Tyndrum (Upper and Lower)

[JamieL]

I understand that Tyndrum is the smallest village in the world to have two railway stations. Clearly this is a consequence of the junction at Crianlarich where the Oban line branches from the West Highland line. But it seems strange that the small village retained two stations post-Beeching. Anyone travelling up to Glasgow is served equally by both as the trains join at Crianlarich. And for down passengers Oban is presumably the main destination as it is a shorter journey to the supermarket. It is difficult to imagine many Tyndrum passengers bound for Fort William.

Given the above, it seems odd that Tyndrum Lower wasn't retained as the sole station and Tyndrum Higher closed. Was there any reason which kept both open? And why are both still open?

 

[Gloster]

If you closed the Upper, where would the sleepers call?

 

[JamieL]

If you closed the Upper, where would the sleepers call?

Yes, a very good point. I wonder if much CS traffic alight there though?

 

[zwk500]

I imagine traffic patterns in the 1960s were quite different to today. The sleeper would probably have been viewed as very important in the context of slower daytime trains and much more need to travel to do business in person. Nowadays do the stations form part of the operating procedure for the junction in the Up/southbound direction?

 

[BlueLeanie]

Tyndrum Upper for sleeper services
Tyndrum Lower for Oban High

 

[Class 170101]

Might be of more value if the Sleeper had three departures from Euston
Lowland, Inverness / Aberdeen and Oban / Fort William

 

[Big Jumby 74]

There are many tourist walks/cycle ways in the West Highlands these days which rely on such stations being kept open, these tourist ways etc, being (in many cases) the original routes that the Army marched from Scotland to all parts South in years past, long before any railway existed in the area, but the very reason these routes exist today.

 

[zwk500]

Might be of more value if the Sleeper had three departures from Euston
Lowland, Inverness / Aberdeen and Oban / Fort William

Is there really the market for that, or would you open the West Highland train up to Edinburgh passengers as well?

 

[Peter0124]

Is there really the market for that, or would you open the West Highland train up to Edinburgh passengers as well?

Wouldn't it be better to just run the West Highlander direct via Glasgow in that case as the split could happen at Carstairs, or maybe Crianlarich if it can handle it?

 

[zwk500]

Wouldn't it be better to just run the West Highlander direct via Glasgow in that case as the split could happen at Carstairs, or maybe Crianlarich?

You are still going to need something other than London-West Highland passengers to cover the costs of running a dedicated train. At the moment 1 16-carriage train covers all 3 destinations.

 

[Mojo]

ls there really much cost of keeping a station open in such the circumstances, especially at low-speed locations such as this? Many of the Beeching-era closures took place at a time where stations were quite heavily manned, and were criticised for failing to consider other ways of reducing costs such as de-staffing, replacing expensive-to-maintain buildings with simpler shelters, etc., which is not so much of an issue today.

 

[SuspectUsual]

The trains didn't split/join at Crianlarich in the Beeching era though did they?

 

[zwk500]

ls there really much cost of keeping a station open in such the circumstances, especially at low-speed locations such as this? Many of the Beeching-era closures took place at a time where stations were quite heavily manned, and were criticised for failing to consider other ways of reducing costs such as de-staffing, replacing expensive-to-maintain buildings with simpler shelters, etc., which is not so much of an issue today.

Was either Tyndrum station a Block Post before RETB came in? If it was just an unstaffed platform then there probably wasn't much to be gained from closure - it's not like the site would be particularly valuable for development.

 

[Class 170101]

Is there really the market for that, or would you open the West Highland train up to Edinburgh passengers as well?

Maybe in the summer, but might worth opening to Edinburgh as you say, but to be honest is there a big market for any of the sleeper services?

 

[Bevan Price]

The trains didn't split/join at Crianlarich in the Beeching era though did they?

No. Oban trains ran via Stirling and Callander - until that route was closed.

 

[Railsigns]

I understand that Tyndrum is the smallest village in the world to have two railway stations. Clearly this is a consequence of the junction at Crianlarich where the Oban line branches from the West Highland line.

It's not a consequence of the junction at Crianlarich; Tyndrum has two stations (and Crianlarich used to have two) because the Callander and Oban Railway and the West Highland Railway both constructed separate lines through Strath Fillan, each with their own separate stations.

If Upper Tyndrum station was closed, every train would still need to stop there because it's an RETB token exchange point. It's also the boundary between the north and south RETB interlocking areas and a crossing loop location.

 

[BlueLeanie]

You're overthinking this.

Even today, there's a reason why the first train of the day into Oban is at 08:35, and there's a service that goes to Dalmally just after 16:00

Oban station is a 10 minute walk from Oban High.

 

[Gloster]

Was either Tyndrum station a Block Post before RETB came in? If it was just an unstaffed platform then there probably wasn't much to be gained from closure - it's not like the site would be particularly valuable for development.

My well-thumbed 1978 rail atlas shows Upper as a passing loop, but not Lower. I think the loop at Lower went fairly early; Railscot says 1969.

The trains didn't split/join at Crianlarich in the Beeching era though did they?

Until the end of 1965 the trains to Oban came via Callender, with only a few excursions using the connection.

 

[Railsigns]

Tyndrum Upper for sleeper services
Tyndrum Lower for Oban High

Tyndrum is just outside the catchment area for Oban High School, as well as being in a different council area.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

I remember in my bashing days that there were some good moves available. Class 37 to upper, then walk to lower and another Class 37 etc.

 

[hermit]

No one has mentioned the most interesting question, which is why the stations are named Upper Tyndrum and Tyndrum Lower, with the adjectives respectively before and after the place name.

 

[SuspectUsual]

No one has mentioned the most interesting question, which is why the stations are named Upper Tyndrum and Tyndrum Lower, with the adjectives respectively before and after the place name.

For clarity when RETB was introduced. Up until then there was consistency

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 5 Mar 2024 ==

Until the end of 1965 the trains to Oban came via Callender, with only a few excursions using the connection.

Indeed. And then separate trains until after sprinterisation

 

[Mag_seven]

No one has mentioned the most interesting question, which is why the stations are named Upper Tyndrum and Tyndrum Lower, with the adjectives respectively before and after the place name.

So as to avoid communication confusions when using RETB signalling.

 

[BlueLeanie]

Tyndrum is just outside the catchment area for Oban High School, as well as being in a different council area.

We're talking 1965. From what I can see Stirling Council wouldn't have existed back then, the predecessor Central Council wouldn't have existed back then, and according to old maps it was in Perthshire.

There have always been local arrangements for awkward geography and access to services. They probably took the train to McLaren High in Callander until the line closed.

 

[hexagon789]

The trains didn't split/join at Crianlarich in the Beeching era though did they?

Only since Sprinterisation. Even when the C&O shut, Oban trains ran seperate from Fort William/Mallaig ones.

Until the end of 1965 the trains to Oban came via Callender, with only a few excursions using the connection.

There was a regular SX limited stop 'Diesel Express' from Glasgow Queen Street to Oban in the morning and vice-versa in the evening since 1962 running via the West Highland to Oban instead of the C&O route. Complementing the 4 day trains and one sleeper via the traditional route.

 

[Gloster]

We're talking 1965. From what I can see Stirling Council wouldn't have existed back then, the predecessor Central Council wouldn't have existed back then, and according to old maps it was in Perthshire.

There have always been local arrangements for awkward geography and access to services. They probably took the train to McLaren High in Callander until the line closed.

I have a feeling that they might have been weekly boarders somewhere. There was a weekday turn when the Killin branch train went to Callender in the afternoon to bring the Killin children back, but on Fridays it went through from Callender to (I think) Luib with the weekly boarders, before returning to Killin Junction to collect the Killin children who had been kicking their heels at the Junction. I would therefore presume that Tyndrum’s children also boarded somewhere; perhaps they also boarded at Callender, but had to wait for a later train home to avoid really messing up the Killin branch service.

 

[The exile]

Anyone travelling up to Glasgow is served equally by both as the trains join at Crianlarich.

Given the above, it seems odd that Tyndrum Lower wasn't retained as the sole station and Tyndrum Higher closed. Was there any reason which kept both open? And why are both still open?

The trains may join / split at Crianlarich now - but that was not the case prior to the introduction of multiple units.
Sorry - this has already been said!

 

[Cantab26]

We're talking 1965. From what I can see Stirling Council wouldn't have existed back then, the predecessor Central Council wouldn't have existed back then, and according to old maps it was in Perthshire.

It was in the Western District of Perth.

There have always been local arrangements for awkward geography and access to services. They probably took the train to McLaren High in Callander until the line closed.

They did - and now travel back and forth by bus.

I have a feeling that they might have been weekly boarders somewhere. There was a weekday turn when the Killin branch train went to Callender in the afternoon to bring the Killin children back, but on Fridays it went through from Callender to (I think) Luib with the weekly boarders, before returning to Killin Junction to collect the Killin children who had been kicking their heels at the Junction. I would therefore presume that Tyndrum’s children also boarded somewhere; perhaps they also boarded at Callender, but had to wait for a later train home to avoid really messing up the Killin branch service.

Yes, at the time there were weekly boarders at McLaren.

Killin was also formerly a junior high school and took pupils up to Second Year to reduce the need to travel and board.

And it’s Callander, not Callender.

 

[Gloster]

Yes, at the time there were weekly boarders at McLaren.

I looked at a contemporary map and you crossed into Dunbarton a short way south and into Argyll a short way west, while to the north there is nothing, so I presume that pupils from Crianlarich and Tyndrum would have weekly boarded. I presume that the school day was arranged to allow them to arrive on the 06.05 Oban, at least on Monday.

And it’s Callander, not Callender.

I was concentrating too much on getting the last vowel correct!

 

[hermit]

There are many tourist walks/cycle ways in the West Highlands these days which rely on such stations being kept open, these tourist ways etc, being (in many cases) the original routes that the Army marched from Scotland to all parts South in years past, long before any railway existed in the area, but the very reason these routes exist today.

Most notably, the West Highland Way, which has become extremely popular in recent years, passes through Tyndrum on its way from Milngavie to Fort William. There must be a lot of walkers who make a planned or unplanned stop there. If you are tired and/or wet I don’t think you would care which of the stations you used to escape, and would be glad that trains on both lines stopped there.

The Tyndrum stations are also used as jumping-off points for the surrounding hills. I have vivid memories of the Lower station where a friend and I parked when climbing Ben Lui. After a long but rewarding expedition we returned to discover that my friend had lost his car keys on the mountain. We then became very familiar with the limited amenities of the station for a couple of hours while waiting for the AA to come and open up the car. The midges didn’t help.

Incidentally, the passenger statistics show that usage of the stations is roughly equal - 4,000+ each pa. So if there was a move to ’rationalise’ it would be hard to decide which one to close.