Two Plus One Doors (Three doors per carriage)

[route:oxford]

Two car pacer units opererate with three doors per carriage. Two at each end, and one in the centre.

Has this layout been used succesfully on any other range of units?

 

[OMGitsDAVE]

It's not three doors per carriage.
It's one at each end of the train, and one centre door. The other area is used as a toilet.

3 doors per train/side.

 

[MCR247]

So three doors per carriage then?

 

[Kingfisher200262]

The problem with doors in the centre of the car is that when the station is on a curve, this is where the stepping distance is greatest. Generally, without using some kind of sliding or retractable step (like Pendolino), it's not possible to meet the standard for maximum stepping distance.

You get away with it with a Pacer because it's a very short body, but for a 20 metre or a 23 metre car, I doubt it's possible. I often wonder how it used to work with the old slam door suburban stock, where doors were distributed down the coach, or even with some Mk I coaches that had a centre door, but I guess the stepping distance requirement didn't exist then maybe?

 

[ainsworth74]

The 158s that were exported to Thailand only have two doors (one each side and one at each end) in the centre cars of those 3 car units.

 

[sprinterguy]

So three doors per carriage then?

Only if we're counting a complete two carriage Pacer as a single carriage now.

You get away with it with a Pacer because it's a very short body, but for a 20 metre or a 23 metre car, I doubt it's possible. I often wonder how it used to work with the old slam door suburban stock, where doors were distributed down the coach, or even with some Mk I coaches that had a centre door, but I guess the stepping distance requirement didn't exist then maybe

All the doors on a Pacer are at either the inner or outer ends of a carriage, so doors in the centre of the carriage aren't an issue. Only the 141s got close to having a door halfway down the carriage.

 

[MCR247]

Only if we're counting a complete two carriage Pacer as a single carriage now.

Pacers have 3 door per carriage. Two at the end and one in the middle?

 

[142094]

Pacers have 3 door per carriage. Two at the end and one in the middle?

Yes, but in one carriage of the Pacer you could only use a maximum of two to get on and off, which I where I think the confusion is coming from.

 

[tbtc]

Pacers have a "L" shaped doors system. Two doors at each cab end, but only one door (per carriage) at the other end of the coach (e.g. middle of the unit). So everyone seated in the middle of the train has to use the one door.

See this pic here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/thebustocrookes/5261594836/ - the front coach has a door at the "cab" end and a door at the "middle" end. The second coach has only a door at the cab. On the platform side, the "middle" door is on the second coach.

Or this pic: http://www.flickr.com/photos/thebustocrookes/4481961105/ -only the right hand coach has a "middle" door - on the other side of the train the "middle" door is on the left hand coach

[Door Door]
[...............]
[...............] << Front Coach
[...............]
[.........Door]
--------------
[Door....... ]
[...............]
[...............] << Rear Coach
[...............]
[Door Door]

(if that makes any sense)

 

[sprinterguy]

Pacers have a "L" shaped doors system. Two doors at each cab end, but only one door (per carriage) at the other end of the coach (e.g. middle of the unit). So everyone seated in the middle of the train has to use the one door.

See this pic here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/thebustocrookes/5261594836/ - the front coach has a door at the "cab" end and a door at the "middle" end. The second coach has only a door at the cab. On the platform side, the "middle" door is on the second coach.

Or this pic: http://www.flickr.com/photos/thebustocrookes/4481961105/ -only the right hand coach has a "middle" door - on the other side of the train the "middle" door is on the left hand coach

[Door Door]
[...............]
[...............] << Front Coach
[...............]
[.........Door]
--------------
[Door....... ]
[...............]
[...............] << Rear Coach
[...............]
[Door Door]

(if that makes any sense)

Ah yeah, got it now. Three doors per carriage counting both sides, just the title of the thread causing me confusion: Doors per each side of the train would be more relevant for boarding and alighting suppositions.

The arrangement hasn't been taken up on other UK heavy rail rolling stock as the usual 20m and 23m carriage lengths are long enough for such an arrangement to be restrictive on the rate of passengers boarding and alighting.

 

[tbtc]

Ah yeah, got it now. Three doors per carriage counting both sides, just the title of the thread causing me confusion: Doors per each side of the train would be more relevant for boarding and alighting suppositions.

The arrangement hasn't been taken up on other UK heavy rail rolling stock as the usual 20m and 23m carriage lengths are long enough for such an arrangement to be restrictive on the rate of passengers boarding and alighting.

I think the confusion has been seeing "Centre" door interpreted as "door in centre of carriage" *and* as "door in centre of train.

The 15 metre Pacer carriages probably suit this arrangement, but not on a longer unit

 

[Sapphire Blue]

The problem with doors in the centre of the car is that when the station is on a curve, this is where the stepping distance is greatest. Generally, without using some kind of sliding or retractable step (like Pendolino), it's not possible to meet the standard for maximum stepping distance.

You get away with it with a Pacer because it's a very short body, but for a 20 metre or a 23 metre car, I doubt it's possible. I often wonder how it used to work with the old slam door suburban stock, where doors were distributed down the coach, or even with some Mk I coaches that had a centre door, but I guess the stepping distance requirement didn't exist then maybe?

Doesn't that depends which way the platform curves.
If it is concave you are correct, but if the curve is convex then surely the stepping distance is greater from the ends of the car.

 

[Kingfisher200262]

Doesn't that depends which way the platform curves.
If it is concave you are correct, but if the curve is convex then surely the stepping distance is greater from the ends of the car.

Of course, but generally the centre of a 20 m or 23 m car is further from the pivot points on the bogies than the vehicle ends, so the problem is greater there.

Of course, you are right about the direction of curve, but we don't live our lives on an oval track, so there are examples of both and the designer must consider the worst case.

 

[northwichcat]

Has this layout been used succesfully on any other range of units?

In my opinion it hasn't successfully worked on any unit. The Pacers are terrible for loading/unloading with the double steps and the fold in doors. People constantly stand on the lower step and have to be told that the doors open inwards - that's not how people expect on a train.

The arrangement of three sets of doors per carriage also causes confusion when people don't know which platform the train is going to use and consequently which door the people near the middle head towards.

 

[pdq]

Am I right to think that on a three-car pacer the middle carriage does have a door in each corner?

 

[142094]

Am I right to think that on a three-car pacer the middle carriage does have a door in each corner?

Yes, that is right