Tyne metro pay for others

[LuRobot]

I've received a Single Justice Procedure notice from tyne and wear metro (Nexus) for fare evasion. At monument station I used my pop card to pay for my friend's journey and the barrier opened, he went through and I stayed behind. I then attempted to pay for myself with my pop card and the barrier wouldn't open. A member of staff then came over (it must've been a site) and I explained that I'd paid for my friend but it wouldn't let me through. He tkk me aside explained that I couldn't use my pop card for anyone but myself, took my details, then let me through the barriers without changing me.

Gemini seems to think I should ask them to withdraw the summons and plead not guilty.

What should I do?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Jul 2026 ==

I started at West Jesmond but did not tap on.

 

[Watershed]

What offence have you been charged with? It would be very helpful if you could upload photos of all the paperwork you have received (with any personal details, i.e. name, address, date of birth or case number redacted).

 

[LuRobot]

Im being charged with fare evasion. Here are the docs. I don't currently have my pop card transaction log and I'm not sure how to obtain it.

Moderator note - at attachment has been removed as it contains the name of the OP

 

[Watershed]

Im being charged with fare evasion. Here are the docs. I don't currently have my pop card transaction log and I'm not sure how to obtain it.

Did you touch in when you started your journey and have sufficient balance to complete the journey?

Why did you use your Pop card to let your friend exit? Did he have any other valid ticket?

 

[LuRobot]

I did not touch in (the price difference is 30p). My friend did not have a ticket. Hence why I paid.

 

[srg]

On the witness statement page, your name is visible. You might want to delete and upload a redacted copy. (I have reported it to the mods to do in case you can't delete it yourself)

 

[LuRobot]

The new witness statement

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Jul 2026 ==

Did you touch in when you started your journey and have sufficient balance to complete the journey?

Why did you use your Pop card to let your friend exit? Did he have any other valid ticket?

I did have enough balance to complete the journey, normally if you don't the barrier tells you and it's simple enough to put more money on. This time the barrier said something like "pop card already used"

 

[Watershed]

I did not touch in (the price difference is 30p).

By failing to touch in, that meant you didn't have a valid ticket for your journey. An unvalidated Pop card can't be used to travel.

Whilst the system will let you touch out (once) without touching in, this does not mean that you previously held a valid ticket. It just means that the maximum fare has been paid.

You didn't pay until the end of your journey, whereas the law requires you to pay beforehand. As such I'm not sure why Gemini is suggesting you should plead 'not guilty', but in any case relying on AI is dangerous as this proves. It's pretty cut and dried that you committed the offence and you will minimise the fine by pleading guilty.

My friend did not have a ticket. Hence why I paid.

A rather expensive mistake, I think you will find. You would probably have 'got away' with it if you had simply touched out. By handing your friend your ticket you were always going to get into trouble.

I would reconsider the kind of 'friend' this person is, if they didn't own up to what they did to the member of staff and offer their details instead. They were even more in the wrong than you.

 

[LuRobot]

I wasn't aware that the pop card acted like a ticket. I was under the impression it acted like a payment card. I'm still confused as to how that's fare evasion though

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Jul 2026 ==

The pop card normally also only charges you once you tap out as well, so you can't pay for your journey beforehand

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Jul 2026 ==

Is it worth emailing or calling to try and settle out of court?

 

[Watershed]

I wasn't aware that the pop card acted like a ticket. I was under the impression it acted like a payment card.

I'm not really sure how you would get that impression, but fair enough. It doesn't make any difference though - the only defence is if you have a "reasonable excuse" for not paying before you boarded. I doubt that "I thought I could just touch out" will cut it.

I'm still confused as to how that's fare evasion though

You don't need to be intentionally evading the fare to commit the offence. If you look at the wording of the offence, it just says:

(4) If any person without reasonable excuse—
(a) uses, or attempts to use, a specified service without previous payment of the fare for the journey he is making ...
... he shall be guilty in any such case of an offence and liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding £500.

You used the Metro without previous payment of the fare (i.e. before boarding). And you don't have a reasonable excuse for that.

The title 'fare evasion' is a bit misleading because the evasion bit doesn't need to be proven.

The pop card normally also only charges you once you tap out as well, so you can't pay for your journey beforehand

When you touch in with a Pop card, the validator or gateline deducts the maximum fare from your card.

If you make a journey covering all of the zones that maximum fare covers, the journey record just gets completed when you touch out, with nothing more deducted.

If you make a journey covering fewer zones, the validator or gateline puts the difference back onto your card when you touch out to complete the journey.

The maximum fare that's charged upon touching in means it is in your interest to touch out.

So yes, you are paying for your journey beforehand when you touch in with a Pop card.

Is it worth emailing or calling to try and settle out of court?

There's certainly no harm giving it a try. @Tetchytyke reported in this thread that they had some success when doing so on behalf of indebted clients in a previous job.

If they agree to a settlement, you can probably expect them to ask for the costs they've applied for in Court (£120), plus the fare since you didn't actually end up paying for your journey (arguably your friend did, or you did for his journey - but clearly only one fare has been paid, not two).

 

[LuRobot]

And if I need to plead guilty and add mitigation, do you know how I'd go about getting the logs for my card use? I can't seem to find them on any portal or dashboard

 

[WesternLancer]

By failing to touch in, that meant you didn't have a valid ticket for your journey. An unvalidated Pop card can't be used to travel.

Whilst the system will let you touch out (once) without touching in, this does not mean that you previously held a valid ticket. It just means that the maximum fare has been paid.

You didn't pay until the end of your journey, whereas the law requires you to pay beforehand. As such I'm not sure why Gemini is suggesting you should plead 'not guilty', but in any case relying on AI is dangerous as this proves. It's pretty cut and dried that you committed the offence and you will minimise the fine by pleading guilty.


A rather expensive mistake, I think you will find. You would probably have 'got away' with it if you had simply touched out. By handing your friend your ticket you were always going to get into trouble.

I would reconsider the kind of 'friend' this person is, if they didn't own up to what they did to the member of staff and offer their details instead. They were even more in the wrong than you.

Do Nexus settle out of court if requested subject to apology and convincing them lessons learned?

It might seem at least asking nexus if they would, in writing, prior to return of SJPN papers deadline with plea.

We don’t see nexus cases on here very often and I can’t ever recall seeing a nexus prosecution case so don’t know what their approach might be to such things based on other cases.

Edit. Cross posted - I note a link to another thread with comment by an experienced forum member with relevant direct experience of nexus who might be able to pitch in with some more advice if they see this.

 

[LuRobot]

By failing to touch in, that meant you didn't have a valid ticket for your journey. An unvalidated Pop card can't be used to travel.

Whilst the system will let you touch out (once) without touching in, this does not mean that you previously held a valid ticket. It just means that the maximum fare has been paid.

You didn't pay until the end of your journey, whereas the law requires you to pay beforehand. As such I'm not sure why Gemini is suggesting you should plead 'not guilty', but in any case relying on AI is dangerous as this proves. It's pretty cut and dried that you committed the offence and you will minimise the fine by pleading guilty.


A rather expensive mistake, I think you will find. You would probably have 'got away' with it if you had simply touched out. By handing your friend your ticket you were always going to get into trouble.

I would reconsider the kind of 'friend' this person is, if they didn't own up to what they did to the member of staff and offer their details instead. They were even more in the wrong than you.

Gemini seemed convinced that because I tapped out my friend, then was trying to tap myself out before a member of staff intervened asked what was going on, took my statement and details and then let me through, that I wasn't trying to evade a fair so wasn't guilty. Hence the question about intent

 

[WesternLancer]

Gemini seemed convinced that because I tapped out my friend, then was trying to tap myself out before a member of staff intervened asked what was going on, took my statement and details and then let me through, that I wasn't trying to evade a fair so wasn't guilty. Hence the question about intent

You’d need to read what the actual conditions of travel issued by Nexus state.

But that doesn’t stop you from asking nexus if they will allow you to settle this out of court and then withdraw the court action.

You can say you didn’t understand that what you did was wrong and that you didn’t intend to evade correct payment, assuming that’s not a lie.

 

[Watershed]

And if I need to plead guilty and add mitigation, do you know how I'd go about getting the logs for my card use? I can't seem to find them on any portal or dashboard

The logs aren't really going to help you. If you present them, then the Magistrate(s) might ask why you were stopped when you apparently managed to get through the barrier by touching out successfully. You're opening a can of worms by trying to claim the credit for the fare your friend paid (using your card).

I would suggest not trying to make any excuses - you tried to cover up your friend's offence, and so now you are in trouble for travelling without a ticket yourself. You need to take accountability for that.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Jul 2026 ==

Gemini seemed convinced that because I tapped out my friend, then was trying to tap myself out before a member of staff intervened asked what was going on, took my statement and details and then let me through, that I wasn't trying to evade a fair so wasn't guilty. Hence the question about intent

As before, this highlights the danger of relying on AI. It often makes assumptions based on training data which may have no relevance to the situation you're talking about, and may be outdated or wrong in the first place.

AI is not 'intelligent' at all, it is little more than a fancy version of the thing on the top of your keyboard that predicts the next word you might want to say. It's great at producing plausible sounding word-soup but rubbish at giving accurate information.

 

[AlterEgo]

Gemini seemed convinced that because I tapped out my friend, then was trying to tap myself out before a member of staff intervened asked what was going on, took my statement and details and then let me through, that I wasn't trying to evade a fair so wasn't guilty. Hence the question about intent

Gemini is junk and does not know the law. As we have established, these Bylaws are strict liability and you are not even being accused of anything intentional like "evading the fare".

Reliance on smelly poo poo slop AI will get a lot of people into trouble because it is, genuinely, like asking a child to Google something for you and tell you what they found without looking at the results yourself.

 

[jumble]

Do Nexus settle out of court if requested subject to apology and convincing them lessons learned?

It might seem at least asking nexus if they would, in writing, prior to return of SJPN papers deadline with plea.

We don’t see nexus cases on here very often and I can’t ever recall seeing a nexus prosecution case so don’t know what their approach might be to such things based on other cases.

Edit. Cross posted - I note a link to another thread with comment by an experienced forum member with relevant direct experience of nexus who might be able to pitch in with some more advice if they see this.

Page 3 invites the OP to get in touch if they wish to discuss a possible alternative resolution which looks hopeful

 

[LuRobot]

Page 3 invites the OP to get in touch if they wish to discuss a possible alternative resolution which looks hopeful

What's the OP?

 

[SECR 65]

I'm slightly confused about what's happening here, and I wonder if there is a misscomunication between the OP and other members?

The way I saw it is that the OP and their friend approached the metro station from 'the outside world'. The OP had a pop card (I assume a Nexus oyster equivalent) by their friend did not have a ticket. The OP tapped their pop card on the barrier, effectively 'tapping in' for their friend. However, if I am correct, the pop card is non-transferable, so presumably the OP's friend has committed an offence by travelling on a card which is not theirs? The friend also completed a journey without carrying their payment method with them, so would have been unable to present a valid ticket. The OP then attemped to tap in again with the same card, belonging to them, but the barrier did not let them through, because, according to 'the computer' that card was already 'within' the metro network. A staff member approached the OP and explained that the card cannot be used by other people. That member of staff, having taken the OP's details, then proceeded to allow the OP to travel on the network without a valid ticket. If I am understanding correctly, the friend has committed an offence but the OP has not, as the friend travelled on a pop card which they were not entitled to, but the OP was given permission by a staff member to travel without a valid ticket. I'd be interested to know how the friend exited at their destination station.

I suspect I may well have completely missunderstood that. If so, let me know, and I'll cross out this post. @SuspectUsual has confirmed that, indeed, I was wrong.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Jul 2026 ==

What's the OP?

Original poster - so you @LuRobot

 

[WesternLancer]

Page 3 invites the OP to get in touch if they wish to discuss a possible alternative resolution which looks hopeful

Good spot.

Op should get drafting something which we can then help them get ready to send by the end of today potentially

 

[SuspectUsual]

I'm slightly confused about what's happening here, and I wonder if there is a misscomunication between the OP and other members?

The way I saw it is that the OP and their friend approached the metro station from 'the outside world'. The OP had a pop card (I assume a Nexus oyster equivalent) by their friend did not have a ticket. The OP tapped their pop card on the barrier, effectively 'tapping in' for their friend.

No. This was at the destination station (Monument). The OP has said they came from West Jesmond (I assume there are no barriers there??)

 

[Segedunum]

I'm slightly confused about what's happening here, and I wonder if there is a misscomunication between the OP and other members?

The way I saw it is that the OP and their friend approached the metro station from 'the outside world'. The OP had a pop card (I assume a Nexus oyster equivalent) by their friend did not have a ticket. The OP tapped their pop card on the barrier, effectively 'tapping in' for their friend. However, if I am correct, the pop card is non-transferable, so presumably the OP's friend has committed an offence by travelling on a card which is not theirs? The friend also completed a journey without carrying their payment method with them, so would have been unable to present a valid ticket. The OP then attemped to tap in again with the same card, belonging to them, but the barrier did not let them through, because, according to 'the computer' that card was already 'within' the metro network. A staff member approached the OP and explained that the card cannot be used by other people. That member of staff, having taken the OP's details, then proceeded to allow the OP to travel on the network without a valid ticket. If I am understanding correctly, the friend has committed an offence but the OP has not, as the friend travelled on a pop card which they were not entitled to, but the OP was given permission by a staff member to travel without a valid ticket. I'd be interested to know how the friend exited at their destination station.

The paperwork provided states that the OP was stopped at Monument having travelled from West Jesmond to Monument. You would never (on Metro at least) allow someone through, issue them with an MG11, then send them on their way. If this was the other way around the OP would have had to have been invited into the 'paid' area or forced their way in - a separate offence in itself.

From my own experience I can tell you that carrying around (what I assume is) a Pay as you Go Pop card without tapping in is as good as having nothing at all on you - the fact you've then used it to tap someone else out as well has made the matter serious enough for the CSA to consider it necessary to issue an MG11 (which is where your details are taken but there's no discussion of a Penalty at that stage) versus a Penalty Fare.

If you engage with Nexus and you're honest about what you've done (which is that you not only didn't have a valid ticket or pass but tried to use the pass for two people), that you understand what you've done is wrong, and that you won't do this again, then there's every likelihood you'll be able to keep it out of court. Back when I was involved in this side of things, it was usually the repeat offenders or those who didn't bother engaging who found themselves having their day in court (and often not bothering to show up there either).

Of course not a guarantee of a specific outcome - other posters on here will be able to assist you with drafting a response.

 

[LuRobot]

I'm slightly confused about what's happening here, and I wonder if there is a misscomunication between the OP and other members?

The way I saw it is that the OP and their friend approached the metro station from 'the outside world'. The OP had a pop card (I assume a Nexus oyster equivalent) by their friend did not have a ticket. The OP tapped their pop card on the barrier, effectively 'tapping in' for their friend. However, if I am correct, the pop card is non-transferable, so presumably the OP's friend has committed an offence by travelling on a card which is not theirs? The friend also completed a journey without carrying their payment method with them, so would have been unable to present a valid ticket. The OP then attemped to tap in again with the same card, belonging to them, but the barrier did not let them through, because, according to 'the computer' that card was already 'within' the metro network. A staff member approached the OP and explained that the card cannot be used by other people. That member of staff, having taken the OP's details, then proceeded to allow the OP to travel on the network without a valid ticket. If I am understanding correctly, the friend has committed an offence but the OP has not, as the friend travelled on a pop card which they were not entitled to, but the OP was given permission by a staff member to travel without a valid ticket. I'd be interested to know how the friend exited at their destination station.

I suspect I may well have completely missunderstood that. If so, let me know, and I'll cross out this post.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Jul 2026 ==


Original poster - so you @LuRobot

It's the other way around, is already traveled without tapping in. Usually when tapping out at a barrier without tapping in you are charged the maximum fair (£2.50 vs £2.20 so I wasn't that concerned when the metro was arriving as we entered about making sure I tapped in). The situation you described did occur, just on the way out.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Metro has compulsory ticket areas, which are clearly marked with signage and red lines on the ground. At West Jesmond on the southbound platform these are roughly level with the arches between the entrance hall and the platform.

If you did not touch in at West Jesmond then it doesn't actually matter what happened subsequently, you have committed the offence the second you cross that red line.

West Jesmond is in the heart of Newcastle's studentville and a) is a very common location for fare evasion and b) is a favoured hunting ground for Metro's revenue protection staff.

To @LuRobot, what (if any) documentation were you given by the barrier staff at Monument? Usually they deal with these types of issues with a Penalty Fare but from what you have said it looks as though they didn't in this case?

If you received a Penalty Fare and didn't pay it, it is sometimes possible to beg Nexus to pull the prosecution on payment of that Penalty Fare. If they didn't issue a Penalty Fare and instead immediately reported it for prosecution then this becomes a lot more difficult. Nexus generally like prosecuting people for these types of issues because they like to send the message that it's not acceptable. They don't any more, but they used to print up posters at stations with the names of everyone they've prosecuted. Realistically, I suspect that Nexus would expect you to give your friend's full details before they would even entertain a negotiation.

Given the station pair I am assuming that you are a student. If you are, I would strongly recommend that you contact your students' union advice service to seek their support. Newcastle University's student union advice centre is very very good. Gateshead College are pretty good too. I'm also sure Northumbria are but I must confess I have had fewer dealings with them.

 

[WesternLancer]

If you engage with Nexus and you're honest about what you've done (which is that you not only didn't have a valid ticket or pass but tried to use the pass for two people), that you understand what you've done is wrong, and that you won't do this again, then there's every likelihood you'll be able to keep it out of court. Back when I was involved in this side of things, it was usually the repeat offenders or those who didn't bother engaging who found themselves having their day in court (and often not bothering to show up there either).

Of course not a guarantee of a specific outcome - other posters on here will be able to assist you with drafting a response.

Good advice on what the OP should at least try to do now IMHO

Otherwise probably just best to plead guilty to benefit from the reduced court fine as a result of such a plea. But still seems to me a good idea to at least try and seek a settlement from Nexus if there is time to do that.

But very helpful post and info from @Tetchytyke I would suggest.

 

[jumble]

Good advice on what the OP should at least try to do now IMHO

Otherwise probably just best to plead guilty to benefit from the reduced court fine as a result of such a plea. But still seems to me a good idea to at least try and seek a settlement from Nexus if there is time to do that.

But very helpful post and info from @Tetchytyke I would suggest.

Well if I were the OP I would be on the phone right now and would very politely and unentitled ask "Please help me. What do I need to do to achieve an alternative resolution that does not involve court?"
Then depending on the answer come back here where other more experienced poster than me can advise further
I would not be at all surprised if the answer is out of court settlement same amount as a penalty fare
I am in agreement with @Segedunum that Nexus would probably not be particularly inclined to potentially ruin young and a bit foolish peoples lives for a silly mistake if they engage

​

 

[AlterEgo]

I am in agreement with @Segedunum that Nexus would probably not be particularly inclined to potentially ruin young and a bit foolish peoples lives for a silly mistake if they engage

​

In 2024/2025 Nexus (Tyne and Wear Metro) prosecuted, wait for it:

Ten thousand people.

 

[jumble]

In 2024/2025 Nexus (Tyne and Wear Metro) prosecuted, wait for it:

Ten thousand people.

No doubt but to be relevant this needs to have the context of how many of those Ten Thousand just buried their heads in the sand

 

[Tetchytyke]

No doubt but to be relevant this needs to have the context of how many of those Ten Thousand just buried their heads in the sand

Most did, in that they failed to pay a Penalty Fare and then the matter escalated. But certainly not all. They're hot on people messing around with barriers, whether it is tailgating or jumping them or whatever.

Nexus are very content to prosecute people, even students being foolish.

If a Penalty Fare was issued they may pull the prosecution if there are mitigating circumstances as to why the Penalty Fare was not appealed or paid within the time limit. Otherwise, generally they don't do out-of-court settlements in my experience, Nexus (like TfL) see value in prosecution because of the message it sends. My suspicion is that the OP tried- and failed- to get them both them and their friend through the barrier on one swipe, and this is why it was reported for prosecution. I would be surprised if Nexus pull the prosecution if there were barrier-related shenanigans (e.g. tailgating) taking place.

Just to add to my previous post, there is usually a short timeframe in which to submit a plea to Court. The OP would do well to pay attention to it.

 

[LuRobot]

Most did, in that they failed to pay a Penalty Fare and then the matter escalated. But certainly not all. They're hot on people messing around with barriers, whether it is tailgating or jumping them or whatever.

Nexus are very content to prosecute people, even students being foolish.

If a Penalty Fare was issued they may pull the prosecution if there are mitigating circumstances as to why the Penalty Fare was not appealed or paid within the time limit. Otherwise, generally they don't do out-of-court settlements in my experience, Nexus (like TfL) see value in prosecution because of the message it sends. My suspicion is that the OP tried- and failed- to get them both them and their friend through the barrier on one swipe, and this is why it was reported for prosecution. I would be surprised if Nexus pull the prosecution if there were barrier-related shenanigans (e.g. tailgating) taking place.

Just to add to my previous post, there is usually a short timeframe in which to submit a plea to Court. The OP would do well to pay attention to it.

I didn't receive a penalty fare, it went straight to prosecution