UK Freight Trains

[Harbon 1]

Saw a Biomass train at Edge Hill last week. Had two 66's on the front. The coal train in front had one 66. This happened two days on the trot. Anyone think of a reason the Biomass train had two up front both times?

Is this not something to do with the biomass weighing so much less than coal that the trains have to be so much longer for it to be economically viable or something along those lines?

 

[fowler9]

Is this not something to do with the biomass weighing so much less than coal that the trains have to be so much longer for it to be economically viable or something along those lines?

I'm not sure, the trains certainly looked similar lengths. They were parked one behind the other although I didn't count the wagons. When I went past today there was a coal train parked in the same spot as the Biomass one and the loco was at the same spot as the previous 2 and there is no space at the tail end for more wagons to be hidden.

 

[Freightmaster]

Saw a Biomass train at Edge Hill last week. Had two 66's on the front. The coal train in front had one 66. This happened two days on the trot. Anyone think of a reason the Biomass train had two up front both times?

Those were special trial workings to Drax - the reason for double heading
was presumably due to the Pennine gradients!


MARK

 

[Photohunter71]

If we're going to have more biomass,then the 66's and more will be hauling them round the clock! It takes 4 rail biomass hoppers to burn the equivalent of 1 rail hopper of coal, good for more traction usage! Hence why GBRf odered the last of the 66's.

 

[#1 driver]

2 to 1 is the ratio we are being told .

 

[Teaboy1]

Better get used to that 'Ying-Ying-Ying' noise for starters.
Never seen the 66 struggle around Doncaster chiefly because its nearly all flat!
Agreed a 'full' train load of Bio is not same as full load of coal. Usually in winter I note that the HAA's are never struck full likely due to wet coal being more dense than dry coal. Get a full dry load stood out in the rain for 12 hours, I sure it gets much heavier.
Bio mass trucks have top doors fitted to keep rain out, wet wood dont flow like dry wood in hoppers and bunkers ... and it dont burn as quickly!!

http://www.railjournal.com/index.php/rolling-stock/british-biomass-wagon-pushes-the-limits.html

 

[#1 driver]

Haa ?

 

[8A Rail]

Saw a Biomass train at Edge Hill last week. Had two 66's on the front. The coal train in front had one 66. This happened two days on the trot. Anyone think of a reason the Biomass train had two up front both times?

I am assuming it was this you noted? The two GBRf Class 66's were probably 66716 and 66736 on the Tyne Dock - Tuebrook Sdgs - Drax PS "Trial" Biomass Hoppers which happened over 3 days beginning 16 April 2014. For reference they were hauling 27 hoppers hence two Class 66's.

Likewise if you noted a DBS Class 66 on a Coal train then probably only consisted of 19 hoppers as that is the standard load for a Class 66 out of the docks. The DBS - FFPS coal sets consist of 23 HHA hoppers and Class 60's are required when they are fully loaded (2100 tonnes). A Class 66 can hauled one of those sets but you will find that 4 hoppers will be empty when leaving the docks.

I have known a Class 66 (FLHH or DBS) to haul 21 loaded hoppers from the docks but they have struggled as you must bear in mind they are starting from a dead start and attacking a 1 mile 1in60 reverse curve climb upto Bootle Junction. If the conditions are not right they will grind to an almost halt!! Likewise, I have seen especially FLHH Class 66/5's struggled up the Whiston incline on a loaded coal set which is approx two miles on a 1 in 100 climb with the Class 66 screaming like hell to maintain any form of movement!

This is why DBS use Class 60's on the coal trains out of docks with FLHH preferring to use Class 70's on similar trains (19/21 hoppers). The GBRF Biomass trains are lighter loads so a Class 66 is sufficient. HTH.

(As an afterthought - DBS trialed the Class 59's on the LBT coal trains and they did not fare any better than the Class 66's - basically they could not compete with the Class 60's. The 59's used on the trains in that short period were unreliable and really not suitable in hauling the trains from a dead start, some drivers could not wait to see the back of them!! As a guide and going back further - when we had the old HAA wagons, a Class 60 could take 45 loaded HAA's (2200 tonnes), so could four Class 20's, two Class 56's or 66's but when it was a single Class 56 or 66, it was generally a maximum of 35 HAA's).

 

[Teaboy1]

Opps .... typo .... HHA [Heavy Hopper Articulated] ??

 

[#1 driver]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merry-go-round_train

may be of some use to ya .

 

[GB]

Opps .... typo .... HHA [Heavy Hopper Articulated] ??

The 3 letter wagon prefix have specific meanings rather than being purely acronyms...and if IIRC....

1st letter is the general type of wagon grouping.
2nd letter is a more detailed description of the wagon type/owner
3rd letter is the type of brake used.

So in this case, the first H does mean its a hopper wagon, the second H indicates the model/type/version of that wagon and the A means its braking system is of the automatic kind.

...or something along those lines.

 

[talltim]

They are actually 4 character codes, but I've never worked out how the little used 4th character works

 

[GB]

I think the 4th character further differentiates between different versions of the same model of wagon. For example, FEA-A, FEA,-B, FEA-C, and FEA-S are all bogie container flat wagons but each has slight differences between them but like you I don't know how they decide what letter to use. Except for S, which means single when referring to the above. XXX-S on other types of wagons might mean something totally different.

 

[Beveridges]

(As an afterthought - DBS trialed the Class 59's on the LBT coal trains and they did not fare any better than the Class 66's - basically they could not compete with the Class 60's. The 59's used on the trains in that short period were unreliable and really not suitable in hauling the trains from a dead start,

This just goes to show how the Class 60 has more pulling power than any other diesel locomotive built before the class 70. Even the 59 cannot quite compete with the 60 when it comes to pulling power. Those Mendip stone trains may be extremely heavy but the routes are relatively flat so less demanding than the stuff that 60s do, they get nothing like that 1 in 60 out of the Docks!

 

[DownSouth]

I think the 4th character further differentiates between different versions of the same model of wagon. For example, FEA-A, FEA,-B, FEA-C, and FEA-S are all bogie container flat wagons but each has slight differences between them but like you I don't know how they decide what letter to use. Except for S, which means single when referring to the above. XXX-S on other types of wagons might mean something totally different.

Many types of freight wagon can come in 'packs' of permanently coupled wagons which might share one set of equipment across the pack (e.g. an ECP controller, or discharge door equipment) or have non-standard couplings within the pack.

In the case of the FEA intermodal wagons other than the S and D variants, they are a 2-pack configuration with a bar coupling for the inner ends, with the internal coupling at the lower container platform height instead of the standard coupling height - the A/B/C variants would be for minor variations or even just different operator codes. The FSA wagons are similar with one end the standard height and the other end lower, but they are not permanently coupled and can have FTA wagons (lower at both ends) inserted between them.

This isn't an issue in the UK yet (but would be useful for improving freight braking performance) but wagons with ECP always come in packs to reduce the number of ECP controllers and data cable connections required. Australia's heaviest mainline trains (15,000 tonnes, 1800m long, 2x 3300kW locos at each end) run 80x 2-pack iron ore hoppers, with each 2-pack sharing one ECP controller and one set of the air-operated (controlled on the same data cables) bottom discharge doors. Intermodal wagons with ECP generally come in 5-packs, and there are also some pre-ECP intermodal 5-pack wagons using a Jacobs Bogie at the inner end like TGV coaches have.

All of the PHYH, PHEH and CQFY wagons owned or operated by Freightliner Australia are either 4-pack coal hoppers or 5-pack intermodal wagons which carry cotton in containers from northern NSW - see at http://www.freightliner.co.uk/en/fleet/wagons/?page_nr=1

 

[Teaboy1]

We digress .... typo ..... simple error.
Do let us know how you get on at panel stage.

 

[fowler9]

Many thanks for the info folks. I am interested in such things and rely on people such as yourselves who are in the know so to say.

 

[Topgun333]

By what route does the trial biomass train from Liverpool to Drax take?

 

[8A Rail]

By what route does the trial biomass train from Liverpool to Drax take?

Tyne Dock - York - L&Y Todmorden - Stockport - Northwich CLC - WBQ (WCML) - L&M line - Tuebrook Sdgs (Liverpool) - L&M line - WBQ (WCML) - Northwich (CLC) - Stockport - L&Y Todmorden - Wakefield - Drax PS. HTH.