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Tyne & Wear Metro: Fleet Refurbishment List

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tez thorn

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i know about 2 years ago i boarded a train at Gateshead i think it was in December 2012, and the doors

had just closed and it started smoking about a medium amount, so i had to notify the driver, and we were

instantly detrained, but that started making the same loud spitting noise and also took a while to leave the

station, the unit in question was 4005 paired with 4033 (4033 being unrefurbished then), last year i

managed to take a trip on 4005 again and it smelt like it was burning then too, and my mate pointed it out

too
 
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Peter Mugridge

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Having had a cooker hob failure 1½ years ago after the wife boiled something over resulting in a large quantity of water getting into the middle of the hob where it shorted the electrics out, I wonder whether the spitting noise might be something arcing?

The hob certainly made a loud spitting noise ( that, combined with the breaker tripping, was how I found that she's had a major boil over in the first place! ) which was down to arcing under one of the switches.
 
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Paul_10

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They basically haven't been refurbed, just a new lick of paint to fool the majority of people.

Worries me how tight money seems to be.

What a load of rubbish! :roll:

They are being totally stripped down and rebuilt to deal with the corrison issues that the metrocars have, it is certainly more than just a lick of paint.
 

ModernRailways

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Worries me how tight money seems to be.

Me too! And it would be nice to find out the differences between what 4041/4072 had done and what the latest ones have had done.

I do wonder what would have happened if Nexus had the balls to basically say to the Government 'Look, we don't have enough money to refurbish the full fleet to a high standard. Could we have some more money to help get a good refurbishment that will last.' They could be told 'No. Get lost.' But then Nexus could have used that as a kind of way to tell the public that they'll have to pressure for the money and then they also have an excuse as well for any problems that they have because of the lack of funds.
 

Paul_10

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Me too! And it would be nice to find out the differences between what 4041/4072 had done and what the latest ones have had done.

I do wonder what would have happened if Nexus had the balls to basically say to the Government 'Look, we don't have enough money to refurbish the full fleet to a high standard. Could we have some more money to help get a good refurbishment that will last.' They could be told 'No. Get lost.' But then Nexus could have used that as a kind of way to tell the public that they'll have to pressure for the money and then they also have an excuse as well for any problems that they have because of the lack of funds.

The differences look very minor too me, obvious one is there is no more air con boxes at the A ends after complaints from the drivers, no more passenger counters are being installed and it seems the door seals are stlll the same unlike the earlier refurbishments and I suppose you can't rule out any other hidden changes which as a passenger we won't even know about but nothing to affect the standards of the refurbishments.

Obviously going over budget on other projects meant 4 cars won't be refurbished but as I remember reading in one of the ITA reports, this won't have any visual affects on the refurbishment programe that passengers would notice.

I know from recent posts you don't seem too keen on the refurbishment of the interior by saying it looks plastic looking but any comparisons between the first units and more recent ones are very minor indeed and certainly does not affect the quality nor performance of the metrocars.
 

MetroCar4058

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Wait, are they not renewing the door seals now? I don't even think the pre referbs have them anymore as the draft coming through the doors is unbelievable!

I think the refurbs are allot quieter in the tunnels than the old ones, so credit to Nexus, shame they couldn't refurbish all 88 main Metrocars but meh, suppose having some looking modern and slick is better than none at all.

Regarding refurbishments, when will the works at Central start, and has any extra funding been secured for the Haymarket look? I wonder how long it will be until they try to spruce up Monument - Now that will be a hard job.
 

142094

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I've noticed this also and it seems none of the windows are actually replaced as you can still see the large amount of grub on some trains, its a good way of saving money(and why replace a window if its not damaged) but they could of at least give them a bit of a clean.

Don't think the windows on the original refurbs were renewed either - little point unless they were damaged and had to be replaced.

You can see on some of them where the old sticker that used to be in the centre front window (the one that advised do not distract the driver etc) is still there, sometimes at the bottom and sometimes at the top.
 

ModernRailways

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Well tonight was interesting.

Train 132 left Gateshead and then about 40 seconds later, there was a massive blue flash followed by a massive bang - pantograph seemed to have dropped. The train lights went off, and the train came to a stand. Driver checked out the train and then after about 5/10 minutes we restarted our journey towards South Shields.

Then just after Pelaw, alongside the sidings the same thing happened. Driver inspected the train and the undercarriage for any smoke since he couldn't really check in the tunnel. He then isolated the front pantograph, and we trundled to Hebburn where we then detrained and told to wait. However, it was the last train... Thankfully, the last Pelaw train (Service 107) was sent down behind us to take over whilst the failed service went down to Jarrow and turned around there running empty back to the depot.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, but announcements really need to be made. We had no announcement from the driver at all after either incident to tell people what was happening. The only announcement came on approach to Hebburn where we told we had to leave the train because of a fault with the train and that another train was being extended to continue the service. No apology, nothing. I can understand no announcement immediately after, as he was likely speaking with control, but once he got off the phone with control he should have made an announcement just apologising

At Hebburn two lasses went to the Help Point and demanded a Taxi because 'the metro service is s*it'. The guy on the other end just hung straight up, granted they did say what they did but there was no reason for him not to have just said 'We can't get you a taxi but a train will be along to take you on your way in about 3 minutes. You can claim for a refund for your tickets.'

I did notice there was no mention of it on any of their social media accounts or the Nexus site too...

It was also quite funny because the first time it happened in Gateshead, another passenger said 'Oh god! Just make sure we don't start smoking, if we do I'm out of here.' whilst pointing to an emergency door handle. Thankfully there was a CSA on board so that would have likely been stopped .
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I know from recent posts you don't seem too keen on the refurbishment of the interior by saying it looks plastic looking but any comparisons between the first units and more recent ones are very minor indeed and certainly does not affect the quality nor performance of the metrocars.

I actually thought it was fairly nice when they first came out (hence my picture on here :p), but after they've been in service a month they just seem to be a complete tip. Obviously, that's not exactly Metro's fault, but when seats are falling off, lights are considerably dimmer (to the point where un-refurbs have stronger lighting) and various other things not seeming to last, makes me think (and many others) that this refurbishment won't last for the full duration that Nexus would like.

Another problem is the doors, I've noticed now on quite a few sets the door buttons aren't working, and the doors are sticking and need a little push to open. That happens on unrefurbs too, but not as often and the doors just generally seem highly unreliable now, at least once a week a train has a set of doors out of service.

I did also say 'And it would be nice to find out the differences between what 4041/4072 had done and what the latest ones have had done.' because whilst there have been various changes to what we see it makes me wonder if anything 'underneath' has also been skipped/changed.
 
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Paul_10

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I actually thought it was fairly nice when they first came out (hence my picture on here :p), but after they've been in service a month they just seem to be a complete tip. Obviously, that's not exactly Metro's fault, but when seats are falling off, lights are considerably dimmer (to the point where un-refurbs have stronger lighting) and various other things not seeming to last, makes me think (and many others) that this refurbishment won't last for the full duration that Nexus would like.

Another problem is the doors, I've noticed now on quite a few sets the door buttons aren't working, and the doors are sticking and need a little push to open. That happens on unrefurbs too, but not as often and the doors just generally seem highly unreliable now, at least once a week a train has a set of doors out of service.

I did also say 'And it would be nice to find out the differences between what 4041/4072 had done and what the latest ones have had done.' because whilst there have been various changes to what we see it makes me wonder if anything 'underneath' has also been skipped/changed.

I've no idea why little seems to of been done about the lighting fading when its a pretty obvious thing to notice, its rather funny because when you going past a refurbished set after dark, you know which one is an older refurb set and which one is a more recent one. The only thing I noticed is that lighting on refurbished sets which have been in service for a good while are not as dull as the earlier ones.

Regarding the doors, you got to remember how many times they are being opened and closed during the day and then you got your incidents of them being pushed back so if you only see one door out of service per week, I don't think that is too bad really all things considering.


I think the refurbished sets will last until they are eventually retired but no doubt by the time that date arrives, they will look quite worn out although I wouldnt rule out any minor refreshes between now and then though.
 

Nexus_Comms

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Obviously going over budget on other projects meant 4 cars won't be refurbished but as I remember reading in one of the ITA reports, this won't have any visual affects on the refurbishment programe that passengers would notice.

A Nexus spokesman said:

"Can we just state that, while forum members will have their own opinions about the Metrocar refurbishment, it is not the case that money has been taken from this project to support other projects. What has happened is that Metrocar refurbishment itself has proved more expensive than anticipated, due to frame corrosion being more extensive than originally anticipated. As a result we have increased the project budget by several million, while reducing the number of cars to be refurbished from 90 to 86. We've attached a photo of car 4046 at Wabtec as an illustration of what work takes place."

imagejpg1_zps7a8f6985.jpg


imagejpg1_zps27ad66f1.jpg
 

Paul_10

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My apologises, I do stand corrected on that one.

So the plan is still for 4 cars to not get refurbished, what will happen to these cars once the refurbishment programme is finished? Will they recieve a light refresh(e.g new fleet livery, new seat covers etc) or remain in their current state and only work during the xmas period?

Seems quite a fair amount of units being put in reserve considering the reliability issues with the fleet to start off with.
 

MetroCar4058

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I do agree that 86 units is a stretch considering they are highly utilised in the first place. My dibs will be that they will continue on in service as normal, even if they aren't spruced up. I'm sure I heard somewhere they would get a basic update, but the extent of that is very ambiguous.

I would like to say thank you to Nexus for taking the time to comment in these forums :)
 
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danielnez1

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I would hope that the 4 unrefurbished units would receive mods to allow them to work with the refurbished units.

Also, if the 4 units aren’t going to have their corroded frames repaired, wouldn’t that affect their longevity and potently their crashworthiness?
 

inais20

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Thanks Nexus_Comms for those pictures, pretty interesting. I notice the horizontal frame continues across the front of the car where the emergency exit door was located on the original test metrocars in the 70s. I wonder if that's why the door was eventually removed in the production metrocars, to provide extra chassis strength through that section?
 

142094

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Thanks Nexus_Comms for those pictures, pretty interesting. I notice the horizontal frame continues across the front of the car where the emergency exit door was located on the original test metrocars in the 70s. I wonder if that's why the door was eventually removed in the production metrocars, to provide extra chassis strength through that section?

Remember reading that the front access door would have been used in the event of an evacuation in the tunnelled sections - in the end the tunnels had walkways one one side so the saloon and driver's doors could be opened to evacuate the car that way. Also there were apparently problems with water leaking through the door on the prototype cars 4001/02, so another reason why it was not used in the rest of the fleet.
 

MetroCar4058

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I think the MetroCars look better without the front door, the door looked misplaced although would be good for the driver to move into the back cab in the event of emergency.

Today wasn't the best for Metro, what happened with this 'signalling fault' was it the points at South Gosforth again? Surely they could have ran to Benton instead of Monkseaton and worked like they do at Kingston Park.

When is St James staffed? Today me and my friends were there waiting for a friend and the abuse we got off some scum was despicable! Luckily there was police officers on the train at P1 who I asked to go and have a word however they had sharp moved on by the time the police had got there. They were clearly stoned/drunk and were smoking in the building, all of which is all too common at St James. The design of that station is also awful, it is really obvious that it was not designed to be the terminus.. Mrs Thatcher.

Finally, it was nice to see a positioning driver force a Metro door open today at West Jesmond. After the warning tone had sounded and the doors were mostly closed, a great display of hypocrisy. That ride was very interesting, many people obviously cannot read, including the positioning driver as they fail to understand the 'Sorry out of order' signs on the lead doors, which were clearly displayed - Although this did provide a good chuckle.

Sorry for a rant on, haven't posted in a while
 

Tbrown1980

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Just noticed on Twitter that another account has been set up to highlight how bad the Metro is recently (@TW_MetroDelays).

Judging by the comments/tweets, it seems there are lots of unhappy people who don't rate the quality of the Metro service at the minute :rolleyes:
 

MetroCar4058

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Thats no good! As much as I moan I stand by Metro, people moan over anything and I really hate it when people kick off on the platform and cause a scene. People can't expect the best service if they want the cheapest of prices!

I think the units themselves are doing rather well, and the ticket lines are fantastic for revenue purposes however Nexus Rail are letting us down with the constant point failures and signal issues.

Looking at some peoples complaints they really need to stop moaning, one man was moaning about a 3 minute delay, another a 5 minute wait - get in the real world people! I'd say 50% hyperbole is the main issue, not the Metro.
 
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ModernRailways

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Thats no good! As much as I moan I stand by Metro, people moan over anything and I really hate it when people kick off on the platform and cause a scene. People can't expect the best service if they want the cheapest of prices!

I think the units themselves are doing rather well, and the ticket lines are fantastic for revenue purposes however Nexus Rail are letting us down with the constant point failures and signal issues.

Looking at some peoples complaints they really need to stop moaning, one man was moaning about a 3 minute delay, another a 5 minute wait - get in the real world people! I'd say 50% hyperbole is the main issue, not the Metro.

It's the railway as a whole tbh. The media make it seem like people are paying a lot of money (and they are, but only because it has to be paid in one lump sum) and so they should expect an absolutely outstanding service. A lot of those people really need to open their eyes and see what it's actually like. I've noticed a lot of people claim to be delayed every single day, even though I know for a fact that the specific train they're speaking about was on time, however they weren't actually on it - they don't seem to get the Metro anymore now as I haven't seen them for a good while.
 

Paul_10

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Was caught up on a metro in a trespass incident today at Sunderland and the reason I will mention it is because it be something ModernRailways will no doubt like and this is a driver informing his passengers. Not only he kept his passengers informed during the incident but afterwards also making various announcements informing and apologising to passengers for the delay to their service and the reasoning behind it once they have boarded.

Had a bit of a rare full day out on the Metro and I noted some observations.

*4010 is now back in service paired with 4047, was first seen NIS during the day heading towards South Shields and then later on in the evening peak.

*4035 is also back in service and was paired with 4051 on 109. However this train was withdrawn from service and 4035 was later seen paired with 4082 on the evening peaks.

*4024(?) has returned from refurbishment which may mean another unit has went down... Only 4080/84 was not seen so one of these is down in Doncaster. I suspect it be 4084 seeing as the East Coast ad contract apparently expires about now.
 

ModernRailways

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Was caught up on a metro in a trespass incident today at Sunderland and the reason I will mention it is because it be something ModernRailways will no doubt like and this is a driver informing his passengers. Not only he kept his passengers informed during the incident but afterwards also making various announcements informing and apologising to passengers for the delay to their service and the reasoning behind it once they have boarded.

Had a bit of a rare full day out on the Metro and I noted some observations.

*4010 is now back in service paired with 4047, was first seen NIS during the day heading towards South Shields and then later on in the evening peak.

*4035 is also back in service and was paired with 4051 on 109. However this train was withdrawn from service and 4035 was later seen paired with 4082 on the evening peaks.

*4024(?) has returned from refurbishment which may mean another unit has went down... Only 4080/84 was not seen so one of these is down in Doncaster. I suspect it be 4084 seeing as the East Coast ad contract apparently expires about now.

Psst... I was on the same train (boarded at South Gosforth). He made the same announcement upon departure of South Gosforth and then upon departure of Fawdon. Do you know the service number? I tried to get it so I could email Metro, with some praise for him but there was a driver change at Kingston Park when I got off so I wasn't able to see it and was hoping to find out when I got home. Never have I heard such an in depth announcement with such a genuine apology by anyone at Metro and it really needs recognised that he did it.
 

Tramfan

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Do you know if 4024 returned yesterday, as I did see 4084 as recently as Monday paired with 4080 on TRB 150, although after they had returned to depot in the evening 4084 was switched off and 4080 was shunting it around.

4035 did briefly enter service with 4069 on Monday, but they broke down after one trip to Monkseaton on TRB 153

I've also been on at least 2 trains in the past week where we've been held at a red signal and the driver has apologised advising that we were awaiting the train in front to clear a station.
 

Paul_10

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I think it was TRB 111 but I'm not entirely certain I'm afraid. Shame the audio from 4004A was poor though so he was not always sounding as clear as it could of been.

Do you know if 4024 returned yesterday, as I did see 4084 as recently as Monday paired with 4080 on TRB 150, although after they had returned to depot in the evening 4084 was switched off and 4080 was shunting it around.

4035 did briefly enter service with 4069 on Monday, but they broke down after one trip to Monkseaton on TRB 153

I've also been on at least 2 trains in the past week where we've been held at a red signal and the driver has apologised advising that we were awaiting the train in front to clear a station.

I seen a refurbished unit being shunted by both battery locos yesterday and I think 4024 was the next one to come back, if it was not 4024 it will be 4016. Either way, I'd imagine 4080 or 4084 have now gone as I seen all the other unrefurbished sets yesterday.
 

142094

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It was 111, a short was extended to the Airport to cover the large gap and then a driver changeover at Kingston Park.
 

ModernRailways

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I think it was TRB 111 but I'm not entirely certain I'm afraid. Shame the audio from 4004A was poor though so he was not always sounding as clear as it could of been.

It was 111, a short was extended to the Airport to cover the large gap and then a driver changeover at Kingston Park.

Thanks! I'll fire off an email later!

There was no short service extended? I got to South Gosforth on train 135, and there was no Airport train (or Regent Centre), the train after 135 was 121 followed by the 15+ late Airport train. There isn't any short services scheduled either so unless it ran empty from the depot to Regent Centre and went up to Airport avoiding most of the crowds - with the exception of running back through the core toward South Hylton.
 

Paul_10

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Not 100% sure but I'm sure I saw 4080 paired with 4001 on this afternoon so if thats the case that means 4084 was the one that left for Doncaster this week.
 

MetroCar4058

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On a totally different note, last month was actually 64% punctuality! Thats rather good compared to what we expected! http://www.nexus.org.uk/sites/default/files/Metro Charter poster P8_2014web_0.pdf

Also the amount of people who hold doors open is ridiculous, we need to clamp down on this as it is 'dangerous, causes delays and can lead to a fine of up to £1000' even if it is to help the person who is running frantically for the train. These people tend to be the first ones to moan when a train is took out of service due to fault :rolleyes:
 
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