UK face coverings discussion

[VauxhallandI]

If you do go and speak to a colleague my understanding is that they will direct you to the shelf where you can buy a pack for a fiver

I’m afraid I’ve no idea what you are talking about

 

[island]

And that's the rub. If the government says face coverings are now optional, will the stigma now be on people who don't wear a face covering on public transport?

Alternatively, will the transport companies say “to maintain public confidence, face coverings will remain mandatory on our services”?

 

[yorkie]

I open the bidding with this paper from the Royal Society and British Academy https://royalsociety.org/-/media/po...a=en-GB&hash=A22A87CB28F7D6AD9BD93BBCBFC2BB24
which states "Cloth face masks and coverings for the general public are effective in improving: i) source protection, i.e., reduced virus transmission from the wearer when they are of optimal material and construction and fitted correctly; and ii) wearer protection, i.e., reduced rate of infection of those who wear them".

It also says:

We also note that although we report cloth face coverings to be effective, the meta-analysis was in a health care setting and the fabric tested within a laboratory, but evidence was supplemented from observational studies

Now I've seen how school children 'store' their masks when not in use, and based on my observations, I suspect they do more harm than good!

A common cold is a very minor illness.

Both Rhinoviruses and Sars-Cov-2 are minor illnesses for the vast majority of people infected.

But of the colleagues of mine who have been tested recently that I know of, the only one who was hospitalised had a rhinovirus, not Sars-Cov-2. Those who tested positive for Sars-Cov-2 were either asymptomatic or had mild symptoms as far as I know.

My point is not to disagree with you at all but to point out that Sars-Cov-2 doesn't appear to be that different to other common viruses except for the fact we have a lot less immunity (but not zero immunity as some people falsely claim e.g. Ferguson et al.); the only reason I think masks might be a good idea (and this is only a might) is if they are proven to reduce the viral load, thus allowing us to build up more immunity with fewer severe infections.

However I still feel that the disadvantages are not being adequately considered.

Alternatively, will the transport companies say “to maintain public confidence, face coverings will remain mandatory on our services”?

This hits the nail on the head; it's mostly about giving [hysterical] people confidence, but at the expense of mental health and other things.

 

[trebor79]

Alternatively, will the transport companies say “to maintain public confidence, face coverings will remain mandatory on our services”?

Wouldn't have thought so. Most people don't want to wear them (evidenced by the fact that hardly anybody did before it was mandatory), so would avoid those transport providers insisting upon them.

 

[bramling]

I’m afraid I’ve no idea what you are talking about

That’s what I’ve seen happen at my local Tesco, FWIW.

 

[VauxhallandI]

That’s what I’ve seen happen at my local Tesco, FWIW.

My post was nothing about asking where masks where?

Sorry am I missing something?

 

[initiation]

It's no different than if there were to be a concert, the performers wouldn't have to be masked either

You joke but the church where I sing has (after 6 months away) now mandated masks for those even singing in the socially distanced, small choir. Crazy. No end in sight.

 

[gnolife]

My post was nothing about asking where masks where?

Sorry am I missing something?

Your post showing two signs saying youbcould ask staff for help, the reply was saying what they'd observed that help to be

 

[WM Bus]

Sign on the bus today had unusual/different wording to normal: "Your country needs you to wear the damn face covering". With picture of a pointing finger.
ID of the vehicle it was on was National Express West Midlands 4916 on route 55.

 

[Skimpot flyer]

Have you been asked to wear a mask at bus stops? I was waiting at a bus stop (just a post & sign with no shelter) and was asked by a mother to wear a mask.

Good grief
I’d have been tempted to say ‘well your baby’s father wasn’t wearing a covering...’

 

[yorkie]

People sometimes wonder if or why I am against face coverings. I'm not so much against them as a concept as being against the authoritarianism surrounding them.

The rise of authoritarianism is a big issue generally at the moment, but more so with face coverings than any other aspect. And, of course, they are a highly visible sign of the authoritarianism we now face.

I am not afraid to speak up against people who are rude and obnoxious to others (and that does include that minority of rail employees who go against the advice issued by the rail unions and their employers)

 

[35B]

You joke but the church where I sing has (after 6 months away) now mandated masks for those even singing in the socially distanced, small choir. Crazy. No end in sight.

And my church’s choir doesn’t use masks for the choir but manages in bubbles and with separation.

 

[Skimpot flyer]

Maybe. Or some might have found mask wearing to be not be such a big deal after all. I certainly don't think they are.

I'd certainly entertain the idea of keeping a permanent supply in the cupboard for the rare occasions when I have a cold but still need to get out and about. Better than the on train 'don't you dare sneeze on me' glary-eyes.

Seriously, if you’re masked and a sneeze takes you by surprise and you don’t have fast enough reactions to remove the mask before eruption, you would continue to wear it after it is soiled on the inside? Or how many clean ones would you expect to carry ?
The height of good manners would be to stay at home if you’ve already got the sniffles, surely?

 

[Yew]

Scottish Government announce card scheme for those exempt from wearing face coverings

The Scottish Government are “working on a card” that will be available to those exempt or unable to wear a face covering, the Health Secretary has announced.

www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com

appears to discuss it.

Good in my view. It should never have been done without a formal exemption process.

So much for not trying to overwhelming the NHS

 

[yorkie]

So much for not trying to overwhelming the NHS

That kind of overwhelming is deemed to be different

On the subject of ID or other 'evidence' of exemption, my understanding is that schools that have mandated face coverings (in many cases contrary to Government advice) generally appear to be stipulating that any students who are exempt must wear a lanyard to indicate this.

If they do not agree to be 'labelled' by wearing a lanyard then they must wear a face covering, and any students not wearing a face covering properly and not wearing a lanyard are treated as having incorrect uniform, which if repeated (or combined with other misdemeanours) can potentially lead to sanctions such as detentions and isolation (depending on the school's policy).

 

[bramling]

People sometimes wonder if or why I am against face coverings. I'm not so much against them as a concept as being against the authoritarianism surrounding them.

The rise of authoritarianism is a big issue generally at the moment, but more so with face coverings than any other aspect. And, of course, they are a highly visible sign of the authoritarianism we now face.

I am not afraid to speak up against people who are rude and obnoxious to others (and that does include that minority of rail employees who go against the advice issued by the rail unions and their employers)

I agree, one of the really unpleasant aspects of this has been the way some people have taken a completely free hand to be authoritarian.

The whole Covid situation is crappy for everyone, however this side of things has made a bad situation a lot worse - unnecessarily so.

Unfortunately this damage is going to take a long time to put right.

 

[MattA7]

I just got a exemption lanyard a few days ago which so far seems to be respected at least by Asda Covid Marshalls . Does sturgeons new card scheme mean that is now (or soon will be) invalid

 

[Skimpot flyer]

That kind of overwhelming is deemed to be different

On the subject of ID or other 'evidence' of exemption, my understanding is that schools that have mandated face coverings (in many cases contrary to Government advice) generally appear to be stipulating that any students who are exempt must wear a lanyard to indicate this.

If they do not agree to be 'labelled' by wearing a lanyard then they must wear a face covering, and any students not wearing a face covering properly and not wearing a lanyard are treated as having incorrect uniform, which if repeated (or combined with other misdemeanours) can potentially lead to sanctions such as detentions and isolation (depending on the school's policy).

I do hope in the fullness of time, we will look back on this era and cringe at the insanity of a child’s education being interrupted in this way

 

[bramling]

I do hope in the fullness of time, we will look back on this era and cringe at the insanity of a child’s education being interrupted in this way

I suspect we will look back at a lot of aspects of this and cringe.

Interestingly, my local Facebook page had some dissent on masks today, the first time I’ve really seen this on there. A Karen was moaning about why so many people aren’t wearing masks, and two people replied with essentially “it’s none of your business just worry about your own shopping”. Someone else came in that exempt people should be made to wear something, and this was actually shot down.

 

[Bantamzen]

I certainly think it's something we could learn from Asia - if you are symptomatic, stay at home or mask up.

Maybe, though I would prefer a culture where people coming down with this or the flu could feel confident in staying at home without fear of discipline or losing their jobs. You'll find in Eastern Asian countries, taking time off from work is frowned upon and in some quarters even seen as dishonourable. Countries like Japan often work very long hours, with much less time for personal downtime and leisure, and that comes with it's own price such as much higher suicide rates. This is why masks are often worn, to allow them to work when perhaps they shouldn't. And even if masks actually did help, and I don't honestly think they do, they still risk passing the viruses on through contact, moments when they stop to eat, drink or smoke.

Staying at home at much as possible is far more preferable in every sense.

Scottish Government announce card scheme for those exempt from wearing face coverings

The Scottish Government are “working on a card” that will be available to those exempt or unable to wear a face covering, the Health Secretary has announced.

www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com

appears to discuss it.

Good in my view. It should never have been done without a formal exemption process.

So much for not trying to overwhelming the NHS

Indeed, we are approaching the winter months, referrals will be on the up, there's a massive backlog of cases from Covid-Mania 2020, the last things GPs need is more work just to satisfy the Karens & busybodies. The government message should be simply, "Its none of your business Karen"...

 

[VauxhallandI]

Your post showing two signs saying youbcould ask staff for help, the reply was saying what they'd observed that help to be

My post was about incorrect/illegal signage and nothing to do with asking for help from staff. Sorry

 

[Bletchleyite]

If they do not agree to be 'labelled' by wearing a lanyard then they must wear a face covering, and any students not wearing a face covering properly and not wearing a lanyard are treated as having incorrect uniform, which if repeated (or combined with other misdemeanours) can potentially lead to sanctions such as detentions and isolation (depending on the school's policy).

Schools are and always have been an authoritarian environment, though, indeed they aren't as authoritarian as they were in say the 1930s. If you think that should not be the case, isn't that a wider question than COVID?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Oct 2020 ==

Maybe, though I would prefer a culture where people coming down with this or the flu could feel confident in staying at home without fear of discipline or losing their jobs. You'll find in Eastern Asian countries, taking time off from work is frowned upon and in some quarters even seen as dishonourable. Countries like Japan often work very long hours, with much less time for personal downtime and leisure, and that comes with it's own price such as much higher suicide rates. This is why masks are often worn, to allow them to work when perhaps they shouldn't. And even if masks actually did help, and I don't honestly think they do, they still risk passing the viruses on through contact, moments when they stop to eat, drink or smoke.

Staying at home at much as possible is far more preferable in every sense.

Yes, and you'll see that I advocate increasing SSP to the furlough rate (the cap is probably meaningless, as higher paid jobs tend to pay 100% from day one anyway). But if you need to go to the shop, put a mask on.

 

[Richard Scott]

Seriously, if you’re masked and a sneeze takes you by surprise and you don’t have fast enough reactions to remove the mask before eruption, you would continue to wear it after it is soiled on the inside? Or how many clean ones would you expect to carry ?
The height of good manners would be to stay at home if you’ve already got the sniffles, surely?

With my sinus issue I'd be permanently at home, a little over the top, I think?

 

[Bletchleyite]

With my sinus issue I'd be permanently at home, a little over the top, I think?

You know when you've got a cold and when you're experiencing things you usually experience due to an existing condition.

 

[Domh245]

My post was about incorrect/illegal signage and nothing to do with asking for help from staff. Sorry

The signage you took a picture of, and the 'improved' poster says "If you don't have your own, please speak to a colleague for help"

The "help" is being directed to buy a pack of masks...

 

[VauxhallandI]

The signage you took a picture of, and the 'improved' poster says "If you don't have your own, please speak to a colleague for help"

The "help" is being directed to buy a pack of masks...

I didn't refer to the help part of the poster, it wasn't of my corn and wasn't what the post was about hence my total confusion as to what everyone is going on about asking where masks are kept.

It seems a reasonable offer, unlike the previous omission of exemptions which is the real issue here

 

[Domh245]

I didn't refer to the help part of the poster, it wasn't of my corn and wasn't what the post was about hence my total confusion as to what everyone is going on about asking where masks are kept.

You didn't refer to the help part, but somebody who had experience of the "help" posted it for people to discuss, quoting your post so that people could know what they were talking about. It's not about where the masks are kept so much as what constitutes "help" which is just as shameful a move as the failing to mention exemptions IMO. If I didn't have a mask because I had an exemption, I'd be quite put out if rather than being told "oh alright, carry on then" I was told to buy a pack of masks (particularly in the case of the first poster without mention of exemptions at all)

 

[VauxhallandI]

You didn't refer to the help part, but somebody who had experience of the "help" posted it for people to discuss, quoting your post so that people could know what they were talking about. It's not about where the masks are kept so much as what constitutes "help" which is just as shameful a move as the failing to mention exemptions IMO. If I didn't have a mask because I had an exemption, I'd be quite put out if rather than being told "oh alright, carry on then" I was told to buy a pack of masks (particularly in the case of the first poster without mention of exemptions at all)

Gotcha ta

 

[Jamesrob637]

I had an officer call round my house recently as part of house to house enquiries about a crime which had happened locally, no mask.

To be honest I would have perhaps expected him to have offered “would you like me to wear one?”.

I had my boiler serviced recently and the engineer said that it’s been a “total nightmare”, some people have been going into their gardens whilst he’s been working.

I rejected PAT testing and gas man back in April into mine until my estate agent emailed me saying that many others had done the same thing and we need(ed) to let them in as it was essential work. I begrudgingly allowed them to visit but a few days apart.

 

[ainsworth74]

Personally I find the signs of rising authoritarianism like the Government seeking to break international law, continuing to use the dead cat of "ASYLUM SEEKERS", labelling lawyers who challenge them as being "activists", opening talking about making it harder to seek a judicial review, illegally proroguing Parliament or dropping regulations minutes before they're due to come into force with no Parliamentary scrutiny despite being announced days in advance to be more worrying than face masks. But each to their own I suppose