Tyne Valley Line

[sprinterguy]

The 'normal' Connect is via the coast, but it looks like there will be an early morning peak service (or 2) going up the ECML. There is much speculation elsewhere as to whether this will run via Darlington or direct up the currently freight only line from Stockton to the ECML.

As glbotu says, publically reported consensus on the Middlesbrough - Newcastle "Northern Connect" services is that they will all be running via Durham: There will not be an additional hourly service via the Durham Coast route, regrettably, though I appreciate that avoiding the route results in a faster end to end journey time and serves a potentially lucrative intermediate market, Durham (and potentially Darlington, too).
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It will be interesting to see how they space the two services, the fasts are going to be significantly quicker than the stoppers, so we could end up with the two trains per hour but 10 mins apart (like the TP situation in Liverpool). A sensible approach would be to time them so that they are 30 mins apart at Hexham, so the imbalance at journey’s ends are not too great.

I don't envisage a great deal of retiming going on, personally, and think it more likely that we'll see arrivals and departures at Carlisle within 10 - 15 minutes of each other. As the only intermediate shared stop of the two services between Hexham and Carlisle is likely to be Haltwhistle, it has less of an impact if they don't run at even intervals to each other.

Such an arrangement also leaves free a greater portion of the hour to path any freight services that there are.

 

[urbophile]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark62 View Post
Well The shareholders will be rubbing their hands at the thought of the state handouts they will be getting
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott M View Post
But then again I didn't expect any different under a Tory government
Why do you both need to bring politics into it?

Possibly because we are discussing a national rail service which depends on political decisions.

 

[6Gman]

Class 158s are basically glorified Pacers and we used to have class 158s down here anyway, so can't really call regressing and then returning to the previous level an "improvement".

But then again I didn't expect any different under a Tory government. Perish the thought a line down south would be running pacers in this day and age and be given class 158s as an "improvement".

158s are not glorified Pacers. There is at least one fundamental, crucial and obvious difference (try counting the number of wheels).

There are Pacers "down south" and, yes, they operate in Conservative constituencies.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark62 View Post
Well The shareholders will be rubbing their hands at the thought of the state handouts they will be getting
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott M View Post
But then again I didn't expect any different under a Tory government
Why do you both need to bring politics into it?

Possibly because we are discussing a national rail service which depends on political decisions.

On the other hand, Arriva has no shareholders ... and it's a Tory government which has finally signed off a Northern franchise which gets shot of Pacers.

p.s. I am not a Tory.

 

[HSTEd]

On the other hand, Arriva has no shareholders ... and it's a Tory government which has finally signed off a Northern franchise which gets shot of Pacers.

p.s. I am not a Tory.

Arriva has precisely one shareholder - Deutsche Bahn (unless it is a company limited guarantee which is functionally the same thing in this instance).

As to the Conservative Party getting shot of pacers.... that hasn't been demonstrated yet.

If passenger growth on the network keeps going it ain't over yet.

 

[D6975]

Middlesbrough - Newcastle is definitely going half hourly with alternate services being Connects during the day,
From the DFT website

Middlesbrough to Newcastle

The benefits are:

there will be a half-hourly service between Middlesbrough, Stockton and Newcastle, providing 30 trains per day in each direction. The current service is generally hourly
at least 10 services per day will be Northern Connect services, operated by fully-refurbished, air conditioned Class 158 trains
today’s service levels will be preserved at intermediate stations, but with earlier first trains and later last trains along the route

 

[markydh]

Yes, one via Stillington and the other via the coast.

 

[Roose]

The (north Cumbria-based) News and Star is reporting that new trains will be used between Newcastle and Carlisle on the ten daily Northern Connect Services following a meeting between Alex Hynes and the Settle and Carlisle groups.

I wonder if this is a result of the reporter or a correspondent from the S&C lot picking him up incorrectly? The DfE interactive map says that "a minimum of 10 services each way will operate as “Northern Connect” services, operated by fully refurbished trains".

All trains on the route will ultimately, of course, have been refurbished as a franchise commitment with 28 services in total between Carlisle and Newcastle, 13 more than at present. Perhaps the sets to operate the Northern Connect services will have received an enhanced level of refurbishment although I am not aware that the Northern Connect vehicles will necessarily be of a higher standard than those refurbished.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

158s are not glorified Pacers. There is at least one fundamental, crucial and obvious difference (try counting the number of wheels).

Bogies?....

 

[Tetchytyke]

The (north Cumbria-based) News and Star is reporting that new trains will be used between Newcastle and Carlisle on the ten daily Northern Connect Services following a meeting between Alex Hynes and the Settle and Carlisle groups.

I wonder if this is a result of the reporter or a correspondent from the S&C lot picking him up incorrectly?

I doubt they misheard him, Alex Hynes is a great PR man and will say whatever he thinks he wants people to hear. He's not so hot at walking the walk, but never mind that.

I don't expect the 195s to operate the Tyne Valley, it'll be refurbished 158s. What will run over the S&C is probably a bit more open to negotiation.

 

[DarloRich]

What will run over the S&C is probably a bit more open to negotiation.

steam hauled class 442?

The 158's seem about right for that route and given a Scotrail style internal overhaul they would be perfect. Coupled with the Friends of the S&C trolley you would have a really nice train!

 

[Tetchytyke]

The 158's seem about right for that route and given a Scotrail style internal overhaul they would be perfect.

Agreed, I was more wondering whether some of the 158s would be staying at Neville Hill or whether they'd all be moving to pastures new. The Tyne Valley is operated from Heaton but the S&C is operated from Leeds.

 

[cuccir]

As glbotu says, publically reported consensus on the Middlesbrough - Newcastle "Northern Connect" services is that they will all be running via Durham: There will not be an additional hourly service via the Durham Coast route, regrettably, though I appreciate that avoiding the route results in a faster end to end journey time and serves a potentially lucrative intermediate market, Durham (and potentially Darlington, too).

From a Durham City perspective, that's really quite a big win. Middlesbrough and the Metrocentre are fairly important regional destinations, and cutting journeys by about a quarter + the increased ease of direct trains will be popular. A direct service to Carlisle would open up more leisure travel options as well to Northumberland, Cumbria and North Yorkshire.

 

[142094]

Interesting that they will be running trains via the Stillington line, assumed that it would have been express via Darlington. Wonder if Durham County Council would press for some new stations/station reopenings.

 

[lejog]

From a Durham City perspective, that's really quite a big win. Middlesbrough and the Metrocentre are fairly important regional destinations, and cutting journeys by about a quarter + the increased ease of direct trains will be popular. A direct service to Carlisle would open up more leisure travel options as well to Northumberland, Cumbria and North Yorkshire.

Just to point out that the services may not call at Durham. In the published TSRs Northern are contractually obliged to provide only the following services to/from Durham and Chester-le-street.

From Darlington to Newcastle : One service before 7am.
From (unspecified) to Newcastle: Two services between 7am and 10am.
From Newcastle to Darlington: One service after 10pm.

 

[142094]

Stopping at Durham would bring in a bit more revenue for Northern under ORCATS so would be a strange one to pass through.

 

[lejog]

Stopping at Durham would bring in a bit more revenue for Northern under ORCATS so would be a strange one to pass through.

Sorry if I've missed this, but has there been a definite announcement from Northern that the trains will be routed via Durham? I see there are still conflicting posts on this thread about the route to be taken.

There's certainly no hint in the TSRs. Yes from 2019 there is to be an hourly Middlesbrough to Newcastle train which must call at Stockton (as a minimum), but that doesn't define a route.

 

[Anvil1984]

Sorry if I've missed this, but has there been a definite announcement from Northern that the trains will be routed via Durham? I see there are still conflicting posts on this thread about the route to be taken.

There's certainly no hint in the TSRs. Yes from 2019 there is to be an hourly Middlesbrough to Newcastle train which must call at Stockton (as a minimum), but that doesn't define a route.

The description under the Northern Connect map states Middlesbrough - Durham - Newcastle - Carlisle. It's pretty obvious it's going via Stillington from all the information but some people on here are attempting to muddy the waters

 

[backontrack]

I don't understand what the issue about a class 158 train is. Calling it a "glorified Pacer" is ludicrous.

But you can't deny that they date back to 1989.

 

[43074]

But you can't deny that they date back to 1989.

Age is irrelevant as far as the quality of rolling stock is concerned, as already pointed out on this thread the 158s are very solid regional trains and will certainly be an improvement on what the Tyne Valley gets now. Most people don't care about the age of the train anyway, you can do wonders with a decent refurbishment.

 

[DarloRich]

But you can't deny that they date back to 1989.

so? The HST dates back to about 1726

 

[156443]

The Class 43's were built between 1975-82 and the Class 91's between 1988-91 and they've been refurbished probably quite a few times and don't look their age


Sent from my iPad Pro using Tapatalk

 

[sprinterguy]

Perhaps the sets to operate the Northern Connect services will have received an enhanced level of refurbishment although I am not aware that the Northern Connect vehicles will necessarily be of a higher standard than those refurbished.

Northern themselves have stated that the 158s being refurbished to "Northern Connect" standard will be "enhanced for comfort" compared to the standard level of refurbishment, which will already include WiFi, fully accessible toilets, LED lighting, forward-facing CCTV, customer information and driver advisory systems.

(See the sidebar column on page 11, here):
https://issuu.com/smithdavispress/docs/2016_april_____proudnorthern_-_page/11
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The Class 43's were built between 1975-82 and the Class 91's between 1988-91 and they've been refurbished probably quite a few times and don't look their age

The 225 sets have been refurbished once, and are currently being refreshed under Virgin. I agree that a good refurbishment makes all the difference to the publics' perception, though.
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The (north Cumbria-based) News and Star is reporting that new trains will be used between Newcastle and Carlisle on the ten daily Northern Connect Services following a meeting between Alex Hynes and the Settle and Carlisle groups.

I wonder if this is a result of the reporter or a correspondent from the S&C lot picking him up incorrectly? The DfE interactive map says that "a minimum of 10 services each way will operate as “Northern Connect” services, operated by fully refurbished trains".

It's interesting to note that there isn't a direct quote from Alex Hynes in that article that states that new trains will be used on the route. I would be highly surprised if Northern changed their stated rolling stock strategy from refurbished 158s based on one user group meeting.

 

[lejog]

The description under the Northern Connect map states Middlesbrough - Durham - Newcastle - Carlisle. It's pretty obvious it's going via Stillington from all the information but some people on here are attempting to muddy the waters

Ah ok, thanks. But its still interesting that they have no contractual obligation to route it that way. While I am hardly an expert on such matters, is it possible that a path has yet to be agreed with Network Rail and that other TOCs may oppose this service on ORCATS and performance grounds?

It would be stupid to sign up to provide a service in a contract that a third party prevents you from providing.

 

[Roose]

Northern themselves have stated that the 158s being refurbished to "Northern Connect" standard will be "enhanced for comfort" compared to the standard level of refurbishment, which will already include WiFi, fully accessible toilets, LED lighting, forward-facing CCTV, customer information and driver advisory systems.

(See the sidebar column on page 11, here):
https://issuu.com/smithdavispress/docs/2016_april_____proudnorthern_-_page/11

Interesting. Thank you.

In effect a NC sub-fleet of 158s.

It's interesting to note that there isn't a direct quote from Alex Hynes in that article that states that new trains will be used on the route. I would be highly surprised if Northern changed their stated rolling stock strategy from refurbished 158s based on one user group meeting.

Indeed. Particularly since it wasn't even the user group for that line.

No doubt at that meeting the Settle-Carlisle folk will have been pushing for special treatment in terms of stock. I wonder why they haven't gone down the route of trying to find a partner for Open Access tourist services for the line or even for their requested service off the line to Manchester via Blackburn for which there must be tens of potential customers between the Eden Valley and Hellifield.

 

[FQTV]

Interesting that they will be running trains via the Stillington line, assumed that it would have been express via Darlington. Wonder if Durham County Council would press for some new stations/station reopenings.

In order for this to happen, someone would have to explain what a railway is to DCC, and then further explain that they've proven to be quite useful and that, broadly speaking, the rest of the country has been finding that they're quite popular.

Ideally, this should be done before the drinks cabinet is cracked open at Aykley Heads each day. Any time before the Today Programme ends should be fine.

 

[SteveP29]

Ideally, this should be done before the drinks cabinet is cracked open at Aykley Heads each day. Any time before the Today Programme ends should be fine.

Hopefully those imbeciles won't have access to the drinks cabinet at Aykley Heads (or wherever they decide to relocate County Hall to) for much longer. Hopefully the disgraceful shenanigans over the closure of the DLI museum will see that those people are removed from council as soon as is possible in the council elections next year

 

[142094]

In order for this to happen, someone would have to explain what a railway is to DCC, and then further explain that they've proven to be quite useful and that, broadly speaking, the rest of the country has been finding that they're quite popular.

Same could be said of some of the other north east councils as well. Hopefully Northumberland will get passenger trains to Ashington in the near future, but like anything it should have been reopened ages ago.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Councils don't have the money anymore. Northumberland CC have been cutting evening buses left, right and centre; the last bus from here to Whitley Bay is now 8pm. In this context the railway's going to struggle to get funding.

It'll be interesting if the trains go up the Stillington Line.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

so? The HST dates back to about 1726

Now then, let us keep a little perspective....
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Same could be said of some of the other north east councils as well. Hopefully Northumberland will get passenger trains to Ashington in the near future, but like anything it should have been reopened ages ago.

And then on to Newbiggin-by-the-Sea to really show that branch line has fully reopened.

 

[ItsGrimUpNorth]

The (north Cumbria-based) News and Star is reporting that new trains will be used between Newcastle and Carlisle on the ten daily Northern Connect Services following a meeting between Alex Hynes and the Settle and Carlisle groups.

I wonder if this is a result of the reporter or a correspondent from the S&C lot picking him up incorrectly?

RMT soon got on the case - http://www.rmt.org.uk/news/rmt-calls-for-assurances-on-deutsche-bahn-arriva-north/

Then the News & Star followed up today - http://www.newsandstar.co.uk/news/-...boss--05dde5ea-4f1c-47bb-aa2c-14eb4f00a407-ds

Much laughter from many!