Two Together Railcard

[MikeWh]

I'm saying it should be local to where people live.

Well you really are opening a can of worms there then. How local should it be? Some of the stations around here actively encourage people to stop driving towards London and take the train for the last bit. Bexley is a case in point with prominent signs on the A2 trunk road directing you to the car park. Now I don't know how far out people might come from, but the A2 starts in Dover and the last but one junction before Bexley is the M25.

And in anycase, what is the problem with buying a season ticket for somewhere remote from where you live? The revenue from the "Ticket to Ryde" helps to sustain the Island line so who is losing? I'd wager that a fair number of journeys made using any Gold card would not be made (by rail) if the discount didn't exist. So it's still generating income when it's used.

 

[jon0844]

I think the interpretation of commuters paying the most is like the way Trainline.com twists things to make out you can save 43% on tickets.

When I was commuting, I paid around £3,500 a year. Yes I could go back and forth to London the same day (which I maybe did a few times in almost ten years), and enjoy free travel at weekends (perhaps 20-30 times a year - although of course I rarely went alone, so at least one other ticket was purchased, albeit at 1/3 off).

So, yes, I paid a lot more than I do now.. which is maybe £200-250 a year in total.

But, those tickets I have now cost me a lot more than my season did. Yet, as most of my trips are off-peak, the difference isn't actually that much. So I have to pay to travel at weekends? No problem given there's the super off-peak Travelcard available, which thanks to no minimum charge on a railcard at weekends, is dirt cheap - so season ticket holders really aren't benefiting as much as they perhaps were.

 

[Goatboy]

However, why would couples warrent special treatment over and above singletons ? If anything, a childless couple is likely to have a greater disposable income due to economies of scale in sharing housing costs etc.

I don't agree couples should get special treatment over singletons but why should the availability of rail discounts be based on need of the poeple rather than need of the country as a whole?

Offering discounts will get people out of cars and onto the train. I use the train wherever possible because I like trains but often its no cheaper, sometimes more expensive, than driving my not-very-fuel-efficient car. I want to travel from Devon to Holyhead - 2 of us - in December. Two offpeak returns (The available advance tickets don't seem ferry-friendly) are a staggering £320 so no matter how much I fancy the North Wales coast line it just makes no sense to use rail over the car for that trip.

A national railcard would change the economics of decisions like that and get more people off the road and onto public transport.

If I find a comedy price rail ticket - which I often do - I simply don't bother with the train and drive. I don't pay up anyway. So surely it's the railways continuing loss to have no sort of national railcard to encourage people who drive but would like to use the train to do so? They get zero out of me for my trip in December rather than, say, just over 200 quid with a railcard which I'd probably pay.

 

[transmanche]

I want to travel from Devon to Holyhead - 2 of us - in December. Two offpeak returns (The available advance tickets don't seem ferry-friendly) are a staggering £320 so no matter how much I fancy the North Wales coast line it just makes no sense to use rail over the car for that trip.

£320?!?! You've been ripped off.

The walk-up fares for Sail Rail are about a quarter of that price. £41-£48 single from Devon (depending on which ferry you go on) - advances are £5 cheaper.

 

[Goatboy]

£320?!?! You've been ripped off.

Thats the price of two offpeak returns.

The walk-up fares for Sail Rail are about a quarter of that price. £41-£48 single from Devon (depending on which ferry you go on) - advances are £5 cheaper.

How is the walkup fare cheaper than a walkup fare with no ferry? I'm not saying you are wrong - I'd be very very happy to be proven wrong on this one.

Edit: Wow, you are right. Crazy! What a great deal.

 

[transmanche]

How is the walkup fare cheaper than a walkup fare with no ferry? I'm not saying you are wrong - I'd be very very happy to be proven wrong on this one.

I'm not wrong. I've used the Sail Rail fares many times. As for why? Well, nothing is sensible in how UK rail fares are structured...

Full list of fares.

 

[yorksrob]

I don't agree couples should get special treatment over singletons but why should the availability of rail discounts be based on need of the poeple rather than need of the country as a whole?

I agree. A national railcard could replace all of them.

 

[Goatboy]

I'm not wrong. I've used the Sail Rail fares many times. As for why? Well, nothing is sensible in how UK rail fares are structured...

Full list of fares.

Absolutely fantastic deal. Wow!

I am now being thwarted by timings though, its almost 10-11 hours. Wondering whether its worth combining car and train. Can you think of any station thats both convenient to Holyhead (ie 2-3 hours by train) *and* offers secure inexpensive car parking? This probably needs it own thread..

 

[transmanche]

Plymouth to Holyhead advanced singles start at £30.00

And (as I previously mentioned) the Sail Rail Advance fares for the same journey start at £36.

With the advantage that they a) include the ferry fare, b) are available up until 18:00 the day before travel and c) are IME never sold out.

 

[Goatboy]

But anyway, irrespective of the epic deal you've highlighted on Sailrail I think the gist of my point in this thread was sound - railcard discounts are as much about encouraging new people to use offpeak rail as they are about enabling those with less spending power to use offpeak rail.

The lack of a national railcard is a confusing omission.

 

[yorksrob]

Yes but in the area the Network South East card is valid in you will find no cheap advanced fare tickets like you do in the area its not covered in
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Plymouth to Holyhead advanced singles start at £30.00

Not true at all.

For some longer distance fares on the South Western division such as London - Weymouth and London - Exeter (via Honiton) there is the choice of an advanced fare or a Network Card fare (which works out as slightly more expensive than the advanced fare). On my recent journey, I opted to pay slightly more for the Network Card fare to get the increased flexibility.

Similarly, on the Regional network, there are a hell of a lot of middle distance journeys for which there are no advanced fares, and for which a Network Card discount would be an ideal marketing tool.

The more I think of it, the clearer it becomes to me that the two are actually aimed at slightly different markets. Advanced fares to attract occasional travellers who do not normally use the train, as opposed to Network Card fares, to get the most custom out of regular travellers.

 

[Lampshade]

The lack of a national railcard is a confusing omission.

It's all very clear, note these are generalisations but reasonable assumptions.

Students: Always skint, would probably not travel by train very much, offer a railcard.

Disabled people: Not frequent travellers for obvious reasons, offer a railcard.

Families: Would probably drive usually, offer a railcard.

Armed forces: The armed forces is only a small subset of the population, offer a railcard.

Local railcards: Quiet lines, the rise in passenger numbers would stop the lines making a loss, offer a railcard.

Everyone else: Well they're all travelling by train anyway, charge 'em top whack.

 

[jon0844]

Students at Uni are quite likely far from home, so they almost fit into a category of people who need to travel, to see family or their friends (as well as friends who went off to a different university). AND they're skint!

Sent from my XT890 using Tapatalk 2

 

[snail]

The lack of a national railcard is a confusing omission.

but how much would fares have to increase to fund one? Or are you expecting to pay for your discounted travel through extortionate fares applied to those without one?

The more railcards there are, the less benefit there is to having one.

I don't think the forum would be able to cope with the increase in 'I forgot my railcard and was charged full fare' threads...

 

[ainsworth74]

but how much would fares have to increase to fund one? Or are you expecting to pay for your discounted travel through extortionate fares applied to those without one?

Are you sure that it would have a negative impact on revenue? I make many journey's that I wouldn't make otherwise due to the discount afforded me by my railcard and I know I'm not alone in that. Now I'm sure that ATOC and the TOC won't see it in that way, but personally, I'm not so convinced that in the long term it would have a negative impact. Indeed I think it might end up being revenue neutral or even slightly positive.

 

[yorksrob]

Indeed. Railfuture compiled the following study in 2003 that concluded that a National railcard would make money for the industry through increased fare revenue and revenues from the sale of the railcard itself:

http://www.railfuture.org.uk/National+Rail+Card

 

[sheff1]

I'm saying it should be local to where people live.

This is like only being able to buy a ticket from Reading West if you can provide proof of residency ... a policy apparently trialled by FGW

 

[CockneySparrow]

This is like only being able to buy a ticket from Reading West if you can provide proof of residency ... a policy apparently trialled by FGW

There is a Devon railcard only available to those living local and obviously local lines, think there are a couple more similar ones around as well

 

[Goatboy]

but how much would fares have to increase to fund one? Or are you expecting to pay for your discounted travel through extortionate fares applied to those without one?

Why would they need to increase? More journeys would be undertaken - not simply the same number but at lower fares. I'd use the train even more than I do now, whereas currently I'm as likely to take the car as I am to take the train due to some of the ticket pricing.

The more available reasonably priced offpeak travel is the less people will chose to use the car. This is additional revenue for TOC's.

 

[jon0844]

but how much would fares have to increase to fund one? Or are you expecting to pay for your discounted travel through extortionate fares applied to those without one?

The more railcards there are, the less benefit there is to having one.

I don't think the forum would be able to cope with the increase in 'I forgot my railcard and was charged full fare' threads...

How do the railcards work in Germany where you can get cards offering 50% and even 100% off (i.e. an ALR in effect)? Presumably you're stung pretty heavily if you forget the railcard? I am not therefore concerned about the problems of a national railcard to those who choose to leave it at home, or try it on without actually having one. Why should I suffer to protect them?

I'd pay for a national railcard and pay more than £26 or whatever a railcard costs these days. And I'd consider paying even more for a railcard that offered bigger discounts.

They'd still have restrictions to stop commuters buying them, so what would the problem be? Even if some people managed to change their hours to benefit, would that be a problem either? Commuter trains are often running around half empty for some of the day, so why not encourage more people to fill them.

I can't see enough people being able to switch to suddenly make the peak trains empty out, but they might be more comfortable and even save on having to extend trains or find more rolling stock for those hours - when they're overkill the rest of the day.

 

[transmanche]

How do the railcards work in Germany where you can get cards offering 50% and even 100% off (i.e. an ALR in effect)?

Here's the offer:

BahnCard 25 (25% off standard and advance fares)
€59 standard, €119 1st class

BahnCard 50 (50% off standard fares only)
€240 standard, €482 1st class
Card is half-price for under 27s and over 60s.

BahnCard 100 (unlimited travel on all DB services)
€3,990 standard, €6,690 1st class
Free BahnCard 25 for a partner

Tickets bought with BahnCard for journeys more than 100km also include an equivalent to PlusBus (bus, tram, S-Bahn & U-Bahn) in most urban areas.

Apparently more than 4 million people (approx 5% of the German population) has a BahnCard and more than half the passenger revenue of the long-diatnace arm of DB comes from tickets bought with a BahnCard.

Also according to DB, the average BahnCard 25 holder makes 10 journeys a year - the average BahnCard 50 holder makes 50 journeys a year.

I'd pay for a national railcard and pay more than £26 or whatever a railcard costs these days. And I'd consider paying even more for a railcard that offered bigger discounts.

I'd certainly pay the equivalent £ prices for a card which gave the same discounts as a BahnCard.

 

[BestWestern]

Doomed to fail from the start. ATOC doesn't want a national railcard, so it thought of such a flawed idea for one (who travels with the same person every time they use the train, really?), poorly promoted and poorly managed - they could have introduced a 'people who own a pet llama railcard' or a 'big ears railcard' and it would have had the same effect, they deliberately created a product with no demand so they can now dismiss any future suggestion of a full national railcard.

Presumably the holder of the Big Ears Railcard would need to have at least one Noddy travelling with them to qualify for discount?!

 

[jon0844]

I am still seeking a llama that likes train travel, although I see that the T&Cs on here say you only need to have a pet llama, not travel with it!

 

[RJ]

I'd pay for a national railcard and pay more than £26 or whatever a railcard costs these days. And I'd consider paying even more for a railcard that offered bigger discounts.

You might think twice if you knew how much a Priv costs for staff who pay the tax for it out of their own pocket

 

[island]

If you forget your BahnCard you get a penalty fare which I believe is €40.

 

[jon0844]

You might think twice if you knew how much a Priv costs for staff who pay the tax for it out of their own pocket

Possibly, but given some people will buy an IoW season to get a Gold Card, I am sure some people would pay a fairly high amount to secure discounts anywhere in the country. As in an amount in the hundreds (not thousands, unless we're going to be offering something approaching an ALR!).

The card would obviously need to allow others to travel with you for the same discounts, making it viable for families, groups of friends and - yes - office staff who might use it to travel by train to meetings, instead of using a car. That's probably where someone will suddenly moan that it will take money away from the railway as they'd pay anyway. Maybe they would, maybe they wouldn't - but big discounts are offered elsewhere so surely places like the Netherlands and Germany have done their maths?

Anyway, having now had a baby, I can now get a Friends & Family railcard. For a fair few years, as long as we bring our son with us, we'll be okay for a bit. I wonder if by the time he's too old/embarrassed to want to come out with us, we'll have a national railcard of some sort?!

 

[RJ]

Possibly, but given some people will buy an IoW season to get a Gold Card, I am sure some people would pay a fairly high amount to secure discounts anywhere in the country. As in an amount in the hundreds (not thousands, unless we're going to be offering something approaching an ALR!).

The card would obviously need to allow others to travel with you for the same discounts, making it viable for families, groups of friends and - yes - office staff who might use it to travel by train to meetings, instead of using a car. That's probably where someone will suddenly moan that it will take money away from the railway as they'd pay anyway. Maybe they would, maybe they wouldn't - but big discounts are offered elsewhere so surely places like the Netherlands and Germany have done their maths?

Anyway, having now had a baby, I can now get a Friends & Family railcard. For a fair few years, as long as we bring our son with us, we'll be okay for a bit. I wonder if by the time he's too old/embarrassed to want to come out with us, we'll have a national railcard of some sort?!

Well, a Priv sets certain railways employees back around £800 a year! Some will pay that as a Reduced Rate season ticket + the levy may well be quite a bit cheaper than the full fare season ticket.

 

[Lampshade]

I am still seeking a llama that likes train travel, although I see that the T&Cs on here say you only need to have a pet llama, not travel with it!

Correct, it's people who own a llama, though proof of ownership would be required (additional space on photocard)

Otherwise there'd be a nationwide llama rustling spree hock:

 

[snail]

Why would they need to increase? More journeys would be undertaken - not simply the same number but at lower fares. I'd use the train even more than I do now, whereas currently I'm as likely to take the car as I am to take the train due to some of the ticket pricing.

The more available reasonably priced offpeak travel is the less people will chose to use the car. This is additional revenue for TOC's.

I thought Advance tickets were designed to fill Off-Peak capacity?

 

[jon0844]

Correct, it's people who own a llama, though proof of ownership would be required (additional space on photocard)

Otherwise there'd be a nationwide llama rustling spree hock:

Fair enough - here's my photo...