There should be extra trains running for the Rihanna concert and the North East live on Saturday.
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Tyne and Wear Metro
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There should be extra trains running for the Rihanna concert and the North East live on Saturday.
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danielnez1
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I spotted refurbished 4006 on the low loader yesterday afternoon near the Moor Farm roundabout.
4023 is going down today.
tjohnson86
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4023 going today means only 3 green unrefurbished metrocars will be remaining; 4004, 4036 and 4051. Funny that I was actually only on 4023 on Tuesday, unwaware it would be going for refurbishment 2 days later!
I've also noticed in the last couple of weeks alot of unrefurbished 2 car sets have been getting swapped around, also 4068 has had the B end leading for a few weeks now and has been paired with a few different cars during this time, so I'm wondering if its A end may be faulty?
On another note, has anyone seen 4013 on the system recently? Can't say I've seen it in the last couple of months or so. Was wondering whether theres been a fault with it or something.
I've also noticed in the last couple of weeks alot of unrefurbished 2 car sets have been getting swapped around, also 4068 has had the B end leading for a few weeks now and has been paired with a few different cars during this time, so I'm wondering if its A end may be faulty?
On another note, has anyone seen 4013 on the system recently? Can't say I've seen it in the last couple of months or so. Was wondering whether theres been a fault with it or something.
swt_passenger
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Could it be IR passenger counting equipment? Some of the Desiros have it, but IIRC many mainline units are having load weighing devices fitted to measure capacity.
AutoKratz
Member
They're automatic passenger counters.
Also if you look at North Shields station above the stairs leading down to the platforms also has passenger counters as well.
Just noticed that as well - 4062 also doesn't have them on. Sounds like cost cutting.
On a related note, the refurbishments seem to be happening a lot quicker - 4006 went down the back end of April and returned last week, so very short turnaround now.
Makes sense I suppose, given that Nexus are over budget on a good number of things at present.
The accuracy of this type of counter was always going to be questionable on trains that see such high loadings anyway... Not to mention that there will be costs associated with getting the data to shore, unless there is already an arrangement in place for things like FASSI, CCTV or the PA system that the counters can hook into (the trains do have WiFi APs on, which suggests there is already something there).
Jon
The facebook lot have had a field day today with the earlier overhead line problem(it would seem by the sounds of it and from what I saw today a train may of bought the OHL down as I seen 4051/77 in Pelaw sidings with their pantographs down) and whilst I do agree with the comments that there did seem to be a lack of communication at times and the area of suspension did not seem fully clear at times, were the trains suspended between G'head Stadium-Hebburn/Brockley Whins or was it Monument- Hebburn/Brockley whins or was it Heworth-Monument and Heworth-G'head Stadium and believe you me, this has lead to lots of confusion among general passengers and of course the usual disapproval when things go wrong.
It also sounds like from the facebook page that communications between control and the drivers was not the best but as an enthusiast I am not too surprised by that as I am sure they were quite busy this afternoon so info could not always be passed on as soon as we would of liked.
Whilst I can understand the complaints today from the earlier problems, it annoys me when people complain when trains get withdrawn from service as 9 times out of 10, they are not even on the train and would not even be aware of it if it was not for the facebook page! All this your service is the worst in the world comments are probably from people who only travel on T&W Metro and nothing else in general. Infuriates me!
Although that said, the general reliability of the service in the last year or two must be quite a cause for concern for Nexus/DB and I would of dread to think what the service would of been liked if they did not get that funding from the government.
It also sounds like from the facebook page that communications between control and the drivers was not the best but as an enthusiast I am not too surprised by that as I am sure they were quite busy this afternoon so info could not always be passed on as soon as we would of liked.
Whilst I can understand the complaints today from the earlier problems, it annoys me when people complain when trains get withdrawn from service as 9 times out of 10, they are not even on the train and would not even be aware of it if it was not for the facebook page! All this your service is the worst in the world comments are probably from people who only travel on T&W Metro and nothing else in general. Infuriates me!
Although that said, the general reliability of the service in the last year or two must be quite a cause for concern for Nexus/DB and I would of dread to think what the service would of been liked if they did not get that funding from the government.
transmanche
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Quite, people's perception of service quality is reduced even if they are not directly affected by the problem.
Today wasn't good, with the earlier power supply problem and at least two trains being withdrawn from service this evening. When the basic evening frequency is every 15 mins, then this really does a large hole in the service.
Metro could help themselves by saying why trains are withdrawn from service. If a passenger has caused a door fault, then say so - as this does appear to be one of the most common reasons. (Something that prompted Metro to prosecute a passenger recently, for obstructing the doors.)
Perhaps they could investigate the possibility of leaving 'hot spares' at places like Sunderland, South Shields, Manors or North Shields - which may help the service to recover faster. Although unit availability may be a problem. And not helped by the removal of reversing sidings at Benton and taking North Shields P3 out of service.
ModernRailways
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CoachAlex has uploaded a video to Youtube - click to view - according to him the pantographs were ripped off yet somehow they are still attached...
Communication is certainly not a top spot for drivers. We were held at red signal for ten minutes before the driver made an announcement. All they need to do is after 30-40 seconds say 'Sorry, we're just being held at a red signal, hopefully we'll be on the move shortly.' Then after another 3 or 4 minutes make an announcement saying 'Sorry for the delay I'm just getting in touch with my control to find out if there's a problem, I'll update you once I know more.' Then an update on what's happening. I'm surprised Metro still haven't implemented some sort of rule like this where drivers must make an announcement if the train has been held for more than 30 seconds longer than it should have been.
I wouldn't say Metro has gotten worse, it's just easier to find out when trains are delayed/cancelled through the likes of Facebook. Also, since they don't have as many trains to call upon due to the refurbishment there stock is a lot more stretched. This is why I'd like another small depot at somewhere like South Shields/Pelaw, with a train always stabled there to be called upon when a delay arises. Right now, if a train fails another train has to go from Gosforth and try and pick up the timetable of the original service. It's not going to be easy if the failed train is at Jarrow for example.
The problem with their Facebook is it also has a bot which posts whatever get's posted on the Nexus website which can sometimes be old or false. When there are delays like they've had today and someone is monitoring social networks then that bot should be switched off so that it's only the human, it makes it much easier for people to understand.
Edit to add: Staff need to be deployed better too, there were no staff to be seen when I did the journey other than at Gateshead and Heworth. I know it takes awhile to get to these places if staff are somewhere else on the network, but wouldn't it be better to allocate staff to sections of the Metro, so say you have staff for Zone 1, Zone 2/Zone 3 Airport branch, Zone 2 North Tyneside, Zone 2/Zone 3 South Tyneside, Zone 2/3 Sunderland this would then allow staff to be deployed much quicker to affected stations.
Any chance of Huw Lewis appearing and giving some feedback?
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I thought these were being put back in place?
Communication is certainly not a top spot for drivers. We were held at red signal for ten minutes before the driver made an announcement. All they need to do is after 30-40 seconds say 'Sorry, we're just being held at a red signal, hopefully we'll be on the move shortly.' Then after another 3 or 4 minutes make an announcement saying 'Sorry for the delay I'm just getting in touch with my control to find out if there's a problem, I'll update you once I know more.' Then an update on what's happening. I'm surprised Metro still haven't implemented some sort of rule like this where drivers must make an announcement if the train has been held for more than 30 seconds longer than it should have been.
I wouldn't say Metro has gotten worse, it's just easier to find out when trains are delayed/cancelled through the likes of Facebook. Also, since they don't have as many trains to call upon due to the refurbishment there stock is a lot more stretched. This is why I'd like another small depot at somewhere like South Shields/Pelaw, with a train always stabled there to be called upon when a delay arises. Right now, if a train fails another train has to go from Gosforth and try and pick up the timetable of the original service. It's not going to be easy if the failed train is at Jarrow for example.
The problem with their Facebook is it also has a bot which posts whatever get's posted on the Nexus website which can sometimes be old or false. When there are delays like they've had today and someone is monitoring social networks then that bot should be switched off so that it's only the human, it makes it much easier for people to understand.
Edit to add: Staff need to be deployed better too, there were no staff to be seen when I did the journey other than at Gateshead and Heworth. I know it takes awhile to get to these places if staff are somewhere else on the network, but wouldn't it be better to allocate staff to sections of the Metro, so say you have staff for Zone 1, Zone 2/Zone 3 Airport branch, Zone 2 North Tyneside, Zone 2/Zone 3 South Tyneside, Zone 2/3 Sunderland this would then allow staff to be deployed much quicker to affected stations.
Any chance of Huw Lewis appearing and giving some feedback?
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I thought these were being put back in place?
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The Benton sidings have been removed, and the junction plain-lined. All OHL and supporting infrastructure is already removed.
The land between Tyne Dock and Brockley Whins would be an ideal place for such an extra depot. This way it would serve both lines well, open up the route for special workings and maybe eventually a full service between South Shields and Sunderland, and make use of land that is already there.
Jon
To be fair, when I went past 4051/77 yesterday and looked at the pantographs, whilst they were obviously down my first impression was that they looked quite damaged or ripped off even to some extent(not fully). They certainly did not look like too me they were just simply being pulled down and the angle on that video does not really do much justice I feel.
tjohnson86
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Surely if the damage was as severe as coachalex makes out, the 2 cars in question wouldn't have been back in passenger service so quickly?
On a different note, 4081 is now in Doncaster and 31 has returned. 06 and 30are paired together and in passenger service. Not sure why 30 seemed to take longer to get in service than most other recently refurbed units.
Also 4013 is back in passenger service after a long spell out, but didn't catch the unit it was paired with.
On a different note, 4081 is now in Doncaster and 31 has returned. 06 and 30are paired together and in passenger service. Not sure why 30 seemed to take longer to get in service than most other recently refurbed units.
Also 4013 is back in passenger service after a long spell out, but didn't catch the unit it was paired with.
4013 is paired with 4003 on the peak services today.
From what I have heard, the overhead lines were sagging due to the heat, which is what caused 4051/77 to be damaged.
Quite. I'm not sure why they do not just stop people from commenting on the posts. Most are quick to complain on FB but no doubt wouldn't write a letter or send an email.
To top it all off, there is apparently a shortage of drivers due to various reasons - has been mentioned on the Nexus discussion forum.
From what I have heard, the overhead lines were sagging due to the heat, which is what caused 4051/77 to be damaged.
Paul_10 said:
Quite. I'm not sure why they do not just stop people from commenting on the posts. Most are quick to complain on FB but no doubt wouldn't write a letter or send an email.
To top it all off, there is apparently a shortage of drivers due to various reasons - has been mentioned on the Nexus discussion forum.
ModernRailways
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I saw someone the other day who asked why it was so hard to get a refund, Metro responded saying all they had to do was fill out a form, and the person replied giving them a load of grief about how that takes too long and they should just be able to go into a shop and get one! Unbelievable!
I do wonder if they stopped comments they would just get more grief though, plus people wouldn't be able to find out information since they don't allow wall posts.
What I find most amusing is those who say there journey is delayed every day. I don't recall (with the exception of major delays) there ever being a time where the same train, at the same time being delayed/cancelled on a daily basis. Some people are even moaning at 11pm when there not even traveling. I bet if you followed a group of commuters on a daily basis for about two months and saw how many times they were delayed, you will likely find they are only delayed once or twice, whilst that still isn't good enough, it all depends on what the delay is for.
I also see people complaining that they are going to be sacked if they are late. On Saturday, it took me 30 minutes to get from Jarrow to Monument, a journey that normally takes about 18 minutes. A load of people on the train were complaining about this small delay (to me it's small), one person was going to be late for their train back to London. If these people know they need to be somewhere by a specific time then surely the logical thing to do would be to set off earlier. If I've got a mainline train to catch, whereby if I miss it I will have to pay a ridiculous fare or not go, then I will always aim to be at the station 20 minutes early (at least). Anything less and I always panic a little.
I'll be more than happy to drive the trains and I'll do it for free, I know most of the network after sitting next to the driver quite a few times now! Joking aside (unless you want to actually give me a job) though, the drivers issue is not at all surprising, with a lot no doubt going on holidays and I also heard that a few are retiring. On Saturday that seemed to be one of the biggest problems, drivers were so out of place which meant trains were being delayed whilst waiting for a driver. The signallers did a really good job with what they had. Trying to explain it all to my Mam and Grandad though was disastrous, they don't understand why you can't just stop every train for 12 minutes so they all go back to a timetable only with each train being 12 minutes later.
I must admit there have been quite a few faults lately, and a lot of people don't seem to be able to grasp just how the weather affects the service. I wonder if Metro/Nexus would benefit if they published a document outlining how the weather affects the infrastructure. Just like South West Trains did last week when they had a problem due to the heat.
In fairness to the facebook lot, those who have got caught up in the disruption do have a right to complain as with the OHL disruption, things did seem a tad dis-organised as I mentioned earlier in the thread of where the trains are actually running too as there was some conflicting PA messages.
The amount of trains being withdrawn from service is quite concerning also, are they all weather related or just general faults? Either way, even if it was the weather, then why are trains overheating(as the FB page has put it) at such modest temperatures? I mean, the "heat" is not as consistent as it is further South or no where near as hot in America yet the trains down the South are not failing because of the heat so I feel this needs to be investigated.
Those facebook messages that say that the service is always disrupted and that they are late for work because of the delays annoys me also, if a minor delay makes you late for work then that is your own fault for not leaving with plenty of time to spare.
I also got to admit though, as soon as the fb page said the service is disrupted "due to the extreme heat" then I'm sorry but your just opening yourselves up for mocking and excuses comments. As MR says, they could of explained why the "extreme heat"(don't think I would use the word extreme for the warm weather but obviously tracks exposed to the sun will be extremely hot) does actually cause problems for TOC's as ridiculous as that may sound to the everyday passenger.
The amount of trains being withdrawn from service is quite concerning also, are they all weather related or just general faults? Either way, even if it was the weather, then why are trains overheating(as the FB page has put it) at such modest temperatures? I mean, the "heat" is not as consistent as it is further South or no where near as hot in America yet the trains down the South are not failing because of the heat so I feel this needs to be investigated.
Those facebook messages that say that the service is always disrupted and that they are late for work because of the delays annoys me also, if a minor delay makes you late for work then that is your own fault for not leaving with plenty of time to spare.
I also got to admit though, as soon as the fb page said the service is disrupted "due to the extreme heat" then I'm sorry but your just opening yourselves up for mocking and excuses comments. As MR says, they could of explained why the "extreme heat"(don't think I would use the word extreme for the warm weather but obviously tracks exposed to the sun will be extremely hot) does actually cause problems for TOC's as ridiculous as that may sound to the everyday passenger.
The OHL fault was definitely heat related, although again its age does not help. I know that one of the reccent Gateshead Stadium - Hebburn/ Brockley Whins possessions was for OHL work but not sure if it was in that area near Heworth.
The temperature does have a part to play in some failures but I suspect that it is mainly the age of the rolling stock, which you can't do much about apart from replace the fleet. A lot of the electrical components were obsolete years ago, so the situation isn't going to get much better. In that respect, it seems increasingly that Nexus left the fleet and infrastructure to go so far downhill that is is coming back to bite them in the proverbial. Until the All Change programme started, I cannot really remember that much work being done on track or infrastructure for ages beforehand.
The temperature does have a part to play in some failures but I suspect that it is mainly the age of the rolling stock, which you can't do much about apart from replace the fleet. A lot of the electrical components were obsolete years ago, so the situation isn't going to get much better. In that respect, it seems increasingly that Nexus left the fleet and infrastructure to go so far downhill that is is coming back to bite them in the proverbial. Until the All Change programme started, I cannot really remember that much work being done on track or infrastructure for ages beforehand.
Can't be the age of the OHL though, it was replaced in March this year around that area and you could see the OHL was brand new when travelling through the area also.
Would like your thoughts on CoachAlex's comment that 4013 was out of service too undergo experiments too see if the four unrefurbished units could be refurbished at Gosforth Depot. "After many months of experiments to see if it could be refurbished locally in Gosforth Depot as part of the 4 Metrocars which will not be refurbished at Wabtec." those were his exact words. However you were right in saying it got new doors as the doors internally are now in that painted grey which I think always looked better than the unpainted metal type that most unrefurbished units have. Apart from that, I never noticed anything else different internally. Although if the reason was for new doors then how come it was out of service so long?
Someone posted on North East Buses forums all the posts the tyne and wear metro person did on the facebook page since the start of July and there has been EIGHTEEN different types of disruptions this mont, albeit most of them fairly minor but may still be noticeable to some passengers. And there has been THIRTEEN trains being withdrawn from service with the yellow line seen the most trains being withdrawn. I sure hope Nexus/DB Regio are taking note of this and investigating why this is the case, alot of those withdrawn trains have took place between the 12-14th July but I think you be covering over the cracks if you just going to blame it on the weather. Would like to also add 4080/4065 were also withdrawn from service today and that was not reported so who knows if there has been more trains being withdrawn from service. Either way, its been a pretty shambolic couple of weeks it seems unfortunately.
Would like to also add that the "Metro Ken" PA announcement about the major line closure a bit cheeseworthy. What is the fashion of trying to say announcements in a patronising type of manor? Its nearly as bad as those Go North East next stop announcements about to stay within your seat until the bus has stopped which again is being said in a patronising tone of voice.
Load of crap I'm afraid as usual. 4013 was taken out of service on an unrelated matter a while back, but the doors were removed and put onto a different car. New doors had to be ordered in from the supplier, which is why it took so long from what I have heard. This is the reason why 4013 has the A end repainted, as it was sitting waiting for the new doors. Nothing else has been touched, apart from fixing the original fault.
Up until now the four cars that are not being refurbished are not going to have anything else done to them. There is no plan to refurbish them at the depot. 4001/02 are not getting done, but it still hasn't been decided what the other two will be.
Paul_10 said:
There has been a lot more than 13 withdrawn since the start of the month. In a single 4 week period, you are looking at over 100 trains withdrawn from service - stats are shown in the most recent ITA documents.
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Some faults can be cleared by energising the cab or dropping the pans. Sounds like either a radio or door tones fault. No door tones = no service and back to the depot.
blue sabre
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But shouldn't that still be able to return to the depot under it's own power?
Are there any stats anywhere that show refurbished vs unrefurbished failures? Is there something about the refurbishment that is making the trains more susceptible to failures.
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tjohnson86
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I have to say with the number of failures recently, its been a really bad couple of weeks for metro. As well as the failures mentioned I was also was on 4019/25 when they were taken out of service at Pelaw the other day, and on the day of the disruption 21/24 had failed and were sitting in the sidings at Sunderland. The fact 21/24 experienced another failure at Jesmond a day later is quite concerning as it shows that metrocars are being used when they aren't really fit for service. I also heard an announcement mentioning another failure at Jesmond this morning.
It seems the majority of units failing are the unrefurbished units, however I've noticed quite a few refurbed units with the B ends leading recently (4057and 4061 for example) so there must've been a couple of refurbs that failed during this time well.
Going off-topic here, but does anyone know if Coachalex claims to have a source for the false information he keeps posting? If not then I really don't understand why he feels the need to keep making stuff up and spreading false rumours.
Also have to agree with Paul about the "metro ken" announcement, not only does it sound patronising but I also feel it makes the line closure seem less important or major than it actually is!
It seems the majority of units failing are the unrefurbished units, however I've noticed quite a few refurbed units with the B ends leading recently (4057and 4061 for example) so there must've been a couple of refurbs that failed during this time well.
Going off-topic here, but does anyone know if Coachalex claims to have a source for the false information he keeps posting? If not then I really don't understand why he feels the need to keep making stuff up and spreading false rumours.
Also have to agree with Paul about the "metro ken" announcement, not only does it sound patronising but I also feel it makes the line closure seem less important or major than it actually is!
I don't think trains with 'B' ends in service has any significance whether its endured a failure recently, sometimes it saves time I would of thought to just couple a car to another no matter what end is leading in service really. Plus in 4061 case, 4054 was paired with this car and that was in service with 61 with its B end whilst 61 was offering A end first so I highly doubt failures is the main reason really.
Yes, its all sound very "gimmicky" that PA and quite unnecessary really, never done this for the other major line closure so why should this be an exception. "Hi Metro Ken here with an important announcement"(or words to that effect) - sounds like the PA is aimed at children and NOT the general public who are mainly Adults/Teens using the metro! A tad embarrassing I feel.
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