Tyne & Wear Metro: Fleet Refurbishment List

[MetroCar4058]

Just a quick question, does our SPAD Indusi system physically restrict the driver? Or does it only take control in threatening situations where a SPAD could occur?

 

[142094]

Just a quick question, does our SPAD Indusi system physically restrict the driver? Or does it only take control in threatening situations where a SPAD could occur?

Depends on the situation. The Indusi has two main parts - either magnets associated with signals or magnets associated with speed control. The magnets at signals will only stop a train if the signal is at danger. Just about every signal which can show a red aspect has an Indusi magnet.

The speed control magnets are I believe located on the approach to termini including Airport, St James and South Hylton, as well as level crossings, Sunderland station and also St. Peter's on the Up line. These will only bring a train to a stop if the driver does not slow down sufficiently enough.

There are a couple of oddities which don't follow this.

 

[Paul_10]

Depends on the situation. The Indusi has two main parts - either magnets associated with signals or magnets associated with speed control. The magnets at signals will only stop a train if the signal is at danger. Just about every signal which can show a red aspect has an Indusi magnet.

The speed control magnets are I believe located on the approach to termini including Airport, St James and South Hylton, as well as level crossings, Sunderland station and also St. Peter's on the Up line. These will only bring a train to a stop if the driver does not slow down sufficiently enough.

There are a couple of oddities which don't follow this.

Whats the reasoning of placing a magnet there? Does not seem to make a sence because if it was an infrastructure reason then a speed restriction would be placed there instead.

 

[142094]

Whats the reasoning of placing a magnet there? Does not seem to make a sence because if it was an infrastructure reason then a speed restriction would be placed there instead.

Not entirely sure, although there is a 20kph speed board just before St. Peter's towards Sunderland. Not sure if it has something to do with the signal that protects Sunderland station.

 

[tez thorn]

isnt there some points in the tunnel at sunderland,if so it could be for that, does the board have 20kph

an arrow underneath it of just 20kph

 

[MetroCar4058]

Also, on the note of Sunderland, the Virgin/Stagecoach ECML franchise today announced increased frequency for Sunderland, surely this will have an effect on our Metro? I'm worried, I really wish we were on our own lines down that way, NR is unpredictable and could throw other trains in which cause issues, like that of last week - I wish Park Lane - South Hylton was owned by Nexus :/

 

[markydh]

It's only one return journey each day via Newcastle and Heworth...

 

[MetroCar4058]

Wait, Heworth will get a London link too? It still could cause some delay to Metro services

 

[ModernRailways]

Wait, Heworth will get a London link too? It still could cause some delay to Metro services

No, the trains are running non-stop through Heworth But as mentioned it will be only be one or two trains per day.

 

[MetroCar4058]

Just about to say! That would be unusual. I think i may just be being a bit selfish for Metro haha

Yesterday 4017s doors wouldn't open when I clicked them, yet at the next station they opened, very unusual stuff - unless i was stupid and didn't push it

 

[142094]

isnt there some points in the tunnel at sunderland,if so it could be for that, does the board have 20kph

an arrow underneath it of just 20kph

There are two sets of points in Sunderland North Tunnel, just after the bridge over the river, however the speed limit from St. Peter's to Sunderland goes up from 20kph to 60, then back down to 30 and then 20, so don't think the magnets are for that.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Yesterday 4017s doors wouldn't open when I clicked them, yet at the next station they opened, very unusual stuff - unless i was stupid and didn't push it

Sometimes the button will light up but the doors will not open. The button next to it should work.

 

[markydh]

Yes I meant via that line rather than actually stopping there!

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Isn't Heworth on the four track section anyway therefore no effect on paths for Metros?

 

[MetroCar4058]

Indeedy, the lines don't connect until after Pelaw, I just thought it was a shocker if a national service stopped at Heworth, but it isn't

 

[inais20]

Are the national rail platforms at Heworth even long enough to take an HST set?

 

[ModernRailways]

Are the national rail platforms at Heworth even long enough to take an HST set?

Not an East Coast rake, but I am aware that Grand Central's 180s (and HSTs with PC hanging off either end of the platforms) can fit.

 

[142094]

Isn't Heworth on the four track section anyway therefore no effect on paths for Metros?

Problem is further down the line on the shared sections. On a normal Mon - Fri there are the 5 Metro services per hour, plus one Northern in each direction. Add to that the GC services and freight, there are quite a lot of movements in a very short space.

If a Northern service is running late from Middlesbrough/Nunthorpe, the Metro services get held at Park Lane and Sunderland to allow it to pass. Grand Central sometimes also delay Metro services if they take a bit longer to leave the platform, plus if the Metro is running late (which is unfortunately on a daily basis now), everything else has to go slow - max speed on a Metro is 80 kph/50 mph whereas the top linespeed is 70 mph. The downside to the Sunderland Extension is the fact that stations are comparably well spaced compared to the rest of the Metro network, so even if a Metrocar is going full belt between Pelaw Junction and Stadium of Light, it is no match to the Northern unit behind.

One of the frustrating things also is that into and out of Tyne Dock on both the Boldon West and East Chords, the linespeed is 20 mph, so freight trains take ages to cross the junctions. Plus I think the signal which allows access onto the Boldon East Chord from the Down Sunderland is approach controlled, so the freight has to just about come to a stand. Added to this, the signal before is a repeater so the signal section is just about double the length of others on the system, so a Metro often gets held before the AHB crossings before it can run towards Brockley Whins from East Boldon.

In essence, adding an extra train per day on the new East Coast franchise will not make much difference but will be interesting to see how it is pathed to avoid conflicts elsewhere.

 

[Tramfan]

4016 has returned from refurbishment, assume 4005 has left as this is the only non-refurb I haven't seen today/yesterday

 

[ModernRailways]

4027 is sat in the depot atm. Looks to possibly be next to go.

 

[MetroCar4058]

Yeah 4027 was sitting outside today alone, there was also one non refurbished unit coupled with a refurb at the depot which was a nice thing to see.

Saw a coal train delay a Metro today as it went through Sunderland painfully slow, it really did hit the nail on the head about the timings of paths down that way, tight - But I must admit, I do like seeing a bit of variation when I'm down that way, its nice seeing all the different liveries but I bet its a bit of a pain as we said a few posts ago when things go wrong.

Poor 4075 had a bit of her door seal missing at B8, a good 2inch gap at the bottom so I hope she gets fixed up.

Someone has also crashed into Benton bridge, service is currently suspended Benton - Shiremoor, why can people not read eh! Suppose it adds a bit of fun to the day.

 

[Tramfan]

there was also one non refurbished unit coupled with a refurb at the depot which was a nice thing to see.

It's 4003 and 4011, they've been outside Road 9 (east) since yesterday evening

 

[tez thorn]

was on 4029 today which smelt as if something was burning, 4055 was leading but seemed to struggle

out of palmersville, im sure 4016 and 4007 left quite close together so 4005 probably did leave which

means 4007 must be due to return, so yes 4027 could be next

 

[MetroCar4058]

Probably still low rail adhesion, it's still quite frequency across the network and the smell was probably from the grinding metal, nothing much to worry about though.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Does anyone know whats been happening up Airport way over the past two nights? Yesterday we had OHLE failure and today signalling? Any more info on that?

 

[MetroCar4058]

Then male announcer is back he's more refined and has a lesser variation in tone, oh no unit 4016

 

[Paul_10]

Then male announcer is back he's more refined and has a lesser variation in tone, oh no unit 4016

Interesting you say that because 4024 must also have the male announcements as when i was on this unit last week, the boards said "next station is ....." although because it was on the rear set, then it was the female announcements that was heard.

Be interesting if other refurbished sets that are coming back from Doncaster will have these announcements now.

 

[142094]

Current status is:

4032
4005
4084
4038 at Doncaster.

4007 at Gosforth commisioning.

 

[Paul_10]

Current status is:

4032
4005
4084
4038 at Doncaster.

4007 at Gosforth commisioning.

Thanks for that update, had a feeling it was either 4027 or 4032 that has gone for refurbishment as i have not seen either of them out and about on the system recently.

Seeing as you perhaps more inside knowledge than the rest of us, do you know the situation with units 4039/4066... Have not seen either of these units on the system for quite fair old while now although I did see 4039 on its own heading back into the depot a couple of weeks ago. I think they were both paired together so i'm guessing they may of been involved in a train failure or something?

 

[Tramfan]

4039 is back in service today with 4072, appears to have some overhaul work done similar to 4045 earlier this year including a replacement articulated section.

4066 I haven't seen for a while though.

Interesting also to see 4002 being shunted around by 4004 a couple of times at the depot today, first time I've seen a prototype paired with a refurb.

 

[Paul_10]

4039 is back in service today with 4072, appears to have some overhaul work done similar to 4045 earlier this year including a replacement articulated section.

4066 I haven't seen for a while though.

Interesting also to see 4002 being shunted around by 4004 a couple of times at the depot today, first time I've seen a prototype paired with a refurb.

Hopefully the work will mean those horrible vibrations that some refurb units have are now gone and the ride on the car will be smoother. If there is a couple of things that disapoint me about the refurbs, it is some of them are awful for rattles of the fixtures and the fact that the rubber in the articulated section seems too thick so its rubbing against the white plastic making horrid loud noises on some units and you can see the black marks it has left.

 

[142094]

4066 is I believe waiting for spare parts.