not optional like passports or driver's licenses.

I don't have either of these, and neither has a photo, so I'm not sure how this can possibly be the case.

 

[dosxuk]

If it wasnt for covid I think the tories would still be in government now, probably with a much reduced majority. Boris Johnson would still be PM.

I wouldn't be so sure about that - Boris didn't get booted out because of Covid (or Downing Street becoming party central). He got booted out over the abysmal record of behaviour he was presiding over - in particular the whole Chris Pincher affair, which not only was he tightly linked to, but he also threw several members of his cabinet under the bus when the truth started coming out.

I suspect there will be a long-term wholesale attempt to redefine Boris' tenure as hampered by external forces, and in particular a "biased" committee investigating the partygate affair, but in reality his downfall was actually entirely his own fault - caused by his own lies catching up to him and his own party deciding enough was enough.

 

[RT4038]

I wouldn't be so sure about that - Boris didn't get booted out because of Covid (or Downing Street becoming party central). He got booted out over the abysmal record of behaviour he was presiding over - in particular the whole Chris Pincher affair, which not only was he tightly linked to, but he also threw several members of his cabinet under the bus when the truth started coming out.

I suspect there will be a long-term wholesale attempt to redefine Boris' tenure as hampered by external forces, and in particular a "biased" committee investigating the partygate affair, but in reality his downfall was actually entirely his own fault - caused by his own lies catching up to him and his own party deciding enough was enough.

Well yes, but if Covid hadn't occurred then Partygate wouldn't have happened. (Something else might have, but that is conjecture).

 

[Dent]

NI card or your NHS card sounds like an ID document already anyway, they're not optional like passports or driver's licenses.

I don't think either of those are even issued any more, and if I recall correctly the NI cards that used to be issued actually stated on the card that they are not proof of identity.

 

[AndyPJG]

Total votes cast for Labour in 2024 election, 9.7 million, total votes cast in 2019 for "unelectable" Labour under Jeremy Corbyn 10.25 million .
Our FPTP system is strange strange strange!
Casting an eye in the direction of France, the electorate embracing the charms of the near/far-right, tactical manoevering see-sawed the electorate to the radical left, the French Govt is quite paralysed.

Significantly lower turnout in 2024 though.

 

[Snow1964]

Official figures for elected MPs have now been released

300 (46.1%) are existing MPs re-elected
15 (2.3%) former MPs returning (but not MPs in May 2024)
335 (51.5%) are completely new MPs

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-10009/

 

[Cross City]

No to ID cards from me, yes to digital driving licences. I've seen them in the US and it's very good idea IMO.

Surprised digital passports aren't a thing yet either. They have to be more secure than a little pocketbook.

 

[cactustwirly]

I don't think either of those are even issued any more, and if I recall correctly the NI cards that used to be issued actually stated on the card that they are not proof of identity.

NI is just a letter with the number on it

 

[dosxuk]

Well yes, but if Covid hadn't occurred then Partygate wouldn't have happened. (Something else might have, but that is conjecture).

The whole Chris Pincher saga was unrelated to covid, and as I said, that is what got Boris out of Number 10.

Covid / Partygate is irrelevant to Boris' departure.

 

[Spamcan81]

This is a very strange story, and smells of social media hearts & minds waffle. If there *is* something in it there's been a rather serious case of fraud, and I suspect that'd be Reform done & someone's going to prison.



Starmer has already said no. NI card or your NHS card sounds like an ID document already anyway, they're not optional like passports or driver's licenses.

Some of us old folk have neither.

 

[Gloster]

Covid / Partygate is irrelevant to Boris' departure.

Well, yes and no. It wasn’t the reason he departed or even directly part of the reason, but it lowered him even further in the esteem of many. I am quite sure that many of the public who had supported or tolerated him changed their opinion once once Partygate became known. As a result many MPs felt that he was now damaged goods and lost confidence in his ability to win the next election, so he had to go if they were to have a chance of keeping their seats.

 

[Irascible]

I don't think either of those are even issued any more, and if I recall correctly the NI cards that used to be issued actually stated on the card that they are not proof of identity.

NI cards certainly haven't been valid as ID ( mine makes no mention of not being valid but then it also references the DHSS ) but NI numbers are unique identifiers everyone has, which is nearly all the work done for an ID card already. Biometric data on the card & it's done.

If people are here unregistered & illegally then no id card is going to help unless we turn into a complete police state with checkpoints everywhere...

 

[AlterEgo]

NI cards certainly haven't been valid as ID ( mine makes no mention of not being valid but then it also references the DHSS ) but NI numbers are unique identifiers everyone has

Indeed.

which is nearly all the work done for an ID card already. Biometric data on the card & it's done.

And a photo.

If people are here unregistered & illegally then no id card is going to help unless we turn into a complete police state with checkpoints everywhere...

Well, they will help a little, if having ID becomes a requirement to access basic services.

That is why BRPs have been issued in the past. Many immigrants already have a de facto mandatory ID card which helps them interact with the UK Government and its agencies. The government should also conduct exit checks at the border, but successive administrations have dismissed this as "uniquely too hard" for no good reason.

 

[takno]

Total votes cast for Labour in 2024 election, 9.7 million, total votes cast in 2019 for "unelectable" Labour under Jeremy Corbyn 10.25 million .
Our FPTP system is strange strange strange!
Casting an eye in the direction of France, the electorate embracing the charms of the near/far-right, tactical manoevering see-sawed the electorate to the radical left, the French Govt is quite paralysed.

The radical left are unavoidably a part of the left coalition. There's no evidence that Melenchon was a driver of popularity, and indeed some quite good evidence that he may have put off nearly as many votes from the coalition as he gained. As ever, the problem is having a FPTP-style system which prevents people from expressing how they really feel.

In terms of total votes cast for Labour, what made Corbyn unelectable was the number of voters he drove to actively vote against him. Starmer's don't-scare-the-horses approach was never going to win a national groundswell of popular support, but at the same time there weren't really crowds of people lining up to oppose him either.

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

No to ID cards from me, yes to digital driving licences. I've seen them in the US and it's very good idea IMO.

Oh the irony. Despite being issued by individual states rather than the federal government driving licences are de-facto id cards in the US.

 

[takno]

NI cards certainly haven't been valid as ID ( mine makes no mention of not being valid but then it also references the DHSS ) but NI numbers are unique identifiers everyone has, which is nearly all the work done for an ID card already. Biometric data on the card & it's done.

If people are here unregistered & illegally then no id card is going to help unless we turn into a complete police state with checkpoints everywhere...

NI numbers are moderately unique identifiers which most living people have, and not all that many people share. They have some pretty severe issues with duplication (both people sharing them, and individuals being assigned multiple numbers), impersonation, dead people still having them, and people not being able to get one, for example because they aren't entitled to work. They are likely to be the nearest thing we have to a personal identifier, but just blindly using them as they stand would devastate the lives of a small but significant chunk of the population.

I think the problem since 2010 is that we have effectively introduced mandatory ID, but without the cards and with dependence on numbering systems which variously don't work. If we had just gone for ID cards we would ironically probably be better off, but perhaps only slightly.

 

[AlterEgo]

I think the problem since 2010 is that we have effectively introduced mandatory ID, but without the cards and with dependence on numbering systems which variously don't work. If we had just gone for ID cards we would ironically probably be better off, but perhaps only slightly.

This exemplifies part of the problem quite neatly.

 

[dangie]

Just four days into a new Labour government and they’re resurfacing the road past our house already

 

[takno]

This exemplifies part of the problem quite neatly.

I think the problem is that ID Cards were unpopular and made an easy target for Cameron. I think even I voted LibDem because I was angry about them. Apart from some performative card-shredding the resulting government then did absolutely nothing to oppose the drift in that direction, and just dragged us through a lot of worse things.

I'm no longer opposed to ID cards, but I'm damned if it's a cause I want to waste another Labour Government on. Let's kick that down the road until it's no longer a political football, or just let the Tories do it next time they are in power.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Jul 2024 ==

Just four days into a new Labour government and they’re resurfacing the road past our house already

They were even more efficient round our way - just the prospect of a Labour government made them resurface them last year.

 

[Vexed]

Just four days into a new Labour government and they’re resurfacing the road past our house already

Ah, but the Conservatives resurfaced a road near me and did loads of line painting in the area in the last couple of weeks for a desperate attempt for more votes