[Twickenham 18th sep]Emergency services dealing with incident.

[GingerRH]

So, as title suggests, severe disruption at Twickenham this evening after the rugby due to the emergency services dealing with an incident, can't find much info on it but I'm imagining it was someone hit by a train as power had to be switched off.

This leaves me with a question - should there be more measures in place to protect passengers from the platform edge on busy periods?

BBC report below
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-34298951

 

[button_boxer]

BBC says person hit by train.

A person was struck by a train at Twickenham railway station following the opening game of the Rugby World Cup at Twickenham Stadium nearby.

The station in south-west London was evacuated following the incident.

South West Trains said a "customer has had an accident" and services in both directions were delayed as emergency crews attended the scene.

It happened as thousands of fans left the ground after England's victory over Fiji in the first World Cup game.

 

[theironroad]

BBC reporting a person having a accident and struck by train. Crowd control is usually In place at twickenham after rugby, so wonder how full platform was and whether alcohol was involved.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-34298951

 

[GingerRH]

Saw a tweet saying a staff member said a drunk male had been pushed onto the tracks, unsure on how reliable that is though..

At least the guy is alive! Only head and leg injuries.

 

[theironroad]

Bbc have updated with a btp statement saying man fell into pathing of slowing train and has head and leg injuries, but not sure how he ended up falling.

*MAYBE*.he was one of the clowns who do pretend jumps in front of the train when they are ****ed and the platforms are wet at places like Clapham junction thinking its really funny......but maybe not... Hope he recovers ok.

 

[RichmondCommu]

Living just the road in Richmond I have to say that SWT are normally very good at dealing with large crowds when there are games on at Twickenham and are very careful to ensure that the platforms don't become too crowded.

 

[theironroad]

Saw a tweet saying a staff member said a drunk male had been pushed onto the tracks, unsure on how reliable that is though..

At least the guy is alive! Only head and leg injuries.

If that's true, I hope btp can identify whoever pushed the guy. Not sure if attempted murder would stick as a charge, but this mans life cold be devastated depending on the extent of his injuries.

 

[GingerRH]

Could have been a lot worse - would be interesting to see how quick the reaction was for emergency staff to get to the person due to crowding Etc.

Hope the driver andd family are okay after all of this

 

[RichmondCommu]

At least the guy is alive! Only head and leg injuries.

He's lucky that he wasn't electrocuted!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

If that's true, I hope btp can identify whoever pushed the guy. Not sure if attempted murder would stick as a charge, but this mans life cold be devastated depending on the extent of his injuries.

I wonder whether it was perhaps simply a case of drunken stupidity from his friends rather than anything more sinister.

 

[theironroad]

He's lucky that he wasn't electrocuted!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


I wonder whether it was perhaps simply a case of drunken stupidity from his friends rather than anything more sinister.

That wouldn't surprise me either, I've seen plenty of fri/sat night p****d passengers thinking the platform is a playground.

 

[RichmondCommu]

That wouldn't surprise me either, I've seen plenty of fri/sat night p****d passengers thinking the platform is a playground.

Hard drinking before the game, beers during the game and larking around after the game. Oh and bad mouthing stewards , The Met and SWT staff afterwards because they are simply doing their job and making sure that everyone gets home safely.

 

[StateOfPlay]

This leaves me with a question - should there be more measures in place to protect passengers from the platform edge on busy periods?[/url]

It would be a good health and safety move if they were to do this. If it reduces the number of deaths and accidents, it will be better for everybody. Drivers, passengers and victims. People that want to do harm to themselves will find another way to do it, but maybe some will be put off.

I do love the glass screens on the new section of the jubilee line. Not sure if anyone here has statistics on accidents/deaths at tube stations, and how this compares to the stations with glass screens?

 

[455driver]

How many deaths and injuries are you talking about saving here?
Lets have some perspective please! :roll:

 

[najaB]

I do love the glass screens on the new section of the jubilee line. Not sure if anyone here has statistics on accidents/deaths at tube stations, and how this compares to the stations with glass screens?

Platform Edge Doors are, as you say, effective at reducing the risk of people falling from the platform, but they have several drawbacks. They only work when all stock calling at the station have the same door layout, and they require the driver to hit very accurate stopping points - on the Jubilee line, if the driver is ±50cm from the stopping point then they have to skip the stop.

 

[StateOfPlay]

How many deaths and injuries are you talking about saving here?
Lets have some perspective please! :roll:

I think there are about 25-30 deaths per year.

 

[theironroad]

I think there are about 25-30 deaths per year.

From people accidentally falling or being pushed off platforms??

Seems high to me.

 

[Hadders]

I wasn't at Twickenham last night but I've been to lots of big matches there. The queueing system is pretty well controlled post match. London bound passengers are directed to a queue in the car park, passengers are then let onto the platform a few minutes before each train arrives. In my experience the trains (and by definition the platforms) are never wedged on leaving Twickenham (busy, yes but not tube like conditions) becUse the trains call at Richmond where more passengers board.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I've just passed through Richmond station and noticed the car park's closed with barriers in place for a queueing system later on after today's match at Twickenham.

(I'm at the Richmond Athletic Ground for a more authentic rugby experience - London Scottish playing Bedford in the Greene King IPA Championship)

 

[SPADTrap]

Platform Edge Doors are, as you say, effective at reducing the risk of people falling from the platform, but they have several drawbacks. They only work when all stock calling at the station have the same door layout, and they require the driver to hit very accurate stopping points - on the Jubilee line, if the driver is ±50cm from the stopping point then they have to skip the stop.

Would that not be the ATO system rather than the driver?

 

[HarleyDavidson]

Would that not be the ATO system rather than the driver?

Nope, you only have to look at the Jubilee line to see what happens when the driver accidentally gets it slightly out & whilst it's rare to see happen it does once every so often, much to the drivers embarrassment.

They're not going to the extortionate cost of door on platforms anyway, you only need to see what the local kids (Troglodytes) do around a so called desirable area to trains & stations with windows being smashed or etched and graffiti all over the place, so are you going to install them only to have them vandalised all of the time? I think not.

Unless they started dishing out severe jail terms to the local scumbags to deter them (which the magistrates won't do, as they have no backbone or gonads to do it), then you'll just have to put up with the risk of being pushed onto the track.

 

[SPADTrap]

Nope, you only have to look at the Jubilee line to see what happens when the driver accidentally gets it slightly out & whilst it's rare to see happen it does once every so often, much to the drivers embarrassment.

They're not going to the extortionate cost of door on platforms anyway, you only need to see what the local kids (Troglodytes) do around a so called desirable area to trains & stations with windows being smashed or etched and graffiti all over the place, so are you going to install them only to have them vandalised all of the time? I think not.

Unless they started dishing out severe jail terms to the local scumbags to deter them (which the magistrates won't do, as they have no backbone or gonads to do it), then you'll just have to put up with the risk of being pushed onto the track.

I thought it was operated under ATO? Have I missed something? Usually have! I was under the understanding that occasionally the ATO system can get it wrong thus needing driver intervention?

 

[najaB]

I thought it was operated under ATO? Have I missed something? Usually have! I was under the understanding that occasionally the ATO system can get it wrong thus needing driver intervention?

I have no doubt that you're correct that it is normally ATO, but on one of the 'inside the tube' type programs a couple years back they definitely showed a driver missing a stop point by a little under a foot and he had to skip the stop because they aren't allowed to set back.

 

[Magicake]

I was at the game and got caught up in all the disruption yesterday. Thoughts with all those who were affected, the emergency services and station staff at Twickenham appeared to deal with the situation extremely professionally.

Everyone queueing at Twickenham was turned back and advised to travel from Richmond, I believe to allow ambulance access through the car park. I decided to take my chances waiting at Twickenham and actually caught the first train to resume to Waterloo about an hour later. Huge numbers still attempting to board at Richmond when we passed through.

Was supposed to be travelling on to Sevenoaks but by then had missed the last connection. Spoke to the station supervisor at Waterloo East who advised that he was having nothing to do with ordering any replacement transport and that it was SWT's responsibility.

At Waterloo the station manager stated he had no obligation to provide any transport as the disruption had been caused by an incident outside the railway control. Does anyone know if this is correct? I was always under the impression that taxis were meant to be provided to get stranded passengers to their final destination regardless of fault?

With packed trains continuing to arrive a large number of people had now gathered and begin arguing with the station manager who appeared quite out of his depth. Eventually he changed his mind and agreed to order everyone taxis. I waited for half an hour while he tried to book them but he claimed he was only allowed to use one company and they weren't answering the phone.
Gave up and went tried to find a taxi at the taxi rank but the queue stretched right the way round the station and must have been several thousand people long. Waited another half hour but progress was minimal so eventually decided just to get the N199 from Trafalgar Square to Orpington and stay at a friend's house there. As I left Waterloo trains still appeared to be bringing more fans from Richmond. Finally got back to orpington about 3.30am

All in all a hugely unfortunate incident to happen on the first day of the tournament. Fantastic response from staff at Twickenham although staff at London terminals seemed unhelpful, overwhelmed and totally out of their depth. Having said that even if they had took charge of the situation I don't know what they could have done as there were simply more people than transport could cope with at that time of night.

Any thoughts on how arriving passengers in Waterloo could have been managed better?

 

[455driver]

I think there are about 25-30 deaths per year.

At rail stations after major sporting events?
That is the issue being discussed!

 

[hassaanhc]

I was at the game and got caught up in all the disruption yesterday. Thoughts with all those who were affected, the emergency services and station staff at Twickenham appeared to deal with the situation extremely professionally.

Everyone queueing at Twickenham was turned back and advised to travel from Richmond, I believe to allow ambulance access through the car park. I decided to take my chances waiting at Twickenham and actually caught the first train to resume to Waterloo about an hour later. Huge numbers still attempting to board at Richmond when we passed through.

Was supposed to be travelling on to Sevenoaks but by then had missed the last connection. Spoke to the station supervisor at Waterloo East who advised that he was having nothing to do with ordering any replacement transport and that it was SWT's responsibility.

At Waterloo the station manager stated he had no obligation to provide any transport as the disruption had been caused by an incident outside the railway control. Does anyone know if this is correct? I was always under the impression that taxis were meant to be provided to get stranded passengers to their final destination regardless of fault?

With packed trains continuing to arrive a large number of people had now gathered and begin arguing with the station manager who appeared quite out of his depth. Eventually he changed his mind and agreed to order everyone taxis. I waited for half an hour while he tried to book them but he claimed he was only allowed to use one company and they weren't answering the phone.
Gave up and went tried to find a taxi at the taxi rank but the queue stretched right the way round the station and must have been several thousand people long. Waited another half hour but progress was minimal so eventually decided just to get the N199 from Trafalgar Square to Orpington and stay at a friend's house there. As I left Waterloo trains still appeared to be bringing more fans from Richmond. Finally got back to orpington about 3.30am

All in all a hugely unfortunate incident to happen on the first day of the tournament. Fantastic response from staff at Twickenham although staff at London terminals seemed unhelpful, overwhelmed and totally out of their depth. Having said that even if they had took charge of the situation I don't know what they could have done as there were simply more people than transport could cope with at that time of night.

Any thoughts on how arriving passengers in Waterloo could have been managed better?

Trains were diverted via and calling additionally at Hounslow, continuing more than an hour after the usual last train at 2316. Richmond would have been for TfL services. Or was it just those at Whitton that mainly used Hounslow instead?

Earlier in the day there were two 458/5 diagrams short formed, but at some point they got those units attached together to go on one diagram, and a 455 (possibly with 456) consist on the other. Excellent planning!

 

[jopsuk]

Platform Edge Doors are, as you say, effective at reducing the risk of people falling from the platform, but they have several drawbacks. They only work when all stock calling at the station have the same door layout, and they require the driver to hit very accurate stopping points - on the Jubilee line, if the driver is ±50cm from the stopping point then they have to skip the stop.

There's alternative technology. More than one type

 

[Dieseldriver]

Would that not be the ATO system rather than the driver?

ATO was introduced on the Jubilee line together with Transmission Based Train Control a few years ago, before that the trains were all driven manually under conventional signalling.

 

[Antman]

I was at the game and got caught up in all the disruption yesterday. Thoughts with all those who were affected, the emergency services and station staff at Twickenham appeared to deal with the situation extremely professionally.

Everyone queueing at Twickenham was turned back and advised to travel from Richmond, I believe to allow ambulance access through the car park. I decided to take my chances waiting at Twickenham and actually caught the first train to resume to Waterloo about an hour later. Huge numbers still attempting to board at Richmond when we passed through.

Was supposed to be travelling on to Sevenoaks but by then had missed the last connection. Spoke to the station supervisor at Waterloo East who advised that he was having nothing to do with ordering any replacement transport and that it was SWT's responsibility.


At Waterloo the station manager stated he had no obligation to provide any transport as the disruption had been caused by an incident outside the railway control. Does anyone know if this is correct? I was always under the impression that taxis were meant to be provided to get stranded passengers to their final destination regardless of fault?

With packed trains continuing to arrive a large number of people had now gathered and begin arguing with the station manager who appeared quite out of his depth. Eventually he changed his mind and agreed to order everyone taxis. I waited for half an hour while he tried to book them but he claimed he was only allowed to use one company and they weren't answering the phone.
Gave up and went tried to find a taxi at the taxi rank but the queue stretched right the way round the station and must have been several thousand people long. Waited another half hour but progress was minimal so eventually decided just to get the N199 from Trafalgar Square to Orpington and stay at a friend's house there. As I left Waterloo trains still appeared to be bringing more fans from Richmond. Finally got back to orpington about 3.30am

All in all a hugely unfortunate incident to happen on the first day of the tournament. Fantastic response from staff at Twickenham although staff at London terminals seemed unhelpful, overwhelmed and totally out of their depth. Having said that even if they had took charge of the situation I don't know what they could have done as there were simply more people than transport could cope with at that time of night.

Any thoughts on how arriving passengers in Waterloo could have been managed better?

Couldn't all 'one under' type incidents be described as beyond the control of the railway industry?

I would imagine quite a few people must have missed their last train home as a result of this incident although I appreciate that taxis can't be plucked out of thin air on a Friday night but I'd have been pretty miffed if I'd been left stranded especially if I had kids with me.

 

[Tomnick]

The last EMT service out of London (0015 Leicester) was held for thirty minutes, with the delay attributed directly to the incident at Twickenham. Good to see some cooperation between TOCs, at least!

 

[gimmea50anyday]

There has been another fatality incident this evening between berwick and Reston which is having an effect on EC and XC services. No doubt people will have missed the last perth/aberdeen/inverness services as a result but EC XC and Scotrail wont see people stranded. It is a condition of the ticket sale that the TOCs are obliged to complete the journey. If that means accomodation for the following days services or a taxi etc then thats what will be done.

Suggest for being stranded and only getting as far as Orpington you put in a claim to SWT, use the bus ticket as part of your evidence and state there was no service provision from Waterloo East despite the large number of people arriving off delayed services

 

[TEW]

No idea why the manager at Waterloo was refusing to order taxis. The message from control was clear; taxis were to be ordered for stranded passengers. I can imagine there would have been a fair wait for sufficient numbers of taxis to turn up mind. SWT did run extra services, the last one being a 0200 Waterloo-Woking.