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Tyne & Wear Metro: Fleet Refurbishment List

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ModernRailways

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That said, there are plenty of things on the Metro that makes the trains untidy than advert cards!

That's true! Especially at night.

Just got back from London, and I do wonder how they keep their trains so clean. When you compare them to Metro the tube is spotless! Hardly any litter (yet there aren't many bins - newspapers tend to have disappeared with only the odd one or two still hanging around), and there isn't so much dirt on the floors! It makes me wonder just what are cleaners do on Metro, especially considering the tube has less turnaround than Metro does.
 
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MetroCar4058

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A very very busy weekend for Metro! With allot of the trains bound for South Hylton packed so much that the doors were unable to close and people couldn't get on! The Airshow has definatly brought havoc upon the network however it's been coping rather well, our train to airport was delayed 13 minutes and in that time they had positioned in a couple of relief trains running to Regent Centre although they weren't picking up from Sunderland so we had to wait - the train eventually came and it ended up terminating at Kingston park and although it was extremely busy staff managed to keep the trains flowing, especially through Seaburn.

Does anyone know how many extra trains Nexus put out yesterday? I suppose it's much harder to do so when it is running on NR lines
 

ModernRailways

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Does anyone know how many extra trains Nexus put out yesterday? I suppose it's much harder to do so when it is running on NR lines

None. Absolutely zilch. I wouldn't be surprised if Metro are scared of sets failing and wreaking more havok. Also, on a Saturday/Sunday there are more paths down Sunderland because there is less freight, and even then Metro can often get extra paths during concerts at Stadium of Light.

Seen a lot of people complaining on Twitter that the buses have been better/more reliable than Metro and that the Metro just hasn't done a thing to try and help the situation with staff being left to fend for themselves.
 

Kryten2340

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None. Absolutely zilch. I wouldn't be surprised if Metro are scared of sets failing and wreaking more havok. Also, on a Saturday/Sunday there are more paths down Sunderland because there is less freight, and even then Metro can often get extra paths during concerts at Stadium of Light.

Seen a lot of people complaining on Twitter that the buses have been better/more reliable than Metro and that the Metro just hasn't done a thing to try and help the situation with staff being left to fend for themselves.

I went down yesterday and got back to the metro station for around 5:15. It was an absolute shambles in terms of organisation. A lot of people (me included) decided to wait in the smaller queue for trains to Sunderland then cross platform and travel back to Newcastle from there. In my view there's nothing wrong with that and I'm entitled to do so as long as I hold a valid ticket. However the staff caught onto this and we're limiting access to the southbound platform to a point where one train left for Sunderland with hardly any people on. At one point the queues were back onto the main road (heard this from one of the staff) to a point where I think the BTP had to intervene and order the staff to let more people onto the platform.

I don't know this for a fact of course. Just putting two and two together based on the fact when I was on the platform there wasn't many allowed through but all of a sudden the BTP were on the platform and a lot more people allowed access to the platform.

I think there were a few extras put on as two trains headed down to Sunderland out of service, reversed and went back to Seaburn out of service and began there.
 
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ModernRailways

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I went down yesterday and got back to the metro station for around 5:15. It was an absolute chambles in terms of organisation. A lot of people (me included) decided to wait in the smaller queue for trains to Sunderland then cross platform and travel back to Newcastle from there. In my view there's nothing wrong with that and I'm entitled to do so as long as I hold a valid ticket. However the staff caught onto this and we're limiting access to the southbound platform to a point where one train left for Sunderland with hardly any people on. At one point the queues were back onto the main road (heard this from one of the staff) to a point where I think the BTP had to intervene and order the staff to let more people onto the platform.

If you had a valid ticket you should have been allowed. If you were stopped then a nice complaint (and possibly even a refund request because you weren't allowed to travel) are in order.

You could have also been heading to Sunderland for a Northern service, or for a bus from there.

I don't know this for a fact of course. Just putting two and two together based on the fact when I was on the platform there wasn't many allowed through but all of a sudden the BTP were on the platform and a lot more people allowed access to the platform.

It's as if the BTP are actually trained in order to handle these events unlike the Metro staff - I feel sorry for them, the majority looked clueless!

I think there were a few extras put on as two trains headed down to Sunderland out of service, reversed and went back to Seaburn out of service and began there.

Late runners more likely, there were quite a few sets which were running 10+ late upon leaving Airport after turning around. I believe one set was sent down as a spare in case a train failed or was required due to actual disruption but wasn't to be sent out otherwise.

The whole service is a complete shambles and the people running it really need to sort it out - Pah! Yeah right, like Sharon Kelly (sorry, Sharon Keith) is going to bother doing anything, nor Nexus who equally as bad, if not worse.
 

Paul_10

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There was extra services but perhaps not enough although of course as been mentioned, it does depend on how many extra sets Metro are allowed down the Sunderland line.

In terms of people heading onto the southbound platform so they can catch the train from an earlier stop than Seaburn then maybe there is nothing wrong with it but I do feel it would be easier and fairer to stay in the que where you actually going and if indeed you want to head to an earlier stop to avoid the ques then Stadium of Light Metro station is just a 10 min walk down the road.

It goes without question though there is bound to be some chaos with a lot of people travelling on the system at once but there was no major delays reported so whilst some trains were delayed, this was turned out to be expected and it would appear Metro handled it as well as it could of.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
You could have also been heading to Sunderland for a Northern service, or for a bus from there.

It's as if the BTP are actually trained in order to handle these events unlike the Metro staff - I feel sorry for them, the majority looked clueless!

Late runners more likely, there were quite a few sets which were running 10+ late upon leaving Airport after turning around. I believe one set was sent down as a spare in case a train failed or was required due to actual disruption but wasn't to be sent out otherwise.

The whole service is a complete shambles and the people running it really need to sort it out - Pah! Yeah right, like Sharon Kelly (sorry, Sharon Keith) is going to bother doing anything, nor Nexus who equally as bad, if not worse.

Well of course they would be "clueless" as they would not have the relevant experience to deal with such a huge amount of people day in day out but hey if one feels they can do a better job, why not apply?

And there was definate some extra sets out because when i was out today, I noticed a Regent Centre train appearing which appeared to of been an extra... how many extra trains they were I'm not sure(not that many I would imagine) but if you are only allowed a certain amount of extra trains out on the Sunderland line at once then only expect an extra train once in a while. I know when I went last year there was extra trains so no doubt it was the case this year.

I'm sorry for the defensive post but if people did not expect some inconvenience and disruption yesterday then I'm sorry but it would be naive to think that.
 

MetroCar4058

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Yes we did the good old Sunderland trick, although Metro officer complimented our idea, there was definitely extra sets out as one popped into Sunderland as NIS and left without loading (and a nice shout from the frustrated female driver)

To be fair I think Metro did alright, after-all they are stretched with only 82 MetroCars available (6 away 2 in maintenance?) and they had to maintain works to the Coast, Maybe they should have ran trains to South Gosforth instead of Monkseaton mind as I don't think the demand stretched so far along. It also doesn't help that they don't have exclusive rights to that end of the line and therefore they are limited to what they can send down there, maybe they could have put a few more trains on but those trains probably weren't available, or the staff for that matter.

I agree that the Metro Officers were very poor, they only seemed to know what to do when their assigned door was clear - Although nobody likes cramped conditions they should have crush loaded us in, it would have sped everything up and reduced delays as to be fair, by the time we got to Pelaw the train was at a normal peak time load.
 
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142094

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Should probably point a few things out here, seeing as there are quite a few incorrect statements going around.

Firstly, yes there were extra trains running yesterday. 141, 142, 143 and 144 were running between South Gosforth/Benton to Sunderland and back. The other thing to point out, which most people fail to realise is that there is only a certain amount of trains that can run on the Sunderland line. Not only is this due to pathings, which also have to include the Northern Rail, freight and Grand Central services, there is also a finite amount of Metro trains which can run due a maximum amount of current that can be drawn from the overhead wires. Too many trains in one section and the substation trips. Same as the circuit breakers in your house. Yes, there will have been spare sets at the depot due to it being a Saturday, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they are able to run (or indeed drivers were available to run them).

Second point, Metro staff have a lot of experience in dealing with large crowds. The Airshow weekend and GNR happen every year and are not exactly one off events. Plus, there are concerts and football matches throughout the year which also have crowd control. However, the general public do not help themselves. Why not travel down earlier in the day? Everyone knows that a lot of people go, and also the good weather will mean even more will want to travel down. Some of the trains early on in the morning around 9/10am were lightly loaded. In addition Northern were strengthening their services, most were 142+156 so plenty of room, but they were half full so obviously people do not plan ahead.

How many people do you want to let onto a platform as well? At the end of the day having a platform that is packed is an inherently bad idea and actually slows the whole process down. Takes longer for people to get off the train and there is always the risk of a crush, or people falling onto the track.

The fact of the matter is that Metro is no different to any other operator when faced with large crowds. London Underground is no better in dealing with large crowds IMO. There will always be a need for more rolling stock, more staff, longer platforms and more hours in the day but unfortunately you can't have everything.
 
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MetroCar4058

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4047 now has the annoying 'shovel man' as I now call him thankfully he either broke or was turned off at Regent Centre only 6 stops in from its start, by god they cannot use that man, but they have even changed the screens to match him now 'Next Station is Regent Centre, change here for local bus services. They need to also get rid of the level crossing announcement, its not a good idea to repeat something so long and tedious 12 times in 10 minutes and the masses seemed to agree with me as a few people were rolling their eyes and sniggering.

Its pathetic, sounds poor, is poor and brings a bad and fake view upon our lovely network and all the progress we are making.
 

Kite159

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Coming back from Newcastle towards Sunderland on Saturday (on the pacer from Carlisle), all I can say is blimey, those stations were busy, both with passengers and staff. The train which departed Sunderland around 12:30 was pretty rammed.

---

Off-topic, if I decided to have a T&W metro bash, on a Sunday, how long would it roughly take to cover everything?
 
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142094

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Off-topic, if I decided to have a T&W metro bash, on a Sunday, how long would it roughly take to cover everything?

Depends on how you would want to do it, and which station you'd want to start off with. If you started at St. James, takes around 50 minutes to get to South Gosforth. Change there for a train to the Airport, then cross over to the other platform to get the train back towards South Hylton. Stay on that train and return to Pelaw, change and go to South Shields. This would probably take 4 hours or so.

Timetable on a Sunday means that trains normally wait a lot longer at terminus stations. 15 minutes at St James, 19 minutes at the Airport, so you would need to factor this in.
 

MetroCar4058

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On a random note, will we ever see a day when the ticket barriers are armed most of the day and at least 5 members of staff aren't needed to watch people walk through them?

So far the barriers have been a waste of money, rarely used and when they are there are simply too many staff members there meaning others cannot be armed and to be fair half them don't have anything to do. Would it not be better to have 2 members of staff, one for ins one for outs as the ins officer would not be as busy as the outs they could handle the penalty fares?
 

ModernRailways

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On a random note, will we ever see a day when the ticket barriers are armed most of the day and at least 5 members of staff aren't needed to watch people walk through them?

So far the barriers have been a waste of money, rarely used and when they are there are simply too many staff members there meaning others cannot be armed and to be fair half them don't have anything to do. Would it not be better to have 2 members of staff, one for ins one for outs as the ins officer would not be as busy as the outs they could handle the penalty fares?

The barriers have been a success failure. Poor management by Nexus, and DB not hiring staff to man them has been ridiculous. Apparently, the reason for having multiple staff is because it's normal CSA's - the usual staff you would see in groups on trains - and as a result they must all stay together thus meaning that around 5 people are stood doing sweet f*** all and getting paid for it... This is where your Metro ticket price goes towards, CSA's standing on gatelines playing on their phones doing anything but work.

The aim was to have two staff members on each gateline for staff safety - should someone get aggressive having one member of staff would be dangerous. During the peaks more staff will be needed for the time being until people understand what to do, right now at the top of escalators it becomes a huge crush because cards are declined and people don't understand they can put their pass straight on after the person in front has touched. Everyone I've seen has waited until the barriers are closed again before touching.

Monument was the only exception to the two staff rule. Monument would have three staff manning the gates.

Also, saw the first person getting a penalty fare for not having touched in today. The suit was going absolutely nuts about it, arguing how he pays £X amount of money for a delayed, dirty service and new ticket machines that don't work.

I must say, the validators seem to be cheaply done. The amount of times I've had errors is ridiculous, likely to be around once a week. I either get a 'Couldn't read pass, please try again' or a 'You're pass is already in use' that last one is becoming more common and seems to be if you touch to quickly then the pass updates but the actual validator gets confused and just says 'Pass already in use' because it processed it too quickly. I've had this problem at the barriers too meaning I haven't been allowed through until I see someone, and boy do the staff make you feel like you're putting them out with the shrugs and sighs they give. Maybe I just get the grumpy one's, but the vast majority seem that way.
 
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142094

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I will be starting (and ending) from Newcastle station itself. Arriving at 12:37 and departing at 18:00

Probably best to get a train straight to the Airport. On a Sunday, the train you arrive on will sit in the platform for 19 minutes, but there should already be a train in on the opposite platform. I'd jump straight on this one and go back to South Gosforth. Here, change over to platform 2 and do the Coast loop. Once at St. James, to save time, walk to Monument (10 minutes tops) then catch a train south. Doesn't really matter if it is to South Shields or South Hylton, as they are both branches so might as well get the first train that arrives.

With a bit of planning you might also be able to get a Northern service back from Sunderland to Newcastle, or a trip on the Shields Ferry. An all zones Metro DaySaver is £4.50 and is valid on the Metro, the ferry and the Sunderland - Newcastle Northern services.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
On a random note, will we ever see a day when the ticket barriers are armed most of the day and at least 5 members of staff aren't needed to watch people walk through them?

So far the barriers have been a waste of money, rarely used and when they are there are simply too many staff members there meaning others cannot be armed and to be fair half them don't have anything to do. Would it not be better to have 2 members of staff, one for ins one for outs as the ins officer would not be as busy as the outs they could handle the penalty fares?

Having observed Monument during the rush hour, there is a definite need for a good 5 members of staff on the barriers.
 

MetroCar4058

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I agree at peak times extra staff are needed but why can't Nexus split up these CSA's? I know they are probably working hard half of the time but you never see them.

You often see a lone Metro officer wondering around the stations doing nothing. As you say they are miserable and rude with my worst experience being at Central when a female officer actually pushed me out of the way and said in a nasty tone 'Smart Card only' so to counter her I did ask when they were going to get their act together with the pop card.

As regards to the barrier themselves they are far too slow to open and people are poorly educated on how to use them. It really does infuriate me the amount of old people who kick off about the system not working when infact it is them as they are either putting the card on the screen instead of the reader or putting the paper receipt on, this could have been resolved one of two ways, spending the wasted money on the stupid Metro Ken builder man on leaflets to explain the smartcard system or getting the under 16 pop card to work 4 years ago when it came around (please pardon the ageist comment) as us younger kids understand and learn new technologies quicker than any other generation and then the pensioners would just follow after us so to say.

And finally to get back to the man being fined, I agree with it as in essence he does not have a valid ticket however his comments are rather distasteful as rarely are the trains unbearably filthy and one should expect to see a couple of bottles on the floor also punctuality isn't too bad from my point of view, although that could be because I don't use morning peak services.
 
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Kite159

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Probably best to get a train straight to the Airport. On a Sunday, the train you arrive on will sit in the platform for 19 minutes, but there should already be a train in on the opposite platform. I'd jump straight on this one and go back to South Gosforth. Here, change over to platform 2 and do the Coast loop. Once at St. James, to save time, walk to Monument (10 minutes tops) then catch a train south. Doesn't really matter if it is to South Shields or South Hylton, as they are both branches so might as well get the first train that arrives.

With a bit of planning you might also be able to get a Northern service back from Sunderland to Newcastle, or a trip on the Shields Ferry. An all zones Metro DaySaver is £4.50 and is valid on the Metro, the ferry and the Sunderland - Newcastle Northern services.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Thanks :)
Is the Airport station cross-platform interchange to get on the other train, or is it best to be in a certain part for a quick crossover?

The £4.50 ticket is the one I was planning to get
 

Jonny

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On a random note, will we ever see a day when the ticket barriers are armed most of the day and at least 5 members of staff aren't needed to watch people walk through them?

So far the barriers have been a waste of money, rarely used and when they are there are simply too many staff members there meaning others cannot be armed and to be fair half them don't have anything to do. Would it not be better to have 2 members of staff, one for ins one for outs as the ins officer would not be as busy as the outs they could handle the penalty fares?

One issue is that they cannot read National Rail tickets - even those that are valid on the Metro. This means that there has to be a member of staff there to check the tickets and open the gates manually.
 

ModernRailways

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I agree at peak times extra staff are needed but why can't Nexus split up these CSA's? I know they are probably working hard half of the time but you never see them.

You often see a lone Metro officer wondering around the stations doing nothing. As you say they are miserable and rude with my worst experience being at Central when a female officer actually pushed me out of the way and said in a nasty tone 'Smart Card only' so to counter her I did ask when they were going to get their act together with the pop card.

As regards to the barrier themselves they are far too slow to open and people are poorly educated on how to use them. It really does infuriate me the amount of old people who kick off about the system not working when infact it is them as they are either putting the card on the screen instead of the reader or putting the paper receipt on, this could have been resolved one of two ways, spending the wasted money on the stupid Metro Ken builder man on leaflets to explain the smartcard system or getting the under 16 pop card to work 4 years ago when it came around (please pardon the ageist comment) as us younger kids understand and learn new technologies quicker than any other generation and then the pensioners would just follow after us so to say.

And finally to get back to the man being fined, I agree with it as in essence he does not have a valid ticket however his comments are rather distasteful as rarely are the trains unbearably filthy and one should expect to see a couple of bottles on the floor also punctuality isn't too bad from my point of view, although that could be because I don't use morning peak services.

The CSA's can't be split up for various reasons. Mainly, right now they are in teams, so for example you may have a North, South, East, and West team - that's not how it actually is, just an example. Those teams must stay together and can't be split up because then they wouldn't be able to do any revenue work on trains as there wouldn't be enough. I believe each team must have 5 members and so because of the whole mismanagement of this 'project' those manning the barriers have to do so with the rest of their team. So say Paul in North team gets told to do barrier work at Four Lane Ends, that would mean every CSA in Paul's team is stuck doing barrier work for the duration Paul is there.

I've found the barriers to be quite responsive, but other times they just don't want to know. For example, I often touch out and if I'm with someone I'm stood waiting for them for a good 30 seconds because everyone is so slow. I walk toward the barrier touch my pass but just slow down my pace, most of the time I don't have to stop, but when I do it's usually because the barrier is faulty. I have been told by one old guy that I need to slow down otherwise I will break them - I dread to think how he would cope in London.

A lot of people simply haven't grasped the fact that if you keep going the barriers are actually really efficient. The problem is a lot of people stop, touch their card everywhere but the right location, and then when the barrier opens they walk through. I find it amusing how I can do it all in 5 seconds or so (if the barrier is working as it should) yet everyone else seems to take 20-30 seconds if not more!

You're right about the man being fined, but to me he has a valid pass. Most CSAs that I've spoken too have said they aren't going to PF people because the smart card system doesn't work. He's already paid his £1,000 for a yearly pass so should he forget to touch in, it shouldn't be a problem other than a telling off. A penalty fare is not the answer and will only result in people not having any trust in the smart card technology. I'll admit when I got my pass and the first time I used it the validator told me it wasn't valid I freaked, in the end I just didn't touch in, but how many others have been in that situation? As for train delays/cleanliness, trains are delayed quite often in the peak with trains just not showing at all on a very regular basis, there's almost always at least two peak extras which don't run. And the trains are scruffy, I've posted previously about it, but it's getting worse. The bars next to the doors are covered in dirt, running your finger across turns it black. Trains are supposedly undergoing their deep clean right now, I've seen one set which has looked like it's been deep cleaned, floors polished etc. and that's it.




Is the Airport station cross-platform interchange to get on the other train, or is it best to be in a certain part for a quick crossover?

The £4.50 ticket is the one I was planning to get

It's an island platform, so changing at Airport is fine - have a look on Google Images and I'm sure you can get a rough idea of the layout.
For a quick change at South Gosforth to head towards St James I'd suggest the front doors of the second carriage, so those closest to where the trains are coupled. Then it's just straight up and over the bridge to Platform 2.




P.S Could someone tell me whether people were supposed to actually be working at Jarrow the other day, the Platform was closed but their were no maintenance vans and no-one to be seen doing any work, there was work going on at Hebburn though. I don't mind anyway, it's forced me onto the bus which I much prefer since there's a lot nicer atmosphere on board whereas the Metro is very dark and doesn't exactly make you feel safe.
 
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MetroCar4058

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Maybe that's why I think they go too slow! I agree it only takes 5 seconds to go through but I think the gates opening it's a little delayed from when you 'feed it through'
 

Tramfan

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4043 went down for refurbishment yesterday and 4021 went last week. 4028 and 4036 should be the pair that returned.
 

Paul_10

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4043 went down for refurbishment yesterday and 4021 went last week. 4028 and 4036 should be the pair that returned.

I was wondering if any units have went down as I never really noticed any units missing from the system for a while(apart from 4040 but with it just recently a revised Emirates ad, i did thought it was unlikely it would of headed to Donny and its now back on the system) and I never seen 4036 on the system yet but that could just be down to luck though!

It is really interesting that there does seem to be a tendency of saving any advert liveries units from refurbishment at the moment which makes you wonder if the other 2 units not to be refurbished will be units that have got ad liveries, one to watch.

Regarding the cleanliness on the metro, too me the trains are alright but not great, the floors although improved still remains a constant problem(after a period during the spring, it does not appear they are not using the supershine stuff for the floors, instead it just looks like a simple wash) and the dust on the back of the seats where you sit on the single seats in particular are not nice too look at but in all fairness, the vast majority of passengers probably won't notice.
 

tez thorn

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I was just thinking the other day if any had units had came from and gone to to wabtec,but debated asking,i know

this might sound thiick,but does anyone know why on unrefurbed metrocars there are white panels on the cab,not

sure if its both cabs that have got them or if its just A end
 
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tjohnson86

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Worth noting that with 38 and 84, the east coast contract won't expire until November/December this year so both will remain in the north east until then at the earliest. I imagine 83 and 40 will also be amongst the last to go down, and nexus will probably want the final car to leave for Doncaster to be one of the special liveries also. It does seem a bit strange that so many advert liveries are being kept though, at this rate we'll have more advert liveries than red liveries before long!

In regards to what units will not be refurbished it would probably be better to speculate when only 10-15 non-refurbs remain, but it seems 83 is a possible candidate judging from what I've read. I imagine it'll be the 2 cars that have suffered the heaviest damage over the years and would cost the most to refurbish.
 

ModernRailways

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Don't know when this was filmed but absolutely disgusting and I hope the police catch him.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=517023471760663

Metro's Policing Unit already have it and are investigating.

As you say it's disgusting, but the worst part is he seems to have noticed he was being recorded but continued anyway. The fact that it was during the day when their likely would have been kids on board just makes it all the worse...
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Worth noting that with 38 and 84, the east coast contract won't expire until November/December this year so both will remain in the north east until then at the earliest. I imagine 83 and 40 will also be amongst the last to go down, and nexus will probably want the final car to leave for Doncaster to be one of the special liveries also. It does seem a bit strange that so many advert liveries are being kept though, at this rate we'll have more advert liveries than red liveries before long!

In regards to what units will not be refurbished it would probably be better to speculate when only 10-15 non-refurbs remain, but it seems 83 is a possible candidate judging from what I've read. I imagine it'll be the 2 cars that have suffered the heaviest damage over the years and would cost the most to refurbish.

It may be done on how damaged they have been in the past, but I really don't see that as to what will say which units go and which stay. I imagine the metrocars with the highest reliability will stay and those with low reliability will go. In all honesty, 4001 and 4002 seem to be the only cars that seem to be in good working order, obviously they are a bit vicious with the doors and they have an older feel to them, but with those exceptions they seem to be amongst the more reliable. I daily see at least one refurb with doors out of service, it's relatively rare though amongst unrefurb sets.
 

tez thorn

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to this day i still love 4001 for its originality,i havent seen it in ages tho, anyone know where it

is or what its paired with,i saw 4002 paired with 4077,to this day i still wish they hadnt

defaced 4002
 
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