Two Buses Hit Bridges this weekend.

[Neilandrewhall]

Two buses this weekend have hit bridges.

One on Rail Replacement between Hounslow and Windsor

https://twitter.com/callummaguire96/status/1644778993973878784?s=19

And one in Eccles Manchester, both the same company!

https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...news/breaking-double-decker-bus-roof-26669159

Dramatic pictures show the roof of a double-decker bus ripped off after hitting a bridge on Monday evening (April 10).

Police sealed off Barton Lane in Eccles after the major collision, that saw the bus smash into the bridge where the road runs beneath the Bridgewater Canal.


Pictures taken from the scene show the aftermath, with the entire roof completely ripped off and chairs on the upper floor left completely exposed. A number of police vehicles could also be seen in attendance.

What is going on?



Mod note: photo attachment removed as no source was provided

 

[Flange Squeal]

What is going on?

The first one at Staines was the low bridge on Laleham Road, and it's not an unknown one to be hit. An at the time brand-new Courtney Buses 18-plate Enviro 400MMC attempted to pass under it on rail replacement a few years back too. Buses should serve the 'Up' side of Staines railway station, which if heading from the Egham/Windsor direction should see them turn left immediately before this bridge. If you miss the turning, or have input the 'Down' side of Staines railway station into your Satnav and are blindly following it, then you are faced with this bridge. Diamond, the operator in question, do run the local (single deck!) 458 bus route under this bridge, so if it was a local driver then I guess there's a chance they may have drifted into autopilot momentarily?

A video showing the Staines incident can be found on the "UB1UB2 SOUTHALL" Twitter page can be found at:

https://twitter.com/UB1UB2/status/1644771125543731200?s=20

 

[Neilandrewhall]

The first one at Staines was the low bridge on Laleham Road, and it's not an unknown one to be hit. An at the time brand-new Courtney Buses 18-plate Enviro 400MMC attempted to pass under it on rail replacement a few years back too. Buses should serve the 'Up' side of Staines railway station, which if heading from the Egham/Windsor direction should see them turn left immediately before this bridge. If you miss the turning, or have input the 'Down' side of Staines railway station into your Satnav and are blindly following it, then you are faced with this bridge. Diamond, the operator in question, do run the local (single deck!) 458 bus route under this bridge, so if it was a local driver then I guess there's a chance they may have drifted into autopilot momentarily?

A video showing the Staines incident can be found on the "UB1UB2 SOUTHALL" Twitter page can be found at:

https://twitter.com/UB1UB2/status/1644771125543731200?s=20

I just feel sorry for the passengers involved who were potentially on the top deck.

 

[fgwrich]

There’s a photo with GMP Traffics post on twitter:

https://twitter.com/gmptraffic/status/1645528419751325696?s=46&t=Uj1PminkMk5uLaRpDQX48Q

The vehicle involved looks to be MX20KYU - the first fully open top street deck anyone?

 

[ANDREW_D_WEBB]

There’s a photo with GMP Traffics post on twitter:

https://twitter.com/gmptraffic/status/1645528419751325696?s=46&t=Uj1PminkMk5uLaRpDQX48Q

The vehicle involved looks to be MX20KYU - the first fully open top street deck anyone?

The first fully open Streetdeck was the Staines one

Thankfully both were empty at the time

 

[fgwrich]

The first one at Staines was the low bridge on Laleham Road, and it's not an unknown one to be hit. An at the time brand-new Courtney Buses 18-plate Enviro 400MMC attempted to pass under it on rail replacement a few years back too. Buses should serve the 'Up' side of Staines railway station, which if heading from the Egham/Windsor direction should see them turn left immediately before this bridge. If you miss the turning, or have input the 'Down' side of Staines railway station into your Satnav and are blindly following it, then you are faced with this bridge. Diamond, the operator in question, do run the local (single deck!) 458 bus route under this bridge, so if it was a local driver then I guess there's a chance they may have drifted into autopilot momentarily?

A video showing the Staines incident can be found on the "UB1UB2 SOUTHALL" Twitter page can be found at:

https://twitter.com/UB1UB2/status/1644771125543731200?s=20

I couldn’t work this one out at first, but it looks to be ex Arriva (given the roof) SL16YPH which somewhat ironically, looks to be a low height bodied street deck as well. As others have said, it’s thankful no passengers were on board either, but a bad weekend for Rotala Diamond!

 

[ANDREW_D_WEBB]

The Staines vehicle served as a demonstrator with Arriva before being sold to Diamond. I have a feeling it is the second time this bus has been deroofed. It is the only Streetdeck with Diamond in Surrey.

 

[DunsBus]

I'm minded of the accident in Glasgow some years back when a Clydeside Fleetline went under the West Street low bridge (sadly with fatalities). It was a different set of circumstances which resulted in that accident, but I've always been of the view ever since that if a driver doesn't know the height of his vehicle or understand the meaning of a low bridge warning sign then he shouldn't be driving a bus.

Indeed, I can remember when Eastern Scottish had its head office and Edinburgh depot in New Street, next to the low bridge carrying the ECML. Strike that bridge in a 'decker, and that was you out on your ear.

 

[yorksrob]

I suspect that sat-nav may be involved.

 

[philthetube]

I'm minded of the accident in Glasgow some years back when a Clydeside Fleetline went under the West Street low bridge (sadly with fatalities). It was a different set of circumstances which resulted in that accident, but I've always been of the view ever since that if a driver doesn't know the height of his vehicle or understand the meaning of a low bridge warning sign then he shouldn't be driving a bus.

Indeed, I can remember when Eastern Scottish had its head office and Edinburgh depot in New Street, next to the low bridge carrying the ECML. Strike that bridge in a 'decker, and that was you out on your ear.

They do and they do, and like all humans they make mistakes, what is needed is to find ways to avoid these mistakes being made.

 

[Flying Snail]

They do and they do, and like all humans they make mistakes, what is needed is to find ways to avoid these mistakes being made.

Were any of these vehicles fitted with low bridge warning systems? These have been available for near two decades now.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

That bridge on Barton Lane at Eccles where the Bridgewater Canal crosses above is particularly low. Only 11ft 6ins clearance. (= 3.5 metres). Single decker buses, maybe. Double decker, no chance!

There was almost identical incident at the exact same location in June 2020.

 

[LUYMun]

Thankfully both were empty at the time

I'm not sure about that, as seen in this Tiktok video emerging from a passenger on the (I believe?) Staines bridge strike. If I can get the format right...

https://www.tiktok.com/video/7220500887721037083

 

[RJ]

I suspect that sat-nav may be involved.

Extremely unlikely in this case. Laleham Road takes buses miles away from the line of route of the rail replacement routes in Staines so it can’t have been used as a shortcut.

There are four height signs immediately in front of that bridge - two on the bridge itself and one on each pavement either side of the road. And height warning signs on the one way system before you get to that road.

It should be compulsory to test for mental maths skills and attitude to observing road signs, things which should be implied by the possession of a licence but been proven thousands of times through bridge strikes that it’s not a failsafe. Some people see the warning sign but genuinely can’t calculate whether that number is higher or lower than the height of their vehicle. In their mind if the bridge is higher than their line of sight, that is sufficient to proceed. Other people feel they don’t have to observe road signs if given a route to follow. As said wrong turns happen often on these types of routes which is why it’s extra important to be observant of hazards.

Things like low bridge warnings alarms, specific training on local bridges and the like treat the symptoms rather that the root cause. Encountering low bridges is an occupational hazard of doing rail replacement, but the idea is to stop and call for help or turn around (if possible) if mistakenly on a road with a low bridge.

You see people working in the industry saying things on social media like the height warnings on triangular signs don’t have to be observed. But in my experience, these bridges are often more hazardous than those with a circular sign as they’re commonly placed on bridges with an arch or a high kerb so even a vehicle under the height shown can hit the bridge if not on the ball.

 

[yorksrob]

Extremely unlikely in this case. Laleham Road takes buses miles away from the line of route of the rail replacement routes in Staines so it can’t have been used as a shortcut.

There are four height signs immediately in front of that bridge - two on the bridge itself and one on each pavement either side of the road. And height warning signs on the one way system before you get to that road.

It should be compulsory to test for mental maths skills and attitude to observing road signs, things which should be implied by the possession of a licence but been proven thousands of times through bridge strikes that it’s not a failsafe. Some people see the warning sign but genuinely can’t calculate whether that number is higher or lower than the height of their vehicle. In their mind if the bridge is higher than their line of sight, that is sufficient to proceed. Other people feel they don’t have to observe road signs.

Things like low bridge warnings alarms, specific training on local bridges and the like treat the symptoms rather that the root cause. Encountering low bridges is an occupational hazard of doing rail replacement, but the idea is to stop and call for help or turn around (if possible) if mistakenly on a road with a low bridge.

You see people working in the industry saying things on social media like the height warnings on triangular signs don’t have to be observed. But in my experience, these bridges are often more hazardous than those with a circular sign as they’re commonly placed on bridges with an arch or a high kerb so even a vehicle under the height shown can hit the bridge if not on the ball.

I only say that because I've ended up having to direct bus drivers who've been sent off course due to sat nav.

 

[RJ]

I only say that because I've ended up having to direct bus drivers who've been sent off course due to sat nav.

That definitely happens a lot but in this specific case it’s unlikely to be a factor.

That turn is easily taken if trying to follow a map or pace notes. Normally from Staines, Windsor bound buses stay well away from that bridge and head for the A30 before joining the B376. Some local drivers will join the B376 from the town centre but that relies on knowing the roads well enough not to take that road in the wrong direction.

 

[wiltshirebloke]

The laughable thing is that assuming the bus did approach from the Bus Station direction, the low bridge warning system hasn't worked for years. The sign just randomally flashes with the top & bottom yellow warning lights and the actual message itself doesnt light up. Even the Google car managed to capture this !

[Photo shows warning sign. Low bridge is located after the left turn at the traffic lights]

 

[RJ]

The laughable thing is that assuming the bus did approach from the Bus Station direction, the low bridge warning system hasn't worked for years. The sign just randomally flashes with the top & bottom yellow warning lights and the actual message itself doesnt light up. Even the Google car managed to capture this !

[Photo shows warning sign. Low bridge is located after the left turn at the traffic lights]
View attachment 132806

I’ve been driving those routes since 2012 and I can’t say I’ve ever even noticed that board. If it does illuminate it’s probably dim bulbs and not the super bright LEDs you see on other signs. Where you’ve screenshotted is the correct line of route from Staines towards Egham, or towards Windsor for drivers who want to avoid the A30, but all buses have to turn right. The mistake risk comes with anyone who is on that road looking for the B376.

 

[L401CJF]

Were any of these vehicles fitted with low bridge warning systems? These have been available for near two decades now.

These can however not be effective - a friend of mine works for Arriva Bolton. They have just had the "low bridge" alert system enabled on their Ticketer machine which beeps at a high volume constantly and requires the driver to acknowledge each alert.

He says its nothing but a distraction and goes off so much on the normal routes nowhere near bridges all the time - drivers just acknowledge it out of habit. As it happens Arriva Bolton only run single deckers, but with a system like that if a driver is used to constantly acknowledging the warning out of habit, it'll happen off route when there IS a low bridge and the driver won't think twice.

Personally I've never understood it. I was a bus driver for 7 years and always been stressing whenever I'm off route and see low bridge signs, I don't understand how you can just switch off and miss all the warnings!

 

[M803UYA]

Things like low bridge warnings alarms, specific training on local bridges and the like treat the symptoms rather that the root cause. Encountering low bridges is an occupational hazard of doing rail replacement, but the idea is to stop and call for help or turn around (if possible) if mistakenly on a road with a low bridge.

The operator will find themselves before the traffic commissioner along with the driver. Gone are the days where an operator can just point at the driver and say 'shouldn't be driving if they don't know how high their vehicle is' - The traffic commissioner will want to know what is in place to mitigate bridge strikes. If the answer is 'nothing' the operator is looking at a licence reduction.

This recent case in the North West Traffic Area shows how strongly this issue is being dealt with now. A quote from the decision can be found below.

"The operator and its Transport Managers were called to public inquiry after it notified my office that one of its vehicles had collided with a railway bridge on 27 May 2022.

The information that the operator provided raised concerns about the adequacy of the measures that the operator and its Transport Managers had taken to reduce the risk of such a collision with infrastructure hence the call to public inquiry."

 

[Titfield]

The operator will find themselves before the traffic commissioner along with the driver. Gone are the days where an operator can just point at the driver and say 'shouldn't be driving if they don't know how high their vehicle is' - The traffic commissioner will want to know what is in place to mitigate bridge strikes. If the answer is 'nothing' the operator is looking at a licence reduction.

This recent case in the North West Traffic Area shows how strongly this issue is being dealt with now. A quote from the decision can be found below.

I rather think though that the action against the two TMs illustrates the lack of options open to the Traffic Commissioner to take regulatory action. He can not fine them, he can either decide they have lost their repute or they have kept their repute. A warning in practical terms means nothing unless of course they further blot their copy books at some time in the future when the question of retention or loss of repute will be considered again and arguably there would be no benefit of the doubt.

Personally I would like to see a map on the drivers noticeboard showing all low bridges within a 50 mile radius* of the depot clearly marked. Or perhaps a sign at the depot exit reading "going off route - beware low bridges".

*I say 50 mile radius as few "deckers" ever go more than 50 miles from the depot.

 

[philthetube]

Part of the issue is that bus drivers, as opposed to coach drivers, are used to their vehicles fitting everywhere they are sent, bus drivers do not have much experience of being off familiar routes.

 

[M60lad]

I know at some bigger Bus Depots there is a map on driver's notice boards in the relevant traffic offices and some even have photographs of the offending bridges to remind drivers not to use them.

Even Diversion notices had notes on them to let drivers know if there were any low-bridges on any diversion routes that they were supposedly taking.

 

[DunsBus]

Part of the issue is that bus drivers, as opposed to coach drivers, are used to their vehicles fitting everywhere they are sent, bus drivers do not have much experience of being off familiar routes.

Indeed and this was how the West Street accident happened in 1994.

The driver, who had taken a group of Girl Guides and their leaders from Drumchapel to Ayrshire for the day but was unsure of the route back to Drumchapel on returning to Glasgow. One of the leaders decided to lead the way in her car and took a short cut via West Street.
Those familiar with that area will know that outside the West Street Subway station there is a pair of bridges, one lower than the other, and the bus got under the first bridge before hitting the second.

As I recall, its driver was subsequently convicted but escaped a ban.

Partly because of this accident, as the West Street bridges were notorious for being struck, the road under them was closed off a few years later.

 

[LiviCrazy]

Something I’ve often wondered is why road authorities don’t add a height barrier at the same height slightly before the bridge (like you get on entry to car parks). Particularly for railway bridges where if they are struck it can affect the railway too.

It would mean if a bus or truck was too tall it would hit the barrier before getting to the bridge.

 

[Leyland Bus]

Something I’ve often wondered is why road authorities don’t add a height barrier at the same height slightly before the bridge (like you get on entry to car parks). Particularly for railway bridges where if they are struck it can affect the railway too.

It would mean if a bus or truck was too tall it would hit the barrier before getting to the bridge.

I remember the Eccles bridge had all that, a massive yellow and black metal barrier with dangling pieces to warn drivers (of deckers and large lorries) as that bridge has been hit a fair few times. It's been a few years since I was under it in a car but I can't see why it wouldn't still be there...

 

[LiviCrazy]

I remember the Eccles bridge had all that, a massive yellow and black metal barrier with dangling pieces to warn drivers (of deckers and large lorries) as that bridge has been hit a fair few times. It's been a few years since I was under it in a car but I can't see why it wouldn't still be there...

Looking at Streetview that one still seems to be there, how the driver missed that I don’t know, though looking at the historic pictures it seems to be in worse and worse state on one side.

 

[RJ]

The operator will find themselves before the traffic commissioner along with the driver. Gone are the days where an operator can just point at the driver and say 'shouldn't be driving if they don't know how high their vehicle is' - The traffic commissioner will want to know what is in place to mitigate bridge strikes. If the answer is 'nothing' the operator is looking at a licence reduction.

This recent case in the North West Traffic Area shows how strongly this issue is being dealt with now. A quote from the decision can be found below.

I hear that, but sometimes how far these things go depends on who the operator is and what their history is with the TC. Quite a few bridge strikes have happened without the operator or TM being called to a PI. If they can demonstrate that mitigating measures were in place then the blame falls with whoever was at the wheel.

Something I’ve often wondered is why road authorities don’t add a height barrier at the same height slightly before the bridge (like you get on entry to car parks). Particularly for railway bridges where if they are struck it can affect the railway too.

It would mean if a bus or truck was too tall it would hit the barrier before getting to the bridge.

That doesn’t stop everyone. I know of a bus that drove straight into one of those gantries with suspended poles, shattering the upper windscreen with four clear points of impact then continued and drove into the bridge. The bus passed underneath without getting wedged as it was an aqueduct rather than a railway bridge.

 

[Haywain]

Something I’ve often wondered is why road authorities don’t add a height barrier at the same height slightly before the bridge (like you get on entry to car parks). Particularly for railway bridges where if they are struck it can affect the railway too.

The road authorities don't see a problem and the railway generally can't get planning permission, access, land and finance to do this.

 

[Deerfold]

Something I’ve often wondered is why road authorities don’t add a height barrier at the same height slightly before the bridge (like you get on entry to car parks). Particularly for railway bridges where if they are struck it can affect the railway too.

It would mean if a bus or truck was too tall it would hit the barrier before getting to the bridge.

To be useful it'd have to be some way before the bridge so the driver has time to react at (say) 30mph.