Tyne & Wear Metro: Fleet Refurbishment List

[ModernRailways]

WOOOO about time the Shields-Pelaw section got some loving!

Edit: also I believe there were no delays today.

Last train to South Shields arrived 25 Late. The second last Pelaw was pushed in front of it, and the last train was right behind it - the second last Pelaw train comes from Airport, and the last Pelaw comes from St James, so would have been following for almost the full journey.

Stuck at Hebburn too for a couple of minutes because the power was out and so the driver was unable to release the doors.

My train earlier in the day had also been delayed, destination boards were showing 'Delays to Service. Metro Apologise' almost all day too.

I did notice they haven't posted any delay info to Twitter / Facebook mind, which is odd since there were delays.

 

[MetroCar4058]

Just been on the Metro, the issue today was

'Trains have been took out of service due to staff shortages'

Was it 40 drivers they are recruiting? Isn't that like half of the roster.

 

[ModernRailways]

Just been on the Metro, the issue today was

'Trains have been took out of service due to staff shortages'

Was it 40 drivers they are recruiting? Isn't that like half of the roster.

Indeed, 40 drivers being recruited.

There CSA's are also around 1/3 down, there should be 90 CSA's, but there are only 76, and around 15 of them are also on the sick so... The 30% more staff advert is a complete lie.

 

[Scott M]

Last train to South Shields arrived 25 Late. The second last Pelaw was pushed in front of it, and the last train was right behind it - the second last Pelaw train comes from Airport, and the last Pelaw comes from St James, so would have been following for almost the full journey.

Stuck at Hebburn too for a couple of minutes because the power was out and so the driver was unable to release the doors.

My train earlier in the day had also been delayed, destination boards were showing 'Delays to Service. Metro Apologise' almost all day too.

I did notice they haven't posted any delay info to Twitter / Facebook mind, which is odd since there were delays.

Shame would have been nice for them to have a good day.

I went to get the last metro from S.Shields yesterday and had a 35 minute wait.

Saw a grand central train on the track right next to the Pelaw platform 1 track yesterday. Never seen that track used before and looks so rusty I had presumed it was out of use. Was quite cool seeing it so close up.

 

[ModernRailways]

Shame would have been nice for them to have a good day.

I went to get the last metro from S.Shields yesterday and had a 35 minute wait.

Saw a grand central train on the track right next to the Pelaw platform 1 track yesterday. Never seen that track used before and looks so rusty I had presumed it was out of use. Was quite cool seeing it so close up.

That would have been the same train I was on

That happens quite regular, the train from London doesn't have enough time to go to Heaton, get cleaned and then back to Sunderland so instead they get cleaned in that loop, I think it's only one train per day that uses it though.

 

[Paul_10]

I believe 4007 has left for Doncaster last week with 55 coming back. Its the only unit with the exception of 4003 I have not seen and its unlikely 03 is going for refurbishment at the moment whilst its being repaired.

 

[Tramfan]

Yeah 4003 is still at Gosforth Depot, was being shunted around by 4008 on Saturday evening

 

[142094]

4003 was paired with 27 on the shorts this morning.

 

[MetroCar4058]

Yeah both 03 and 27 have been back out in service. Must mean it wasn't a major fire and and the rapid return to service may suggest that it wasn't the usual fault

Does anyone know if/when the tamper will be fixed? Adhesion has got slightly better from when I've been out and about but its still a little below par, especially along the core, Iford Road and West Jesmond in particular.

 

[ModernRailways]

Does anyone know if/when the tamper will be fixed? Adhesion has got slightly better from when I've been out and about but its still a little below par, especially along the core, Iford Road and West Jesmond in particular.

The main leaf fall is pretty much over now, so delays due to LRA will start to decrease. The Road Rail Vehicle is still going around during the night though so that will be helping a bit. I'm not sure how the tamper is doing though.

 

[142094]

4038 looks to be the next one going down - so only one left with the East Coast livery.

 

[Paul_10]

4038 looks to be the next one going down - so only one left with the East Coast livery.

Apparently the contract is nearly more or less finished although it be interesting how much of the feel at home with East Coast branding that is around the interchange stations in particular will remain for.

 

[ModernRailways]

Another train this morning caught fire. Service was suspended all stations Monument to South Hylton / South Shields. Trains are running again but with severe delays.

Incident occurred on Pelaw Junction on the South Shields branch. The train was detrained, passengers walked along the track and up an embankment to safety.

 

[Tramfan]

Another train this morning caught fire. Service was suspended all stations Monument to South Hylton / South Shields. Trains are running again but with severe delays.

Incident occurred on Pelaw Junction on the South Shields branch. The train was detrained, passengers walked along the track and up an embankment to safety.

I believe the train involved was 4010 paired with 4042 on 126 as this pair were in Pelaw siding (the one that can be accessed from the South Shields/Hylton end) and 4010 had its pantograph down. No visible damage to the exterior of the train.

 

[142094]

Bit early to say it 'caught fire'. Just because there is smoke doesn't mean the train was on fire.

 

[MetroCar4058]

Once again another blow to the Metro, simply a shocker and quite saddening to see our units struggling and frequently facing severe issues. Although I disagreed with this not so long ago I now believe we have some major questions coming our way from the safety board as this major incident frequency is simply unacceptable.

Newcastle Calling! We need new trains!

On reflection, could this not have been caused by overuse of brakes or excessive application with the low rail adhesion conditions? As this would increase axle temperature and could burn the leaves if the temperature got high enough? (might just be talking rubbish here)

 

[142094]

On reflection, could this not have been caused by overuse of brakes or excessive application with the low rail adhesion conditions? As this would increase axle temperature and could burn the leaves if the temperature got high enough? (might just be talking rubbish here)

Probably easier to explain how the braking system works first - normal braking is rheostatic, i.e. the traction motor is used to slow itself down, and the kinetic energy is dissipated as heat through resistors. Below a certain speed, disc brakes are used to slow the train. The disc brakes work on the outside of the wheels so they are unlikely to come into contact with any debris unless it has stuck to the outside of the wheels.

What is more likely is some sort of problem with the traction motor, which may have flashed. This is a common problem with this type of brushed motor and is not confined solely to the Metro: London Underground Holland Park Traction Motor Flashover

 

[ModernRailways]

Bit early to say it 'caught fire'. Just because there is smoke doesn't mean the train was on fire.

A friend I know who works for the Fire brigade said there was a fire on board a Metro train this morning which was 65% developed.

Even so, if it is 'just smoke' it raises a much bigger question of why is this happening so often, we've had 4 incidents (at least) in the last year. Why? And more importantly what is going to be done? Since right now it would appear nothing is being done.

Once again another blow to the Metro, simply a shocker and quite saddening to see our units struggling and frequently facing severe issues. Although I disagreed with this not so long ago I now believe we have some major questions coming our way from the safety board as this major incident frequency is simply unacceptable.

Newcastle Calling! We need new trains!

I must say with it being all refurbs (with the exception of 4003 which had a different problem) the question must be raised as to whether this is a fleet wide problem that is only going to get worse. And whilst new trains would help solve the problem, they can't just be plucked out of the air. I'm still of the opinion that the refurbishment has been done on the cheap meaning inferior parts and just general shoddy workmanship. It's quite funny to see in the articulated part of the trains the amount of screws that have been drilled in. On one train there was 4 where there should be one, and on set they just seemed to be stuck anywhere they liked.


A small side note that people may find interesting, but Nexus have imposed a new rule on DB. Basically, DB are no longer allowed to reuse old parts from other trains and must always buy a new part. Inevitably this is going to mean trains are out of service for longer whilst a part is sourced and delivered.

On reflection, could this not have been caused by overuse of brakes or excessive application with the low rail adhesion conditions? As this would increase axle temperature and could burn the leaves if the temperature got high enough? (might just be talking rubbish here)

Unlikely, especially given the location of where it occurred. Leaves aren't that big of a problem in that area to start with but LRA isn't too much of a problem now.

 

[142094]

A friend I know who works for the Fire brigade said there was a fire on board a Metro train this morning which was 65% developed.

Even so, if it is 'just smoke' it raises a much bigger question of why is this happening so often, we've had 4 incidents (at least) in the last year. Why? And more importantly what is going to be done? Since right now it would appear nothing is being done.

If the fire was 65% developed then the passengers who were detrained and on the track (some of who are taking pictures on their mobiles about 2 feet away from the side of the train) would be nowhere near it. Have to say I'm highly sceptical that this is anything other than a fault with the motors.

I must say with it being all refurbs (with the exception of 4003 which had a different problem) the question must be raised as to whether this is a fleet wide problem that is only going to get worse. And whilst new trains would help solve the problem, they can't just be plucked out of the air. I'm still of the opinion that the refurbishment has been done on the cheap meaning inferior parts and just general shoddy workmanship. It's quite funny to see in the articulated part of the trains the amount of screws that have been drilled in. On one train there was 4 where there should be one, and on set they just seemed to be stuck anywhere they liked.

I've repeatedly said that the 3/4 life refurbishment is not touching anything below the solebar - that includes all of the traction motor equipment. Secondly, Nexus are the one who specify what happens on the 3/4 life work so if it is being done on the cheap, then Nexus are the ones to blame. I'll not go into their record on the other projects which seem to waste money which has to be taken from elsewhere.

A small side note that people may find interesting, but Nexus have imposed a new rule on DB. Basically, DB are no longer allowed to reuse old parts from other trains and must always buy a new part. Inevitably this is going to mean trains are out of service for longer whilst a part is sourced and delivered.

No idea where this has come from. Just about everything on a Metrocar is obsolete and you cannot just go and buy a replacement. This is common across the railway industry. There will be a number of spares which are then swapped on a regular basis to allow for overhaul. Apart from items such as wheelsets/tyres, disc brake blocks and other 'consumables' which have to be changed regularly, you wouldn't be buying new parts everytime something needed changing. Also worth pointing out that again Nexus give DB money to maintain the fleet. Perhaps Nexus is not paying enough?

Unlikely, especially given the location of where it occurred. Leaves aren't that big of a problem in that area to start with but LRA isn't too much of a problem now.

Wheelslip can happen anywhere on the system, even in tunnels. Wheelslip doesn't just happen because the leaves fall off the trees and even then, a train can develop a fault later on in an area less prone to low rail adhesion, but the problem has been caused previously.

 

[Paul_10]

I must say with it being all refurbs (with the exception of 4003 which had a different problem) the question must be raised as to whether this is a fleet wide problem that is only going to get worse. And whilst new trains would help solve the problem, they can't just be plucked out of the air. I'm still of the opinion that the refurbishment has been done on the cheap meaning inferior parts and just general shoddy workmanship. It's quite funny to see in the articulated part of the trains the amount of screws that have been drilled in. On one train there was 4 where there should be one, and on set they just seemed to be stuck anywhere they liked..

I doubt the refurbishment has anything to do with it as nothing below the sole bar is being touched but the incidents which is involving smoke on trains with passengers on board is concerning simply because in passengers eyes smoke = fire which obviously will cause some panic. In the RAIB report, there has been other incidents of fires/smoke so its nothing new but perhaps worryingly these are occuring more frequently in the past 5 years.

4003 incident seems a bit different to 4052/4090 incidents as the OHL did not part and it was back in service within just over a week but it will be interesting how long 4010 will be out of service for.

One saving grace that all these incidents have not occured in a tunnel and hopefully this will never be the case.

 

[142094]

In fact, the only place I can find any mention of a 'fire' on the Metro is The Chronicle website. That is notwithstanding the article mentions "smoke filled the inside from the brakes", passengers were on the train for 20 minutes before being detrained and also that picture of people standing next to a supposedly burning train.

Strikes me as poor reporting by The Chronicle and a desire to sell more papers...
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I doubt the refurbishment has anything to do with it as nothing below the sole bar is being touched but the incidents which is involving smoke on trains with passengers on board is concerning simply because in passengers eyes smoke = fire which obviously will cause some panic. In the RAIB report, there has been other incidents of fires/smoke so its nothing new but perhaps worryingly these are occuring more frequently in the past 5 years.

As far as I am aware the Howdon incident with 4003 was a traction motor flashover, which is different from Walkergate and Gosforth Junction incidents which were problems with the linebreakers on the train and the substations.

 

[Paul_10]

In fact, the only place I can find any mention of a 'fire' on the Metro is The Chronicle website. That is notwithstanding the article mentions "smoke filled the inside from the brakes", passengers were on the train for 20 minutes before being detrained and also that picture of people standing next to a supposedly burning train.

Strikes me as poor reporting by The Chronicle and a desire to sell more papers...
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


As far as I am aware the Howdon incident with 4003 was a traction motor flashover, which is different from Walkergate and Gosforth Junction incidents which were problems with the linebreakers on the train and the substations.

Well one thing for sure if it was a fire then no one would remain on the train for 20 mins thats for sure. I also know passenger reports can be a bit sketchy but smoke coming from the drivers compartment?? Seems a bit odd too me. Either way though, it can't be hidden its yet another fault from an ageing fleet.

Ironically and on a seperate note, I was on 4042 this week whilst it was paired with 4010 and both units were making quite loud "spitting" type noises, I've heard this on metro units before so It was not something that would alarm me but this was continious almost and i wonder what is the cause of this will be? And why would it affect the other unit, i presume if the fault is on one unit(in this case 4042 was leading and the noise on this unit was louder) then it affects the other?

 

[Tramfan]

4042 was still making a very loud hissing noise today whilst it was being re-coupled to 4010 in Pelaw Siding - they ran 4042 into Pelaw platform 2 and then wrong line into the siding so that it was leading 4010 back to Gosforth depot.

 

[142094]

Ironically and on a seperate note, I was on 4042 this week whilst it was paired with 4010 and both units were making quite loud "spitting" type noises, I've heard this on metro units before so It was not something that would alarm me but this was continious almost and i wonder what is the cause of this will be? And why would it affect the other unit, i presume if the fault is on one unit(in this case 4042 was leading and the noise on this unit was louder) then it affects the other?

Spitting as in oil/water being pumped out, or say a put-put-put sound?

If there is a problem with the air compressor this sounds like the latter.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

4042 was still making a very loud hissing noise today whilst it was being re-coupled to 4010 in Pelaw Siding - they ran 4042 into Pelaw platform 2 and then wrong line into the siding so that it was leading 4010 back to Gosforth depot.

Technically it is not-wrong line as there is a signal which allows the movement from platform 2 into the sidings.

If there was a hissing sound when coupling up this sounds like a problem with the air pipe on the coupler.

 

[Paul_10]

Spitting as in oil/water being pumped out, or say a put-put-put sound?

If there is a problem with the air compressor this sounds like the latter.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Technically it is not-wrong line as there is a signal which allows the movement from platform 2 into the sidings.

If there was a hissing sound when coupling up this sounds like a problem with the air pipe on the coupler.

Hard to describe what the put-put-put would sound like but it sounded like the sound of spitting of oil/water and I have heard it on metro cars before but this was constant and quite loud. As it happened, the next day, i seen the same set and there was no spitting type sounds.

I don't think its the sound Tramfan has heard but I have also heard that sound also before and they are different.

 

[ModernRailways]

If the fire was 65% developed then the passengers who were detrained and on the track (some of who are taking pictures on their mobiles about 2 feet away from the side of the train) would be nowhere near it. Have to say I'm highly sceptical that this is anything other than a fault with the motors.

I was thinking the same, but since it was from a member of the fire service I did think it would be relatively truthful.

I've repeatedly said that the 3/4 life refurbishment is not touching anything below the solebar - that includes all of the traction motor equipment. Secondly, Nexus are the one who specify what happens on the 3/4 life work so if it is being done on the cheap, then Nexus are the ones to blame. I'll not go into their record on the other projects which seem to waste money which has to be taken from elsewhere.

I've noticed that there seems to be less and less being changed. The windows at the front of trains still have the old marks off where the old stickers used to be.

No idea where this has come from. Just about everything on a Metrocar is obsolete and you cannot just go and buy a replacement. This is common across the railway industry. There will be a number of spares which are then swapped on a regular basis to allow for overhaul. Apart from items such as wheelsets/tyres, disc brake blocks and other 'consumables' which have to be changed regularly, you wouldn't be buying new parts everytime something needed changing. Also worth pointing out that again Nexus give DB money to maintain the fleet. Perhaps Nexus is not paying enough?

It's from an internal letter that I was shown and was confirmed by a member of staff in the depot. It's what I found really quite interesting since it essentially means DB are paying Nexus more in fines thus increasing Nexus' revenue?

 

[Paul_10]

I've noticed that there seems to be less and less being changed. The windows at the front of trains still have the old marks off where the old stickers used to be.

I've noticed this also and it seems none of the windows are actually replaced as you can still see the large amount of grub on some trains, its a good way of saving money(and why replace a window if its not damaged) but they could of at least give them a bit of a clean.

 

[ModernRailways]

I've noticed this also and it seems none of the windows are actually replaced as you can still see the large amount of grub on some trains, its a good way of saving money(and why replace a window if its not damaged) but they could of at least give them a bit of a clean.

Exactly! I can agree with them not changing the windows if they're in a good condition and don't need replacing as it's just an unnecessary cost but surely giving them a good scrub wouldn't hurt. The windows are another thing, one of the sets still has the old metal finish around the windows, instead of the white plastic finish it should have.

The doors are the same. And something else I've noticed but the doors have that grey on them now which on unrefurbished trains is just a strip. Some kids were peeling it off of one of the refurbs the other day, found it quite amusing since underneath it was just the same old scruffy door with dirt lines going down of what looked to be dirty water. They didn't manage to peel it all off, but they managed to get about 1/5 of it off.

 

[Paul_10]

The doors are the same. And something else I've noticed but the doors have that grey on them now which on unrefurbished trains is just a strip. Some kids were peeling it off of one of the refurbs the other day, found it quite amusing since underneath it was just the same old scruffy door with dirt lines going down of what looked to be dirty water. They didn't manage to peel it all off, but they managed to get about 1/5 of it off.

You'd think they have something to do but such the minds of some people! Hopefully it will get painted over again though.

I do like the grey paint(?) applied to the doors, much better looking the unpainted metal previously and I am curious to know what is the thinking behind those grey stripes? I remember 4077 receiving orange stripes but these has been replaced with grey ones also.

 

[Scott M]

They basically haven't been refurbed, just a new lick of paint to fool the majority of people.

Worries me how tight money seems to be.