Tyne and Wear Metro Photography

[800001]

Tyne and Wear metro causing a stir again, after posting a tweet saying only family snaps or selfies are allowed to be taken on there Network, for anything else permissions is needed.

Tweet attached below, and also the text taken from the link to there website:-

x.com

x.com

Photography

We're happy for people to take 'family snaps' and selfies with phones or cameras while on stations or trains - but remember you are on a busy railway. Be aware of your immediate surroundings, particularly on platforms, respect the privacy and needs of fellow passengers and do not use flash when trains are approaching. Our staff will approach you or use the PA system if they have any concerns.

If you want to take pictures or film as part of a larger project - including as an enthusiast - we ask that you get in touch first so we can make sure you work safely and get the most out of your time. Metro regularly receives requests for filming and photography and these can vary from film production companies to local railway enthusiasts. Each request will be considered on its own merits and an application form will need to be completed in all cases.

If you are filming on behalf of a company/organisation then procedures are detailed below. If you are an amateur photographer pursuing a project then some of the procedures may be waived. It is imperative that in all instances a safety briefing is conducted prior to any attendance on Metro premises as we need to ensure your safety as well as the travelling passengers.

Please follow the guidelines below:

• Permission to film or take photographs on Metro must be obtained in writing from Customer Relations
• Wherever possible we will try to accommodate any filming and photo requests
• For photography, filming and media requests contact the Customer Relations team on 0191 20 20 747 or email customerrelations@nexus.org.uk.
• Two weeks' notice is required so we can arrange for a Metro representative to be present
• Filming times are normally limited to off peak periods, Monday-Friday 9.30am-4.30pm. Evenings and weekends will depend on staff availability
• Flash photography is NOT permitted on Metro platforms when trains are approaching, for safety reasons

Filming

Filming of the following activities is not allowed on Metro:

• Smoking or intoxication
• Trespassing
• Fare evasion
• Use of firearms or other weapons
• Vandalism or graffiti
• Assaults on passengers or members of staff
• Misuse of escalators or other Metro property

Any person found taking photographs or filming on Metro premises will be challenged by staff if they have concerns about safety or security.

 

[DanNCL]

They’ve had this policy for as long as I can remember but for some reason they’ve recently felt the need to shout about it on Twitter.

It’s actually eased slightly as the ‘family snaps’ exception never used to be there.

I know people who’ve had an easier time photographing trains in Russia and China than on Metro. It’s ridiculous.

You’d think they’d be putting resources into dealing with actual issues, such as fare evasion, rather than focussing on telling off people who take photos.

 

[Buzby]

As a courtesy, I went to their offices and asked for a permit. They provided an 8 page application form requiring details of the ‘unit’ and vehicles/staff numbers. Filled it in as best I could only for the guy at the security desk to phone someone then tell me they’ll get back in 7-10 days!

I explained that I wanted to do it the same day as I was here - so it was suggested I not be too ‘obvious’ and the form was ripped up and binned.

Nobody stopped me.

 

[AlterEgo]

Really bizarre thing to send a tweet about. Completely misunderstanding how much they’ll be ridiculed on social media. No, I will not fill in a form to take a picture of a train.

 

[Sun Chariot]

As a courtesy, I went to their offices and asked for a permit. They provided an 8 page application form requiring details of the ‘unit’ and vehicles/staff numbers. Filled it in as best I could only for the guy at the security desk to phone someone then tell me they’ll get back in 7-10 days!

I explained that I wanted to do it the same day as I was here - so it was suggested I not be too ‘obvious’ and the form was ripped up and binned.

Nobody stopped me.

That perfectly sums up the farce we now see in the UK.
Rewind to the wet August of 1990. Scottish 7 day Rail Rover. An optimistic "ask" of the foreman at Eastfield (we'd had no depot pass on that occasion).
His Glaswegian brogue, foreign tongue to our southern ears, told us to keep our 'hi vis' vests on and keep a watch out for live movements. And around we went. Simples.
The days of personal responsibility and pragmatic approach. How I miss those times.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Sep 2024 ==

No, I will not fill in a form to take a picture of a train.

Most of my photos are taken from footpaths, bridges, fields. So I'll fill out dozens of speculative "I might want to be here at some point" forms and I'll send 'em off to the various councils and Highways Agency.

 

[Tazi Hupefi]

I have a very distant memory that this was originally brought in to protect naive photographers from getting a good hiding from the locals, and potentially relieved of their equipment, after several incidents.

I believe that when you request a permit, they brief their control room etc, and you are observed remotely, also ensuring assistance can be provided in the event that it is required.

I have no idea whether the current crop of passengers frequenting the Metro make this situation more or less likely than in the years previous.

This probably also explains why they can't really give a proper explanation that makes sense - as it would be seen as politically incorrect these days.

 

[Volvictof]

As a driver I can say that Nexus doesn’t care about people taking photographs, at least not in my experience. If someone is reported taking photos it’s because the staff member (driver, CSA, worker, etc) wants them gone. This is because we’ve all had bad experiences with people taking photos, and whilst I’m sure it’s a small minority, they ruin it for the rest of you.

I’ve had:
- people temporarily blinding me with camera flashes when I’m pulling into a station.
- people blocking my dispatch mirror and distracting me when I’m trying to dispatch and refusing to move
- verbal abuse when I naively waved at a camera trying to be friendly (apparently they don’t like you waving in their pictures)
- dressing in oranges and attempting to halt the train with hand movements, or just giving bad travel advice to passengers who think they are staff.

Colleagues have had:
- people standing in the way of a dispatch mirror and being abusive when they were asked to move to the side slightly
- trespassing to take a photo
- dressing in full oranges to look like staff so they could lay a GoPro on a foot crossing
- secretly filming staff when making enquiries and then reporting them for not being professional enough
- falsely reporting drivers for things they have made up just so they can speak to control and get clout online.

As I said, this will be a small minority, but it’s enough for us to not want them around us with the exception of the little kids who come along with their carers and just want to get a few pics in their iPads.

And let’s face it, it’s not nice to have a camera pointed in your office several times a day when you are doing a job that requires your full attention, and then to have your face posted all over Facebook. It’s just impolite.

 

[bramling]

As a driver I can say that Nexus doesn’t care about people taking photographs, at least not in my experience. If someone is reported taking photos it’s because the staff member (driver, CSA, worker, etc) wants them gone. This is because we’ve all had bad experiences with people taking photos, and whilst I’m sure it’s a small minority, they ruin it for the rest of you.

I’ve had:
- people temporarily blinding me with camera flashes when I’m pulling into a station.
- people blocking my dispatch mirror and distracting me when I’m trying to dispatch and refusing to move
- verbal abuse when I naively waved at a camera trying to be friendly (apparently they don’t like you waving in their pictures)
- dressing in oranges and attempting to halt the train with hand movements, or just giving bad travel advice to passengers who think they are staff.

Colleagues have had:
- people standing in the way of a dispatch mirror and being abusive when they were asked to move to the side slightly
- trespassing to take a photo
- dressing in full oranges to look like staff so they could lay a GoPro on a foot crossing
- secretly filming staff when making enquiries and then reporting them for not being professional enough
- falsely reporting drivers for things they have made up just so they can speak to control and get clout online.

As I said, this will be a small minority, but it’s enough for us to not want them around us with the exception of the little kids who come along with their carers and just want to get a few pics in their iPads.

And let’s face it, it’s not nice to have a camera pointed in your office several times a day when you are doing a job that requires your full attention, and then to have your face posted all over Facebook. It’s just impolite.

Gosh, I trust no metro drivers do rowing, as that’s something where you get people taking photos of you all the time, and as a task it is considerably harder than driving a train, and get something even very slightly wrong in a small boat it’s a guaranteed instant capsize!

Must admit I’ve had little trouble taking photographs on the Metro, and I’ve done quite a bit of it over the last couple of years. Indeed we found most of the staff, including drivers, to be very professional and friendly.

We have had just one encounter with staff which was at Haymarket, where observed by the control room on CCTV, and the station staff were very friendly about it and said that they’d only seen it because they were coincidentally looking at the CCTV for something else, and “don’t worry about it, give it a few minutes and carry on, by which time they’ll have a bee in their bonnet about something else”.

The far bigger problem on the metro is some of the clientele, and a degree of awareness is certainly required. I wonder if there’s some truth to the post suggesting that the reason for the policy is that there’s been problems in the past. It seems locals just aren’t particularly used to people taking photos of the metro, probably because not that many people do it. Certainly I feel rather less comfortable doing it on the metro than a comparable system like Merseyrail or Glasgow Subway, where no one bats an eyelid. It probably doesn’t help that the metro stations are quite small and tend to be fairly busy so there aren’t many places where it’s possible to find a quiet out-of-the-way spot.

 

[Tetchytyke]

I'm not sure why so many people are getting their knickers in a twist about this, the official guidelines on T&W Metro are not really very different to the official guidelines in place on the big railway: https://www.networkrail.co.uk/commu...sts/guidelines-for-taking-photos-at-stations/

As with all official guidelines, when it comes to enforcement it varies. I've never had an issue taking photos on T&W Metro but a) I use a point-and-squirt digital camera or, more regularly these days, the camera on my iPhone, b) I never use a tripod, and c) I don't hang around on stations for ages. If you rock up with professional photography equipment and a tripod then you are far more likely to have questions asked. If you're the sort of whopper who turns up in hi-viz- and we've all seen exactly those sorts of enthusiasts- then you really will have questions asked.

I'd also say that you're more likely to have questions asked if you're hanging around at Haymarket, Monument, or Central. Mostly because the trains stop right at the end of the platforms and anyone loitering is simply getting in the way.

 

[Turtle]

As a courtesy, I went to their offices and asked for a permit. They provided an 8 page application form requiring details of the ‘unit’ and vehicles/staff numbers. Filled it in as best I could only for the guy at the security desk to phone someone then tell me they’ll get back in 7-10 days!

I explained that I wanted to do it the same day as I was here - so it was suggested I not be too ‘obvious’ and the form was ripped up and binned.

Nobody stopped me.

Sounds like someone in the back office had been doing a bit of work creation.

 

[hacman]

To be honest, anyone who dresses in high-viz and attempts to stop a train with hand signals or impersonate staff needs to be dealt with by the police, and where appropriate by way of prosecution, followed by a permanent ban from the network.

Same with anyone who commits trespass or misuses level crossings.

A few people made substantial examples of should do the trick on putting that nonsense to bed.

 

[bramling]

I'm not sure why so many people are getting their knickers in a twist about this, the official guidelines on T&W Metro are not really very different to the official guidelines in place on the big railway: https://www.networkrail.co.uk/commu...sts/guidelines-for-taking-photos-at-stations/

As with all official guidelines, when it comes to enforcement it varies. I've never had an issue taking photos on T&W Metro but a) I use a point-and-squirt digital camera or, more regularly these days, the camera on my iPhone, b) I never use a tripod, and c) I don't hang around on stations for ages. If you rock up with professional photography equipment and a tripod then you are far more likely to have questions asked. If you're the sort of whopper who turns up in hi-viz- and we've all seen exactly those sorts of enthusiasts- then you really will have questions asked.

I'd also say that you're more likely to have questions asked if you're hanging around at Haymarket, Monument, or Central. Mostly because the trains stop right at the end of the platforms and anyone loitering is simply getting in the way.

There is a difference, in that on national rail (and for that matter TFL), you are comparatively unlikely to be challenged by staff providing you’re not doing anything silly, and if you are challenged just for being there then in most cases it shouldn’t be more than a “just checking what you’re doing” type encounter.

Whereas on the Metro by the letter of their rules you can’t just turn up somewhere and start doing photos on spec, without running the risk of being told to stop by staff simply for not having prior permission. And of course it doesn’t help that there’s no way to speak to station staff first, as in most cases there aren’t any - and even at the central area stations they can be pretty hard to find at certain times.

I do find it quite odd that Nexus have such an invasive policy about photography, yet seemingly very little is done about all the other anti-social behaviour that is commonplace all over the system. Add in the chronic unreliability of the metro, and in all honesty none of this adds up to being a good advert for Newcastle, or Tyne & Wear as a whole.

 

[Sunil_P]

I had an on-board CSA approach me not to take pics on Metro way back in March 2017, but on other trips I still managed to take pics of Ilford Road (naturally!!) and all the termini stations that same week. No probs taking pics at the "new" South Shields or at Tynemouth last October either.

In July this year, had security approach me and my mum not to take pics in London's Olympic Park (Stratford), with anything other than a phone, "without permission". We weren't spotting trains, just flowers and dragonflies!!

 

[Volvictof]

I do find it quite odd that Nexus have such an invasive policy about photography, yet seemingly very little is done about all the other anti-social behaviour that is commonplace all over the system. Add in the chronic unreliability of the metro, and in all honesty none of this adds up to being a good advert for Newcastle, or Tyne & Wear as a whole.

To be fair they have a pretty robust policy about ASB, it’s just not followed, and in reality if they ask you to stop taking pictures then not a lot will happen if you don’t. Similar to what happens with anti social behaviour unless there are police present.

 

[Paul_10]

I've heard about the reasoning Nexus don't want to take photos is because of the reaction of the locals(the undesirables most likely). I think this is a bit of a cop out personally, no matter where you go, there is always the likelihood of one idiot being a nuisance when there is a camera around.

However there is good places im sure people can take photos/videos that is technically not on metro property and still be of decent quality, incidentally Ilford Road(platform 2)seems the best spot for me.

With what Volvictof has reported just from their own experiences and coupled there is interest with the new units, i wonder if the social media posts are in response to those things.

 

[bramling]

I've heard about the reasoning Nexus don't want to take photos is because of the reaction of the locals(the undesirables most likely). I think this is a bit of a cop out personally, no matter where you go, there is always the likelihood of one idiot being a nuisance when there is a camera around.

I can, sort of, see this - as there’s certainly times and places on the system where it’s a good idea to have a rottweiler with you, especially if with an expensive camera. But perhaps Nexus should be attempting to address the anti-social behaviour problems.

With what Volvictof has reported just from their own experiences and coupled there is interest with the new units, i wonder if the social media posts are in response to those things.

There is bound to have been some increase in photography with the fleet change coming up, so agree this is likely. Nexus will probably have to get used to this.

 

[Volvictof]

There is bound to have been some increase in photography with the fleet change coming up, so agree this is likely. Nexus will probably have to get used to this.

Yep, we got a specific notice to staff informing us to be wary of potential dangerous actions from spotters on the day that the daylight testing started.
infact when the first unit was delivered to Hebburn there were trespassers on track.

 

[bramling]

Yep, we got a specific notice to staff informing us to be wary of potential dangerous actions from spotters on the day that the daylight testing started.
infact when the first unit was delivered to Hebburn there were trespassers on track.

Quite surprising this is happening really, as it’s always struck me how little interest there is in the metro. A small group of fairly dedicated local enthusiasts, and that’s about it.

Nexus probably don’t help themselves with their confrontational attitude. By engineering a situation where people feel they’re under suspicion just for getting a camera out, it doesn’t exactly engineer good relations. If Nexus weren’t so stroppy about the whole permission thing then maybe they might find people have more respect for the other safety requirements.

It’s quite rare to get soppy antics from enthusiasts on LU.

 

[800001]

Yep, we got a specific notice to staff informing us to be wary of potential dangerous actions from spotters on the day that the daylight testing started.
infact when the first unit was delivered to Hebburn there were trespassers on track.

Dangerous actions? Never heard anything so daft!
And trespassers most likely nothing to do with enthusiasts!

 

[Tetchytyke]

There is a difference, in that on national rail (and for that matter TFL), you are comparatively unlikely to be challenged by staff providing you’re not doing anything silly, and if you are challenged just for being there then in most cases it shouldn’t be more than a “just checking what you’re doing” type encounter.

Whereas on the Metro by the letter of their rules you can’t just turn up somewhere and start doing photos on spec, without running the risk of being told to stop by staff simply for not having prior permission.

The rules on the big railway are that you have to present yourself at the railway station's reception and sign yourself in, purchasing platform tickets if required. If you use professional equipment, especially tripods, you'll be told to leave. The rules on Metro aren't really very different.

I agree that enforcement is varied and Metro tend to enforce more, but I've not had issues on T&W Metro when I lived there. They generally only seemed to start getting annoyed at people who spent a long time at the end of a platform taking photos, or at people who set up pro or semi-pro equipment on the platform. Given how busy the main stations are, this isn't entirely unreasonable. TfL staff at sub-surface and deep level stations will also shoo you along too if you linger for too long.

Dangerous actions? Never heard anything so daft!

I've seen people walk beyond the end of the platform and along the side of the track to get that perfect photo. If that's not dangerous I'm not sure what is.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Sep 2024 ==

I've heard about the reasoning Nexus don't want to take photos is because of the reaction of the locals(the undesirables most likely)

Nothing to do with that. If you're out at one of the suburban stations (excluding South Gosforth) chances are they won't even notice that you are there. They only really seem to get grumpy at people taking photos in the city centre sub-surface stations.

 

[jh64]

I'll never understand what drives someone to put on high-vis and LARP as station staff. There's got to be better hobbies out there.

 

[hacman]

I'll never understand what drives someone to put on high-vis and LARP as station staff. There's got to be better hobbies out there.

Usually wanting to work on the railway and either being too young or having been rejected in the past when they applied, combined with strong ideas about how the railway should be run that are often at odds with what's required to actually provide the service the railway is there for.

 

[Sprinter107]

The last twice I've visited Newcastle, ive sent an email about a week or so before I've travelled there, for permission to photograph on their network, telling them I have an interest in suburban railways. I had a lovely letter back giving permission, and do's and dont's which were basically common sense. They were very kind and accommodating. I had to call in on one of the help phones at the first station I wanted to photograph at, so they knew i was on the network, which happened to be Ilford Road. I can't fault them.

 

[Segedunum]

I can concur that I've witnessed at least one person who'd wander around on the network with a tripod/camera wearing what looked exactly like the staff padded hi-vis (no longer used by customer service staff but was at the time) turned inside out.

Not that this issue is specific to Metro - I once recall someone tweeting Supertram to tell them they were sticking their Supertram hi-vis on and going to assist people with replacement buses They were quickly advised to not do that.

 

[Volvictof]

Dangerous actions? Never heard anything so daft!
And trespassers most likely nothing to do with enthusiasts!

Those ones were specifically enthusiast trespassing trying to get a picture.

 

[Buzby]

As a courtesy, I went to their offices and asked for a permit.

According to this week’s RAIL, the security desk/public counter at South Gosforth station closed last month (Aug 12th) and the replacement is email/social media etc. As I got nowhere at my last visit there, perhaps it’s not surprising, but I do miss opportunities for a public-facing interactio.

 

[Volvictof]

According to this week’s RAIL, the security desk/public counter at South Gosforth station closed last month (Aug 12th) and the replacement is email/social media etc. As I got nowhere at my last visit there, perhaps it’s not surprising, but I do miss opportunities for a public-facing interactio.

I work here and only just learned of this. It seems lost property will now be located at Four Lane Ends. It seems to be part of a larger move of most non operational staff away from GHQ, which is a shame because I enjoy speaking to staff from other departments when I’m on my break.

 

[danielnez1]

I work here and only just learned of this. It seems lost property will now be located at Four Lane Ends. It seems to be part of a larger move of most non operational staff away from GHQ, which is a shame because I enjoy speaking to staff from other departments when I’m on my break.

An anecdote, in my undergrad days I lost my wallet on the Metro after getting a bit merry. The next day I cancelled my cards and went to Gosforth to see if my wallet had been handed in. It had, along with cash notes, cards add my student buss pass. The staff were lovely too.

 

[sprunt]

The rules on the big railway are that you have to present yourself at the railway station's reception and sign yourself in, purchasing platform tickets if required. If you use professional equipment, especially tripods, you'll be told to leave. The rules on Metro aren't really very different.

"Let the staff know that you're there" is substantially different from "Fill in a form a week in advance".

 

[GDKEnts]

An anecdote, in my undergrad days I lost my wallet on the Metro after getting a bit merry. The next day I cancelled my cards and went to Gosforth to see if my wallet had been handed in. It had, along with cash notes, cards add my student buss pass. The staff were lovely too.

So refreshing to read something so positive that nothing had been touched and simply handed in.