Two together resolved many thanks

[g2theb]

My friend and I travelled from Durham to Newcastle by ignorance I don't know what two together is, so I bought the ticket for 2 of us as it was my first time


When we were in the train the asked for railcars and I said its at home knowing its a card like a paper that they usually ask, or the ticket which ended having us with irregularity report and they asked us to send the rail card if I found it home, by doing research I know what now that so I bought two together and send it to them via email as discussed after the incident has been raised. And they replied

It has been confirmed that you purchased your railcard on 02/07/24 at 10:47. This indicates that you did not have a railcard when you added the discount to the ticket and starting your journey. As a result, this does not validate your ticket. Due to the railcard being purchased after the Ticket Irregularity Report was issued, this shows that you are not entitled to the discount that was applied to your ticket. To intentionally avoid paying the appropriate fare for your journey is an offence under the Byelaws of the Railway. The terms and conditions of the railcard state

I don't know how to handle this kind of situation as it was my first time please help me

 

[AlterEgo]

My friend and I travelled from Durham to Newcastle by ignorance I don't know what two together is, so I bought the ticket for 2 of us as it was my first time


When we were in the train the asked for railcars and I said its at home knowing its a card like a paper that they usually ask, or the ticket which ended having us with irregularity report and they asked us to send the rail card if I found it home, by doing research I know what now that so I bought two together and send it to them via email as discussed after the incident has been raised. And they replied

It has been confirmed that you purchased your railcard on 02/07/24 at 10:47. This indicates that you did not have a railcard when you added the discount to the ticket and starting your journey. As a result, this does not validate your ticket. Due to the railcard being purchased after the Ticket Irregularity Report was issued, this shows that you are not entitled to the discount that was applied to your ticket. To intentionally avoid paying the appropriate fare for your journey is an offence under the Byelaws of the Railway. The terms and conditions of the railcard state

I don't know how to handle this kind of situation as it was my first time please help me

Well, trying to pull the wool over their eyes hasn't helped, as they weren't born yesterday and can look up when the railcard was bought!

Ordinarily, you should reply, admit to having the wrong ticket with the wrong discount, and offer to pay the outstanding fare plus any administrative costs the company has incurred. However, you seem to have cut their email off - so please post it in full so we can see if they are making any specific offer or threat of prosecution.

 

[Deafdoggie]

You claim you didn't know what "two together" was, yet told the inspector it was at home. These can't both be true. If you didn't know what it was, surely you'd have just told the inspector that?

If you reply, it's best to be honest if you want a positive outcome.

 

[g2theb]

Here is the continuation after that email

8. You must carry your valid Railcard with you on your journey. When asked by rail staff, you must show a valid ticket and valid Railcard within its period of validity when you travel.


2.8.1. If you have a physical Railcard, it must be signed by you and should be legible so staff can read it, as further detailed in the NRCoT.

2.8.2 If you bought your physical Railcard at a rail station, you must carry your Railcard Photocard with you on your journey.

2.8.3. If you have a digital Railcard, you must be able to show it on a mobile device throughout your journey.

2.9. If you fail to comply with condition 2.7 and/or 2.8, the Train Company reserves the right to charge you the full price for the single fare applicable to your journey, as if no ticket had been purchased before starting the journey. In some cases, you may also be issued with a Penalty Fare. If you are using your Railcard to get discounts for another person,

2.10. Fraudulent applications and fraudulent use of Railcards and Railcard discounted tickets may lead to criminal prosecution.




But I emailed them back

How much is the penalty as I don't know what two together is I thought that ticket he was asking is a ticket that is like a card, as I don't know how to together works, if by any chance how much it would cause for the penalty for this incident? Cause if says in the website its 10,004 and I don't have that kind of money


And they replied
The price you see is an automatic price applied whilst the compliance team

investigate the matter and decide the outcome of the report. Once they have reached a decision, the amount is changed and a letter of stating the outcome is sent to you.



And I emailed them back

This is regarding the incident that happened a while ago, I would like to offer my sincere apologies for my ignorance as I am not sure about what I just purchased and I said to train master that I have a rail card that I thought it was a ticket in the app or in the phone or a ticket like a paper that I usually present to the train master, due to anxiety and stressed I said the train master that I left and made a research about what is two together hence I purchased this railway card straight away to send it as I thought that's the process as it was my first time to have this incident.


Again I am deeply asking for apology and hoping this would settle outside from the court and me and my friend is happy to settle the penalty and willing to pay the full price of our journey and the penalty as stated on previous email, this incident gave me an opportunity to learn more about it and it will be helpful for me as a user of transpenine express

My apologies and many thanks

 

[SuspectUsual]

So, you looked in the section called “railcards” and found two together listed along with all the other age related railcards, armed forces etc etc.

And you thought that meant it was something that entitled people travelling together to use it just like that?

I’m sorry but that fails the sniff test

If you’re honest and cooperate, you should be able to extricate yourself from this without it escalating as far as a court case, but you do need to be honest

 

[g2theb]

So, you looked in the section called “railcards” and found two together listed along with all the other age related railcards, armed forces etc etc.

And you thought that meant it was something that entitled people travelling together to use it just like that?

I’m sorry but that fails the sniff test

If you’re honest and cooperate, you should be able to extricate yourself from this without it escalating as far as a court case, but you do need to be honest

I did admit my mistake to my email and I said to them that I am fully aware about this and I am happy to settle

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Jul 2024 ==

So, you looked in the section called “railcards” and found two together listed along with all the other age related railcards, armed forces etc etc.

And you thought that meant it was something that entitled people travelling together to use it just like that?

I’m sorry but that fails the sniff test

If you’re honest and cooperate, you should be able to extricate yourself from this without it escalating as far as a court case, but you do need to be honest

At last email I've said to them that i admit my mistake and it will never happened and I said to them that I learned my mistake

 

[Mcr Warrior]

@g2theb. Welcome to the forum. Assume that inspection of your online ticket purchasing history won't show any other instances of tickets having been purchased / used with railcard discounts having been inappropriately or incorrectly claimed.

Assuming not, there's a decent chance of you still being able to negotiate a so-called "out of court" settlement with the train company. Reckon you're possibly looking at having to pay £5.80 (the full Anytime Day Single fare from Durham to Newcastle) plus a three figure sum towards the train company's investigation + admin fees.

Your friend might also be looking at similar.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Broadly, it seems that after the original error the OP has been trying to do the right thing - they tried to put things right (although as we've seen, that didn't actually work) and they've kept in touch with the railway, being apologetic.

If I've understood things properly, the OP is now waiting for the railway to get back to them. If so, I expect that the reply will be one of two:

- an offer for the OP to settle out of court: typically that will involve the OP having to pay the full price for the train fares that they should have paid, plus an 'admin fee' if maybe £150. So in all, something like £200 - £250. OR
- the railway will want to take you to court. On the basis of what you've told us, you would lose, which would mean having to pay a fine (amount varies) plus compensation (the fare you should have paid) plus court costs plus prosecution costs. Very broadly this is likely to amount to more than the out of court settlement - and while it's not a serious crime, it is a crime so for a limited amount of time employers and so on would have the right to ask you if you had a criminal record. But in particular note that realistically you will not be paying £1,000 and you will not be going to prison

As @Mcr Warrior has said while I was writing this, there seems to be a fair chance of getting an out of court settlement. My suggestion would be to keep an eye out for the railway's next letter or email to you and then let us see it (hide all your personal details so the whole internet doesn't know what you have done!). If necessary we'll be able to make suggestions on what to do next.

 

[g2theb]

Thanks I'm just waiting for the email from them, hoping to make settle it, it worries me a lot as I don't often use trains. I appreciate your advise.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Jul 2024 ==

@g2theb. Welcome to the forum. Assume that inspection of your online ticket purchasing history won't show any other instances of tickets having been purchased / used with railcard discounts having been inappropriately or incorrectly claimed.

Assuming not, there's a decent chance of you still being able to negotiate a so-called "out of court" settlement with the train company. Reckon you're possibly looking at having to pay £5.80 (the full Anytime Day Single fare from Durham to Newcastle) plus a three figure sum towards the train company's investigation + admin fees.

Your friend might also be looking at similar.

I haven't had any circumstances that use this as I don't usually use trains as often.

 

[WesternLancer]

For a non regular railway user the fact that there is a ticket for 2 people travelling together that gives a discount called a 'Northern Duo' ticket does create a potential for a level of confusion if you live in the north/ Northern Trains operating area and might have seen publicity for this but not understood it's not the same as possessing a 'Two Together National Railcard'

Duo tickets

Northern | Buy Cheap Train Tickets and Check Train Times

www.northernrailway.co.uk

 

[g2theb]

@g2theb. Welcome to the forum. Assume that inspection of your online ticket purchasing history won't show any other instances of tickets having been purchased / used with railcard discounts having been inappropriately or incorrectly claimed.

Assuming not, there's a decent chance of you still being able to negotiate a so-called "out of court" settlement with the train company. Reckon you're possibly looking at having to pay £5.80 (the full Anytime Day Single fare from Durham to Newcastle) plus a three figure sum towards the train company's investigation + admin fees.

Your friend might also be looking at similar.

Hi @Mcr Warrior my friend has already received the generic mail from the post and mine hasn't, is there anything that I could do about this? Is there investigation of this further?

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Hi @Mcr Warrior my friend has already received the generic mail from the post and mine hasn't, is there anything that I could do about this? Is there investigation of this further?

Be right in saying that you only got stopped a couple of days or so ago? Slightly surprised that your friend has heard from the train company already; you might just have to wait a little longer. Take it any e-correspondence hasn't ended up in a spam folder?

By the way, which train company are you dealing with? LNER? Transpennine Express? Northern? Cross Country?

 

[g2theb]

Be right in saying that you only got stopped a couple of days or so ago? Slightly surprised that your friend has heard from the train company already; you might just have to wait a little longer. Take it any e-correspondence hasn't ended up in a spam folder?

By the way, which train company are you dealing with? LNER? Transpennine Express? Northern? Cross Country?

Incident happened on 2/07/24 both of us
I emailed them today asking about mine and they replied

Thank you for your email.

We can confirm our debt recovery and prosecutions team are investigating the matter and further correspondence will be sent in the post. Please await the outcome in the post.

Its to express

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Jul 2024 ==

Be right in saying that you only got stopped a couple of days or so ago? Slightly surprised that your friend has heard from the train company already; you might just have to wait a little longer. Take it any e-correspondence hasn't ended up in a spam folder?

By the way, which train company are you dealing with? LNER? Transpennine Express? Northern? Cross Country?

I also checked my spam and there is no email that was sent

 

[skyhigh]

Just wait for them to contact you. Do not contact them.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Just wait for them to contact you. Do not contact them.

Think the OP may already have done so. Post #4 refers.

 

[g2theb]

Does it cause delay if I contact them?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 5 Jul 2024 ==

Just wait for them to contact you. Do not contact them.

Does it cause delay if I contact them?

 

[notmyrealname]

It's very likely that they won't be able to match up your message with their file if they have a backlog of cases. If you wait until they get in touch, you'll have a reference number.

 

[Hadders]

There is nothing to be gained by contacting the train company ahead of receiving their letter.

They are unlikely to be able to match it up with your case - they deal with hundreds of cases at any one time, and they might not have received the report from the inspector yet.
You don't know what the train company are going to say in their letter and so there is a risk that you say something that incriminates yourself.

When the letter comes post a copy of it in this thread (with personal details redacted) along with your draft reply and forum members will be happy to proof read it for you.

 

[Snow1964]

My friend and I travelled from Durham to Newcastle by ignorance I don't know what two together is, so I bought the ticket for 2 of us as it was my first time

Let's be clear, did you :

Buy 2 (adult) tickets, for two people travelling
or Buy 1 ticket, and then select with Two Together Railcard
or Buy 2 tickets, and then select with Two Together Railcard

 

[g2theb]

There is nothing to be gained by contacting the train company ahead of receiving their letter.

They are unlikely to be able to match it up with your case - they deal with hundreds of cases at any one time, and they might not have received the report from the inspector yet.
You don't know what the train company are going to say in their letter and so there is a risk that you say something that incriminates yourself.

When the letter comes post a copy of it in this thread (with personal details redacted) along with your draft reply and forum members will be happy to proof read it for you.

Does it make sometimes for them to have the letter its been a week that it happened im starting to get worried about it now

 

[Hadders]

Does it make sometimes for them to have the letter its been a week that it happened im starting to get worried about it now

No, as previously explained it’s best to wait for the train company to write to you.

 

[30907]

No, as previously explained it’s best to wait for the train company to write to you.

And it may take some time for the letter to arrive (which is my take on the OP's question) - if you are leaving Durham over the summer make sure you can access your mail.

 

[g2theb]

And it may take some time for the letter to arrive (which is my take on the OP's question) - if you are leaving Durham over the summer make sure you can access your mail.

Ive got no plans soo im just going to wait many thanks

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 Jul 2024 ==

And it may take some time for the letter to arrive (which is my take on the OP's question) - if you are leaving Durham over the summer make sure you can access your mail.

And it may take some time for the letter to arrive (which is my take on the OP's question) - if you are leaving Durham over the summer make sure you can access your mail.

No, as previously explained it’s best to wait for the train company to write to you.

Thanks i just going to wait then , my already sorted his iregularity report last week and mine hasnt come yet i will just wait as you said many thanks hadders

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 Jul 2024 ==

No, as previously explained it’s best to wait for the train company to write to you.

hi hadders : just a quick question i just checked tp express online payment and apparently they change it already to 140£ same with my friend but i havent recieved any letters for my ticket irregularity report do i need to pay it now or should i just wait for the letter many thanks

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 Jul 2024 ==

hi hadders : just a quick question i just checked tp express online payment and apparently they change it already to 140£ same with my friend but i havent recieved any letters for my ticket irregularity report do i need to pay it now or should i just wait for the letter many thanks

 

[Hadders]

It sounds as though a letter's on its wayt to you asking you to pay £140.

 

[g2theb]

It sounds as though a letter's on its wayt to you asking you to pay £140.

Can i pay this without the letter yet ? Many thanks

 

[AlterEgo]

Can i pay this without the letter yet ? Many thanks

You should wait for the letter to make sure it makes sense. Don’t pay anything without receiving correspondence from them.

 

[simonw]

Can i pay this without the letter yet ? Many thanks

They will need to match the payment to a reference number, without the letter you won't know the reference number. So no best not too. And also you don't know what the fine will be.

 

[greyman42]

They will need to match the payment to a reference number, without the letter you won't know the reference number. So no best not too. And also you don't know what the fine will be.

It is a settlement, not a fine by the courts, so you need not worry about a criminal record.

 

[simonw]

It is a settlement, not a fine. Only courts can issue fines.

Not according to most English dictionaries.

By way of example

https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/fine

 

[Deafdoggie]

It is a settlement, not a fine. Only courts can issue fines.

Every dictionary doesn't make that distinction. The only place that does is this forum. Goodness only knows why, it doesn't help any posters, or add anything to the thread. But people on here get obsessed with it. It really doesn't matter, everyone knows what they mean