Tyne Tees Express

[AutoKratz]

I’ve just been looking at the Tyne Tees Express article on Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TyneTees_Express). I was wondering if this is feasible at all?

There is a lot to consider including the Leamside Line and passenger demand. I think it would provide a great link between the major areas in the North East. Due to the ECML capacity issues in the area, there’s no way a service could run via the ECML and then through Darlington to Middlesbrough from Newcastle as suggested as an alternative to Leamside.

The only rail link currently is the Durham Coast line using ancient 142s with extremely slow speed and journey times. It’s no wonder a quick trip down the A19 is a popular alternative. Is Tyne Tees Express a viable new line?

 

[142094]

I certainly do think this is feasible, especially since Washington is one of the largest towns in the UK without a rail link at present.

I was at a meeting on Thursday gone, about the Keep Metro Public campaign which is now trying to set up a public voice for all transport in Tyne and Wear. A few people suggested expanding the Metro from South Hylton to Washington and a loop to Pelaw. However I'm against this as:

a) Light rail is meant for urban areas, whereas apart from Washington, that area isn't greatly populated

b) Would mean spreading the current Metro fleet even thinner in the Sunderland area, so less trains per hour

Ideally what I would like to see is either something like the Tyne Tees Express project or something similar, such as a loop, including the normal service Newcastle - Hartlepool - Middlesbrough, and a Newcastle - Washington - Darlington line, which could be a figure of eight on its side if a local service was run along the ECML from Newcastle to Darlington. Both would greatly benefit those in Washington and also relieve overcrowding on the morning and evening peak services to and from Chester-le-Street, Durham and Darlington. Plus it would be also beneficial to speed up the Durham Coast line as well, which should be possible, especially when you think of the investment in the new signalling. Newcastle to Middlesbrough should be able to have a journey time of under an hour by train.

Of course this would mean investment, and the money does not seem to be forthcoming. Plus we'd need more rolling stock to get to Washington. As you say the Leamside line would be an important diversion route for the ECML in addition to the Durham Coast line.

However under the plans for the Tees Metro project, they are not even asking for new stock, they are looking at replacing the 142s with 156s on the Bishop Auckland - Darlington - Saltburn services, which is hardly a big step forward. So I'd be very surprised if they would fund even just a link to Washington at the minute.

 

[PinzaC55]

A while before the election it was announced that "they" were looking at extending the Metro from Hylton to Washington and reopening the Leamside line. I think it was just a vote catcher and the "no money" excuse will be used to kill it - if that hasn't already happened.

 

[142094]

It would make sense just to reopen the line to have an extra route for diversions and take some of the freight off from between Newcastle and Darlington. So when you add on the fact that a few stations on the line would be very well used, it is a non brainer. Hopefully in a few years money will be found.

 

[PinzaC55]

You have to remember that under the current privatised regime users of the line are expected to pay for it's reopening and electrification if that happened. Which freight user will pay the huge cost of reopening? Some of the track is missing, there's no signalling, no barriers on the level crossings and the track cushions will need replacing.

 

[Darandio]

The re-opening of the Leamside has been talked about for years, even on my dads final years on the railway in the mid to late 90's. They even talked about re-opening Ferryhill Station for a few years, petitions were done and it was looking like a serious proposition.

I cant help but thinking that if this had been "down south" or even in Scotland, this would have been given more serious thought and not just a few ideas on paper that get re-issued every 2-3 years to try and swing the vote. Paths in County Durham are tight as it is and even an initial freight only re-opening of the Leamside makes perfect sense.

 

[142094]

You have to remember that under the current privatised regime users of the line are expected to pay for it's reopening and electrification if that happened. Which freight user will pay the huge cost of reopening? Some of the track is missing, there's no signalling, no barriers on the level crossings and the track cushions will need replacing.

It could be done with either public or private money, and I'm fairly sure that it meets all the cost - benefit calculations for public money to be spent on it. Might be an attractive venture for a new operating company who could build the stations and run the line for 25-50 years or so.

 

[swt_passenger]

The ECML RUS of a couple of years back turned down the Leamside reopening, but there has been another ECML 2016 Capacity Review just issued for consultation by NR last week, that brings the Leamside line back into play. Even talks about passenger trains on the Stillington route...

 

[sprinterguy]

The 2016 capacity review makes for interesting reading. I'm pleased to see that it gives the opportunity for a much more integrated north east rail network. I'm most intrigued though by the talk of procuring 9 additional carriages of class 170 specification to reduce Middlesborough to Newcastle overcrowding: So 3x3 car 172s for the Durham Coast route! Shame that it is unlikely to gain DfT approval. Although in 2016 there will be a completely different economic climate, and quite possibly a completely different government, so you never know. Although it is a little disappointing that over the course of the next decade, the north east coast region is only expected to see a maximum of NINE new carriages...

It would be great to see the Leamside line reopened, rail access from Washington to the likes of Newcastle or other destinations would be of great benefit to the locals, and could also serve as an excellent freight corridor to reduce congestion on the ECML. I'd suggest a Newcastle-Washington-Darlington service, as mentioned above, would have most merit. It could even be possible to extend the service round to Stockton and Hartlepool (Which would cater for two largely seperate traffic flows mind, perhaps better to keep the two seperate). Newcastle-Washington-Ferryhill-Stillington-Stockton-Middlesborough, as suggested by the Tyne-Tees report, could have potential as well, but I'd prefer the Darlington idea.

 

[142094]

It would be quite easy to have a circular route Newcastle - Washington - Darlington - Durham - Newcastle, and then even another circular route Newcastle - Washington - Ferryhill - Stillington branch - Middlesbrough - Hartlepool - Sunderland - Newcastle. Looking at most of the Local Transport Plans for the different councils in the region, the reopening of the Leamside line looks to be high on the agenda, but of course there is either a lack of money or lack of will in Network Rail/DfT.

 

[ainsworth74]

Just reading through the ECML 2016 review and got to section 3.4.1 Passenger aspirations on of the suggested is 4 tpd Between Bishop Auckland and Kings Cross! Who thinks that's a viable service, surely it would be more sensible to increase the frequency of Northern Rail services from Bishop to Darlington?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Another interesting one, 6 tpd to Saltburn. I would have thought that sort of service to Middlesbrough with maybe some extended to Saltburn might make sense. But 6 per day to saltburn? Some of these seem, well silly!

 

[tbtc]

6 per day to saltburn? Some of these seem, well silly!

Seven trains a day from Hull to Glasgow?

Seven trains a day from Nottingham to Glasgow?

It'd be farcical to see some of these suggestions suggested on a forum like this, but to see it on a Network Rail document... bonkers!

 

[ainsworth74]

Seven trains a day from Hull to Glasgow?

Seven trains a day from Nottingham to Glasgow?

It'd be farcical to see some of these suggestions suggested on a forum like this, but to see it on a Network Rail document... bonkers!

Now that you mention it, those are pretty out there as well. Another one that struck me as 'interesting' was six or even twelve trains per day from Nottingham to Kings Cross I'm sure EMT would love that sort of competition.

I worry about Network Rail. More than before even.

 

[tbtc]

Now that you mention it, those are pretty out there as well. Another one that struck me as 'interesting' was six or even twelve trains per day from Nottingham to Kings Cross I'm sure EMT would love that sort of competition.

I worry about Network Rail. More than before even.

I think its reassuring to see that they have time and money to spend on such bonkers schemes :roll:

Six trains a day from London "first stop Micklefield"?

Four trains a day from London to Penistone/ Huddersfield?

 

[ainsworth74]

I think its reassuring to see that they have time and money to spend on such bonkers schemes

Indeed, all is well, there is no need to worry, we are in safe hands, people who know how to deliver the project we need on time and on budget with value for money are in charge. :roll:

 

[Darandio]

Another interesting one, 6 tpd to Saltburn. I would have thought that sort of service to Middlesbrough with maybe some extended to Saltburn might make sense. But 6 per day to saltburn? Some of these seem, well silly!

How do you mean? Is this from a certain location to Saltburn as I havent read the document yet? It's just that there are a lot more than that now and there always has been!

EDIT

Didnt take long to search Saltburn and see KX to Saltburn 6tpd! Excellent!

 

[ainsworth74]

Didnt take long to search Saltburn and see KX to Saltburn 6tpd! Excellent!

With my local/enthusiast hat on I would love to see a Saltburn to KGX service, just hop on a train to Saltburn from Longbeck and then straight to London. Brilliant!

However I don't really see it as being a viable service really. (With my thinking hat on )

 

[tbtc]

Indeed, all is well, there is no need to worry, we are in safe hands, people who know how to deliver the project we need on time and on budget with value for money are in charge. :roll:

Couldn't have put it better myself

I'm looking forward to Boris Johnson announcing that "the people of London are delighted to finally have this direct link to Saltburn - this new service will finally put London on the map"

 

[142094]

Saltburn - KX could be very viable with stops at York and Doncaster! Perhaps another one for GC to investigate? Would be quite easy to join 2x180s at Eaglescliffe!

 

[ainsworth74]

I'm looking forward to Boris Johnson announcing that "the people of London are delighted to finally have this direct link to Saltburn - this new service will finally put London on the map"

Saltburn - KX could be very viable with stops at York and Doncaster! Perhaps another one for GC to investigate? Would be quite easy to join 2x180s at Eaglescliffe!

Well we've solved the problem of what to do with the spare 180s, give them to GC to run Saltburn services joining at Eaglesclifee. Sorted!

 

[Darandio]

With my local/enthusiast hat on I would love to see a Saltburn to KGX service, just hop on a train to Saltburn from Longbeck and then straight to London. Brilliant!

However I don't really see it as being a viable service really. (With my thinking hat on )

Me too, but we have had it before. At one point, R&C Borough Council wanted to try and get FTPE to extend to Redcar Central, even offering funding to secure it but nothing ever happened or Northern opposed it, not sure which.

Saying that, even the direct link to York would work well for Redcar Central. I use the station regularly and being a nosey git, tend to listen to what tickets are asked for. Obviously the options south will nearly always involve a change at Middlesbrough then a change at York but to only have one change would certainly make Lindas job easier! (Redcar Central ticket office)

 

[ainsworth74]

At one point, R&C Borough Council wanted to try and get FTPE to extend to Redcar Central, even offering funding to secure it but nothing ever happened or Northern opposed it, not sure which.

Shame that would be an extremely useful service for me coming home from uni! Hull to Leeds then straight through to Redcar, very handy. Oh well...

 

[142094]

Saying that, even the direct link to York would work well for Redcar Central. I use the station regularly and being a nosey git, tend to listen to what tickets are asked for. Obviously the options south will nearly always involve a change at Middlesbrough then a change at York but to only have one change would certainly make Lindas job easier! (Redcar Central ticket office)

Not sure how much the guards on Northern get as commission, but there have been a few times when I was on a train off Saltburn where people have asked for tickets to York and even one to London (so must have a made a few quid there then). Bet they wouldn't be pleased if someone else came to get their commission!

 

[sprinterguy]

Saltburn - KX could be very viable with stops at York and Doncaster! Perhaps another one for GC to investigate? Would be quite easy to join 2x180s at Eaglescliffe!

It wouldn't be too difficult with two buffer fitted HST sets! Just imagine, 9000hp of Valenta power...

Surely if connections could be improved between Saltburn and the ECML, such as providing a half hourly service to Darlington for a start, then that would go a long way to helping connectivity with more southerly destinations, without needing to introduce a direct train to London.

 

[142094]

Surely if connections could be improved between Saltburn and the ECML, such as providing a half hourly service to Darlington for a start, then that would go a long way to helping connectivity with more southerly destinations, without needing to introduce a direct train to London.

Half hourly to Darlo? There already is!

 

[ainsworth74]

Surely if connections could be improved between Saltburn and the ECML, such as providing a half hourly service to Darlington for a start

It already is half hourly with departures at xx:00 and xx:30 for most of the day and a few more at peak times.

Edit: 142094 beat me to it

 

[tbtc]

Me too, but we have had it before. At one point, R&C Borough Council wanted to try and get FTPE to extend to Redcar Central, even offering funding to secure it but nothing ever happened or Northern opposed it, not sure which

That's a shame, there's a lot of people around Teesside who don't necessarily want to go all the way into Middlesbrough

Similarly a shame there can't be a half hourly service from Eaglescliffe to York either, since that would give decent connections

 

[Darandio]

That's a shame, there's a lot of people around Teesside who don't necessarily want to go all the way into Middlesbrough

Similarly a shame there can't be a half hourly service from Eaglescliffe to York either, since that would give decent connections

Dont get me wrong, speaking from Redcar Central, I think we have a good service to enable connections. However, if there is a bad day, it can go wrong. FTPE from Middlesbrough southbound is hourly and your "connection" from Redcar, roughly 45 minutes past the hour will sometimes arrive 3-4 minutes before departure but into the same platform so if the Northern service is running 2-3 down, you get held and miss the FTPE!

Of course, you always have the "easier" and sometimes quicker option of going to Darlington, quicker sometimes if you catch an instant connection but then you pay a premium for the stretch of line from Darlington to Northallerton so either way, there are downsides and if your ticket has "not via Darlington" then you havent got much choice than to wait another hour.

 

[sprinterguy]

Half hourly to Darlo? There already is!

Ah sorry, thought it was hourly.

 

[Bish Boy]

Ah sorry, thought it was hourly.

wish it was hourly from Bishop to Darlo would make it possible for me to get home on the train in reasonable time.