Correct, or at least one of my former employers used this to get rid of 3 people.
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Correct, or at least one of my former employers used this to get rid of 3 people.
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RailUK Forums
I have also heard of that scenario happening on the railway industry too for dismissals in the past
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Sounds very harsh
I totally agree ,I could and I'm sure many other posters could quote several different situations on the railway where people have lost their job under very very dubious circumstances but there is no point or value in doing so right now
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Amberley54
Member
Guilt by association has NEVER been an acceptable ground for dismissal, and in over 20 years as a trade union steward in the local government sector
I never saw it put forward as a ground for disciplinary action by an employer.
Would be interested in reading details of where it was successfully used by an employer to dismiss a group of employees without direct evidence against each individual.
I never saw it put forward as a ground for disciplinary action by an employer.
Would be interested in reading details of where it was successfully used by an employer to dismiss a group of employees without direct evidence against each individual.
ralphchadkirk
Established Member
Whitbread & Co. plc v. Thomas
Monie v Coral Racing
Parr v Whitbread
All were blanket dismissal cases. In Whitbread & Co plc v Thomas, the management of an Off Licence were unable to identify, after detailed investigation, which of three employees had been guilty of stock losses. All three were dismissed, and this was held to be fair.
As long as an employer can demonstrate:
(a) that the act, if committed, would justify the dismissal of the employee
(b) that the act was committed by one or more members of a group and any member of that group could have been responsible
(c) that after a proper investigation, the employer is unable to identify who is responsible
Then they are entitled to dismiss the entire group.
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TOCDriver
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Absolutely disgusting state of affairs. Whatever happened to being innocent until proven guilty?
I agree but the level of proof and probability is significantly less in employment law than in law courts ,one random non railway example I can think of is the way ex England footballer John Terry was cleared of racism in court but subseququently found guilty by the FA
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While the train sits there for a week waiting for them to turn up!
Brilliant idea!:roll:
Did you not know 455 that BTP are at every station waiting to deal with non ticket holders and other not nice people that sometimes get on our trains.
If you end up holding trains while waiting for the BTP you end up with a 'please explain'. too many times, and its into the office for a chat. I've seen it happen.
Had a quick scan and couldn't see this but apologies if repeating a previous post.
People seem able to use the technology to Tweet about lack of information but not use it to see if there is anything listed on websites etc. What are they expecting? Someone to come up to them and tell them personally?
Several hours after the first notification of a line closure on Journeycheck, supplemented by a banner on the company website home page, regular notifications on the company Twitter feed, amended CIS messages, an entry on the National Rail Service alterations you get the "Stuck at xxxx station. No f******* information. Give me lots of compensation you useless c****"
People seem able to use the technology to Tweet about lack of information but not use it to see if there is anything listed on websites etc. What are they expecting? Someone to come up to them and tell them personally?
Several hours after the first notification of a line closure on Journeycheck, supplemented by a banner on the company website home page, regular notifications on the company Twitter feed, amended CIS messages, an entry on the National Rail Service alterations you get the "Stuck at xxxx station. No f******* information. Give me lots of compensation you useless c****"
Not far off, yes! If I'm stood on an isolated station with no-one else around and no sign of the last train when it's due...I would want a departure screen on the platform, or announcements even if it's done from miles away. I don't want to have to go searching out the information online, even though in many other cases I would, not on the railways.
All the stations around here that don't have any screens announcements etc, have info points which you press a button to hear about it.
Not always very good though. Last two times I used them (some time ago) I appeared to be put through to National Rail Enquiries, at a foreign call centre and they had less information than me. There's not even any 'caller ID' so they know where you are - so that takes a while to explain!
I hope if you press emergency then they get to know and can immediately watch you on CCTV and act even before you speak if required.
I have had better success on the Underground though, but now there's Wi-Fi I just use the Internet most of the time. It's great to be connected underground, albeit only at the stations.
The ones I've used had 2 buttons, one button for automated live running statuses, and the other to call national rail enquiries.
The last time I called NRE the operator couldn't find any station called Redruth despite me spelling it to him, so I don't hold much faith for their service
Peter Mugridge
Veteran Member
Accessibilty Act? Cloth eared people like me...??
Hmm. They have information (which makes a phone call so often takes a while to answer) and emergency. Indoor/underground stations might also have a traditional looking fire alarm button too.
No recorded info on any I've used. That sounds like a better idea if updated. But what about a visual display for the deaf? There's probably enough room for a screen that could show / scroll reasonable size text for viewing close up.
I saw the emergency button being tested by staff at St Pancras low level once and was surprised how long it takes for those to be answered - and I'd have expected that they knew there was a test. Okay, so perhaps that's why they didn't rush - but it didn't inspire me with confidence.
tsr
Established Member
Some will also have small black "Assistance" buttons, which seem to be mainly intended for those requiring ramps, etc. The various button options lead to a few different configurations.
Information buttons may lead to a user being put on hold, which can lead to a recorded message, but I too haven't actually ever used one where train information is recorded and played back, IIRC.
Some newer ones do - they have a small screen with ATOC-branded departure boards (and extremely small print for the calling patterns!). To give two diverse locations, I have found help points with screens at Starcross and Winchelsea recently.
I'm pretty sure that the text size could be modified if there was enough feedback. The screens do fit in the standard round white shells, though they don't look terribly elegant.
I can't say what happened in individual circumstances, but I'd expect staff would usually know about any tests, and that any calls from other locations or perhaps any other immediate local problems would be dealt with first, as required.
The normal (blue?) info button at those help points goes through to India, not sure if it's NRE or the TOCs customer service line. The emergency button goes through to the TOCs control. It isn't exactly an 'emergency' button in the '999' sense but control staff are alerted to it but when you only have 2 staff in control it can take time to answer depending on what they are doing at the time.
There are few actual emergency situations which would warrant the button really so it dosnt need dedicated people on the end of the line.
I was at St Paul's LU once and encountered someone slumped over unconscious under the help point which was sounding an alarm tone (I suppose she or someone pressed the green button), yet the platform attendant 10 meters away was completely unaware of it even though he had a radio on him. I had to tell him what was going on, which he then radioed to the control room.
And this was in a crowded station during the evening peak.
That didn't inspire me with confidence in the system.
CC 72100
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'Totnes' took a little while to explain the one and only time I used it. In the end, we received exactly the same info as the garbage on the board!
Thankfully the 57 could then be heard in the distance, and I realised that it wasn't a night on Totnes station!
There was once a line side fire south of Godalming and it was late. People pressed the info button and nothing so they pressed the emergency button and still nothing. I had another experience late at night where there was no response.
During the day, using just the info button, it's been fine. This was some years ago now so perhaps they have improved the service. If not perhaps they need a note explaining what they mean by emergency and perhaps even the times they will respond to an emergency call, if as I experienced, there are times when they don't.
Alternatively they could put a note stating that in very busy periods or emergencies late at night, they may not respond to the pressing of the emergency button.
Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
During the day, using just the info button, it's been fine. This was some years ago now so perhaps they have improved the service. If not perhaps they need a note explaining what they mean by emergency and perhaps even the times they will respond to an emergency call, if as I experienced, there are times when they don't.
Alternatively they could put a note stating that in very busy periods or emergencies late at night, they may not respond to the pressing of the emergency button.
Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
I think Arriva has live departure screens at all of their stations now, and they have some 'rural shacks'!
On the FGW network, a lot of stations have departure screens, some have smaller departure screens on a help point (e.g. Freshford, Lawrence Hill and Melksham) and the 'halts' have help points (i.e. Avoncliff).
I do think that some form of departure screen is an absolute must at stations, even at places that are not so cost effective.
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As long as the information is up to date, and while the TOC gets the blame and is sometimes at fault it is dependent on information provided by Network Rail either through automated or manual feeds.
WelshBluebird
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Not hugely useful though when:
1 - The station is in a small area of stations where there are no public timing points. As such it doesn't actually know if a train is late, it is just guessing (unless a delay has been manually entered).
2- The live info is turned off and the screen just shows a message saying for information call NRE.
Why are there still stations that can't show real time information? It's a pretty important part of a railway service!
There's still no information available at some tube stations (White City, H&C/Circle line for example), which seems bizarre. Perhaps for a different reason, but same end result for the passenger.
There's still no information available at some tube stations (White City, H&C/Circle line for example), which seems bizarre. Perhaps for a different reason, but same end result for the passenger.
Quite common in absolute block areas, as train running information usually relies upon manual reporting (which doesn't always get done if something's kicking off or the computer's broken etc.). There are some quite long AB sections with a few stations but no intermediate means of train detection too.
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