Tyne & Wear Metro: Fleet Refurbishment List

[ModernRailways]

These trains will not be lasting the next ten years. In all reality, they are not lasting very long the minute.

Indeed, and I've spoken with someone from Nexus who claims they will be on their last legs in 2020 with service having to be reduced by 2025. Apparently, DB are pushing for new trains in 2017 to begin operation in 2019 otherwise they are walking away from the operation.

Are there any trains in other countries that we could end up having? I imagine most Metro's would have to either be converted to OHLE from third rail, or to Metro's electrical current. In fact, which Metro systems elsewhere use OHLE?
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Maybe not but lets be honest, most faults can be quickly fixed within the depot and despite all the moans on facebook, 90%(random high figure) of passengers who travel on the metro won't encounter any problems on the train they are on in a 1 month period.

Yes I am aware there are more trains withdrawn from service than the facebook page suggests but with decent maintenance then they should be okay for however long they are needed for.

I actually heard talk there could be yet another refurbishment for these units if for whatever funding is not required for a new fleet of trains/trams although obviously this is the last resort option.

It may well be a quick fix, but it's the knock on effect. I believe a train had a door fault a few weeks ago and caused some severe disruption because it was the peaks (+20 minutes wait for a train).

The only delays that get mentioned on Facebook are when there will be a delay/gap in the service of 15-30 minutes (minor), 30 minutes+ (severe), so if a train just goes out of service but there isn't any big delay then it goes without mention.

Another refurbishment!? I can imagine Nexus trying for it, but they won't manage it. It would probably work out cheaper to just get newer trains because the maintenance costs would be quite high since a lot of the parts will be old and some may be obsolete (there are probably parts like that now anyway!)

 

[markydh]

The only way NEXUS will be able to replace metro stock before 2020 is if they can convince central government to pay for them. New stock was always the final phase of the reinvigoration programme and that is unlikely to change.

 

[ModernRailways]

The only way NEXUS will be able to replace metro stock before 2020 is if they can convince central government to pay for them. New stock was always the final phase of the reinvigoration programme and that is unlikely to change.

It will have to be a way with outside funding, central Government won't fund it unless Nexus have a good, strong case.

It may well have been the final phase, but it's going to be needed before that.

I imagine DB may come up with an offer, as long as they get more control over the system/less Nexus interference.

 

[Loki]

EU funding?

 

[Olympian]

4083 colided with a double decker bus in its early days,wiped the bus out totally,no idea of the severity

Of its front end but some of it would of been taken away in its mid life refurbisment, search on google you

Will find it,you have to look hard though

https://www.flickr.com/photos/25854025@N03/6196273226/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/55727763@N02/5235205933/

 

[ModernRailways]

EU funding?

It's a possibility, albeit unlikely.

I was thinking though that DB may produce an offer though as long as they get a lot more control over the system.

I think one of the main problems with getting new trains, is the fact that Nexus would like a new depot too which rather increases costs. If however, they can get some decent second hand trains from elsewhere and keep using the current depot for the time being and put the second hand trains to use for 8-15 years then I can see that working but that's the only way.

As the lady in the travel shop said, there is little chance the trains will survive into the 2020's. They weren't built to be used for 40+ years and IIRC, they were built to last 30-35 years. As it stands Nexus want them running for 45 years! This refurbishment has been done on the cheap and as a result the trains will continue to struggle!

 

[MetroCar4058]

Talking of refurbs they all seem to retain 'BRRR doors closing' 4065 was using it today suggesting that it's there to use if needed,Itsw probably the same button layout but with the old door closing button now playing the 'dududdu' and timing, I saw her several more times during the day and she was back on dududu only when she had caught up with her schedule. The delay was due to a door fault at Bank Foot on 4047 which put her about 5 minutes behind however she remained in service

I really can't see second hand trains coming onto the metro firstly the conversion cost and then clearances in the tunnels.

 

[142094]

The door tones button is located on the radio panel and on the refurbished trains will have been removed in the A end cabs. However, if there are no spares then an old radio panel may be put in due to a fault. Also, most of the B end cabs have been untouched so will have the door tones button. As a result, probably out of habit, some drivers press them even though it is not required on the new refurbished cars.

 

[Tramfan]

4065 and 4047 are paired with the B end leading on both units, so that explains it.

I remember being on 4073 a while back and it played the "doors closing" message at one of stations instead of the beeps, and thinking back it was being driven by 4042 B end leading as well.

 

[Paul_10]

4065 and 4047 are paired with the B end leading on both units, so that explains it.

I remember being on 4073 a while back and it played the "doors closing" message at one of stations instead of the beeps, and thinking back it was being driven by 4042 B end leading as well.

I think the 'A' end cabs have them aswell as I'm sure I heard the same whilst on a refurbished unit with the A end leading.

Speaking of 4047, this unit has got the new male voice PA's whilst travelling on this unit last night so maybe all future refurbs will recieve these new announcements.

 

[142094]

I think the 'A' end cabs have them aswell as I'm sure I heard the same whilst on a refurbished unit with the A end leading.

This will only happen if it has been swapped at Gosforth - the spare radio panels have the door tones button on in case it has to be fitted to a non-Wabtec set.

The problem at the minute is the fact that the refurbished trains are failing at the same rate (if not higher) than the unrefurbished trains. I doubt very much if they will last another 10 years without the reliability going even further down.

 

[Kryten2340]

Slightly off topic but I was reading on the Facebook page earlier about someone complaining about the boards never working at South Shields. I presume this is because Shields is the terminating station so they will only ever show terminating as the train approaches as this is controlled by the route input into the train (at least I assume it is).

Now whilst it's been a while since I've been down there this got me thinking is it not possible for the driver to input the return route for St James whilst at Chichester so the boards at Shields show St James or would this prevent the train being able to access Shields in the first place.

 

[ModernRailways]

Slightly off topic but I was reading on the Facebook page earlier about someone complaining about the boards never working at South Shields. I presume this is because Shields is the terminating station so they will only ever show terminating as the train approaches as this is controlled by the route input into the train (at least I assume it is).

Now whilst it's been a while since I've been down there this got me thinking is it not possible for the driver to input the return route for St James whilst at Chichester so the boards at Shields show St James or would this prevent the train being able to access Shields in the first place.

Simply put. No.

The boards at South Shields could in practice display 'Terminates' like the boards at Pelaw do, and possibly with a little bit of coding have it so that all 'Terminates' instead say 'Newcastle', but what happens when a train is actually terminating and going Out of Service?

They could maybe say 'Check station posters for train times' but who would, especially since they are outside of the barriers.

It's a non-issue really. Unless of course the boards aren't displaying anything (including platform closures, modernisation work etc.) in which case they need to be sorted. I know Jarrows boards often don't display anything so maybe it's a common problem along this section as Hebburn also has the same problem.

 

[MetroCar4058]

Speaking of 4047, this unit has got the new male voice PA's whilst travelling on this unit last night so maybe all future refurbs will recieve these new announcements.

Thank god I got on 65 then! I hate the bloke.

Today I saw one of the most ridiculous things I've ever seen on the network, some idiotic man holding the doors with his foot for a good minute for some people to catch up with him and get on, the driver was tooting the horn and then at the next station, Longbenton they got off as the driver was waiting, possibly for revenue officers to come and get him, so they bloody should as well! Its dangerous, causes delays (stealing what the announcement says) and leads to trains being took out of service due to door fault, which seems to be ever so common, I wouldn't be surprised if he was the same man being vocal on social media over withdrawals from service due to doors failing

On another note I've got a bone to pick with Nexus, I spoke to a ticket machine engineer when he was at Bank Foot over the smartcard reader not working for a good 2 weeks, which was now over 3 weeks ago and its still not been fixed!

 

[ModernRailways]

Thank god I got on 65 then! I hate the bloke.

You aren't the only one. The amount of complaints I have seen on Twitter about him is way too high!

On another note I've got a bone to pick with Nexus, I spoke to a ticket machine engineer when he was at Bank Foot over the smartcard reader not working for a good 2 weeks, which was now over 3 weeks ago and its still not been fixed!

I wouldn't expect that to be fixed any time soon! The validator on Jarrow platform 1 was out of action for around 2 months. It was display 'Out of Order' for around 3 days, then it went back to the 'normal' screen, but wouldn't register when you touched on it. This whole smart ticketing is a complete farce, and I dread to think how much money has been wasted on fixing things that have went wrong.

 

[142094]

Slightly off topic but I was reading on the Facebook page earlier about someone complaining about the boards never working at South Shields. I presume this is because Shields is the terminating station so they will only ever show terminating as the train approaches as this is controlled by the route input into the train (at least I assume it is).

Now whilst it's been a while since I've been down there this got me thinking is it not possible for the driver to input the return route for St James whilst at Chichester so the boards at Shields show St James or would this prevent the train being able to access Shields in the first place.

Station indicators go off a route code that is put into the radio. In most cases, the radio code is changed at the station before the terminating point, except for Pelaw and Regent Centre when the train is going into the sidings. South Shields and South Hylton seem to be the only two stations where for some reason this does not work. Indeed at South Hylton, it only changes from 'Terminates' to Airport when the train is half way along the platform. Not sure but might be something to do with only a single platform whereas Airport and St. James there is a choice of platforms the train can go into.

This is the same reason why at stations such as Regent Centre, South Gosforth, Pelaw etc. the platform displays can show next train being as 'X' minutes, but then a Pelaw/Regent Centre/Monkseaton train magically appears. A train will only show up when the driver has input the radio code, and has pressed a 'ready to start' button.

 

[MetroCar4058]

I wouldn't expect that to be fixed any time soon! The validator on Jarrow platform 1 was out of action for around 2 months. It was display 'Out of Order' for around 3 days, then it went back to the 'normal' screen, but wouldn't register when you touched on it. This whole smart ticketing is a complete farce, and I dread to think how much money has been wasted on fixing things that have went wrong.

It was one on the ticket machine though! Which I need to use to get my ticket, so lets hope the other one doesn't go tech. I know the smart system has been a total flop, wasn't the under 16 pop card meant to go paperless a couple of years ago? Yet the excuse is 'Its the bus they haven't got the technology'

 

[ModernRailways]

It was one on the ticket machine though! Which I need to use to get my ticket, so lets hope the other one doesn't go tech. I know the smart system has been a total flop, wasn't the under 16 pop card meant to go paperless a couple of years ago? Yet the excuse is 'Its the bus they haven't got the technology'

Oh, of course! They gave me a free Under 16 Pop Card for all of one year and never once did I do anything 'smart' with it!

Buses do have the technology which is the strange thing. The Under 16 (U16) Pop Card should work just as a regular Pay-as-you-go Pop Card does only it charges child fares, and caps at the U16 rate.



Well, tonight was eventful. The refurb I was on had a door fault. A cab door fault. Turns out the door was starting to come off it's hinge (or something like that, I couldn't see clearly as I was sitting behind the drivers cab), driver managed to get it closed by putting a load of 'Out of Order' stickers down it to keep it on.

And what is it with adverts coming down? I've never seen it happen on the older sets (with the exception of once, where they had all been removed and torn up) but on the refurbs it seems to be happening on every train!

Finally, does anyone know what they were supposed to be doing at Hebburn this evening as there was no-one there when we went past at 22:40 and 23:25

 

[MetroCar4058]

Yeah I agree with you on the adverts! and I think I was on that set earlier in the day with the door falling off as someone came on with some out of order stickers.

A funny experience on the way back from Tynemouth today, 4022 was just throwing lots of random announcements at us, she clearly was a bit lost lol - When the cars don't have any PA aids and no fail signs such as 'Nexus Metro A Lk' does it mean the driver hasn't set it up or has the volume on, i've noticed this to be very common in the leading car on trains to St James.

 

[142094]

A funny experience on the way back from Tynemouth today, 4022 was just throwing lots of random announcements at us, she clearly was a bit lost lol - When the cars don't have any PA aids and no fail signs such as 'Nexus Metro A Lk' does it mean the driver hasn't set it up or has the volume on, i've noticed this to be very common in the leading car on trains to St James.

Just means that there is a fault on the link through the train, so the error message is displayed (can also show Nexus Metro B Lk). As far as I know volume is preset at the depot, and the driver has little input. Same as the saloon heating.

 

[Paul_10]

And what is it with adverts coming down? I've never seen it happen on the older sets (with the exception of once, where they had all been removed and torn up) but on the refurbs it seems to be happening on every train!

Happens every summer when there is warm weather and the windows are open, the way the windows are designed, the strong breezes heads upwards towards the advert cards so they start to become loose and in some cases fly off quite spectacularly. Its amusing when one does fly off too see passengers looking puzzled and don't really know what to do with them but i believe the holders that are used are just the same as on the unrefurbished sets so its just a coincidence that it happens on every refurbished train.

One solution will be to create hopper windows(i.e you don't have to open a window to allow air in) and i'm sure this was once trialed on a metrocar during the last refurbishment but it was unsuccessful.

Regarding the platform indicators at Shields, maybe it was just broken when that facebook person reported it? Those 'newer' ones that have been installed at stations like Hebburn, Jarrow etc have had the same problems since they been put in(which has been years now), really surprised the problems have not been sorted yet.

I don't mind too much about the next station announcements, there was a lot of complaints about the female one but as with everything new in life, you get used to it and the complaints will drop. It is a tad disapointing after my initial thoughts that the announcements could not be better constructed considering its an actual person doing them.

 

[MetroCar4058]

Just means that there is a fault on the link through the train, so the error message is displayed (can also show Nexus Metro B Lk). As far as I know volume is preset at the depot, and the driver has little input. Same as the saloon heating.

What I meant was if that isn't displaying does it mean there is no fault :P

I don't mind too much about the next station announcements, there was a lot of complaints about the female one but as with everything new in life, you get used to it and the complaints will drop. It is a tad disapointing after my initial thoughts that the announcements could not be better constructed considering its an actual person doing them.

I agree, the quality is very poor but even looking at the design of it, it is awful. Who thought having 'Please take extra care when using the level crossing' played 3 times for one station is a good idea when there is 4 level crossings in a row meaning poor me feels like running on the crossing by the time hes got to his station. His tone and pitch is just too annoying - I rather like our woman to be fair.

 

[ModernRailways]

Happens every summer when there is warm weather and the windows are open, the way the windows are designed, the strong breezes heads upwards towards the advert cards so they start to become loose and in some cases fly off quite spectacularly. Its amusing when one does fly off too see passengers looking puzzled and don't really know what to do with them but i believe the holders that are used are just the same as on the unrefurbished sets so its just a coincidence that it happens on every refurbished train.

One solution will be to create hopper windows(i.e you don't have to open a window to allow air in) and i'm sure this was once trialed on a metrocar during the last refurbishment but it was unsuccessful.

It's been happening more recently, but it's been happening for a while now. Also, if it was down to the windows then surely it would affect the unrefurb units just as much?

Regarding the platform indicators at Shields, maybe it was just broken when that facebook person reported it? Those 'newer' ones that have been installed at stations like Hebburn, Jarrow etc have had the same problems since they been put in(which has been years now), really surprised the problems have not been sorted yet.

Surprised they haven't been sorted? This is Nexus we are talking about here

I don't mind too much about the next station announcements, there was a lot of complaints about the female one but as with everything new in life, you get used to it and the complaints will drop. It is a tad disapointing after my initial thoughts that the announcements could not be better constructed considering its an actual person doing them.

You know, I quite liked the woman from the start. She was a bit annoying but that was because we went from no announcements to announcements. To me she has a lot more of a proper feel. I prefer a more robotic, clear voice than someone who is trying to put a posh Geordie accent on, and reading from a script in a Geordie accent doesn't work at all! Why Nexus couldn't get one of the people LUL use, or just keep the current ones is beyond me. Now for a rather sexist comment, but I think woman do the best announcements, they have a softer tone whilst being clear, and not sounding forced.

 

[tjohnson86]

Not sure all refurbs are getting the male announcer straight away because 4051 doesn't have them as far as I'm aware. Will be interesting to see if 64 still has the male announcements when it re-enters passenger service. I've only experienced the male announcement for one 2-stop journey so can't really give an opinion on him yet though.

 

[142094]

What I meant was if that isn't displaying does it mean there is no fault :P

If nothing at all is displayed, it could be

- Switched off
- Switched off due to a fault
- Fault with the screen so does not show anything
- Fault with the actual system, i.e. GPS not working, wrong code input etc.

 

[MetroCar4058]

If nothing at all is displayed, it could be

- Switched off
- Switched off due to a fault
- Fault with the screen so does not show anything
- Fault with the actual system, i.e. GPS not working, wrong code input etc.

Oh cheers, so there is a few things it could be.

Today I was on a Regent short work and a man didn't notice the train had terminated so got stuck - the driver then let him out through the cab (lucky) I don't think the short works terminating at Regent are timed well mind, they delay the airport train most of the time as there is only a 2 minute gap between them. It would be nice if Nexus could get an extra man down at the short works terminus' to check the back car and the driver could then check the front, speeding the process up dramatically.

 

[Paul_10]

Not sure all refurbs are getting the male announcer straight away because 4051 doesn't have them as far as I'm aware. Will be interesting to see if 64 still has the male announcements when it re-enters passenger service. I've only experienced the male announcement for one 2-stop journey so can't really give an opinion on him yet though.

Oddly enough, 4064 has got the female announcements again when I caught it today. Wonder if they somehow got swop around with 4047 or something?

I also hope someone will turn the heating off on 64 also, thank goodness we are not experiencing the high temperatures other places are.

 

[Clip]

And what is it with adverts coming down? I've never seen it happen on the older sets (with the exception of once, where they had all been removed and torn up) but on the refurbs it seems to be happening on every train!

Its the card they are now using is thinner than it used to be so it is not as rigid and then warps easier and then falls out of its holding(if theyre still the same holdings as on LUL/DLR and that where they slide in. Pain in the neck.

 

[ModernRailways]

Its the card they are now using is thinner than it used to be so it is not as rigid and then warps easier and then falls out of its holding(if theyre still the same holdings as on LUL/DLR and that where they slide in. Pain in the neck.

That would explain it then. Stupid change and just makes the place look untidy.

 

[Paul_10]

The holdings look exactly the same too me and I honestly don't see the difference between the refurbished sets and the unrefurbished ones that if they become loose with the strong winds, they will start to hang off and eventually fly off.

Its just a matter of luck of if/when they fly off! That said, there are plenty of things on the Metro that makes the trains untidy than advert cards!