TVMs won't accept cash

[nanstallon]

If you are in a hurry and don't have time to get your ticket from the TVM, you can presumably without penalty or risk of prosecution buy your ticket in cash from the conductor?

 

[signed]

You would usually need a Promise To Pay ticket from the TVM

 

[Hadders]

You are required to be in a possession of a valid ticket before you board the train, so long as facilities exist to purchase the ticket you require, using your chosen payment method at the station where you start your journey. Facilities are an open ticket office or a ticket vending machine.

So, if you arrive at the station intending to pay with cash and the ticket office is closed (or there is no ticket office) and the TVM doesn't accept cash, then you may board the train and pay at the earliest opportunity. If there's a Permit to Travel machine then you should use this to obtain a permit before boarding the train. In certain areas (mainly stations served by Northern) you must obtain a Promise to Pay voucher from the ticket vending machine to show that you intended to pay with cash.

 

[Haywain]

You would usually need a Promise To Pay ticket from the TVM

Most TVMs do not issue these.

 

[island]

If you are in a hurry and don't have time to get your ticket from the TVM, you can presumably without penalty or risk of prosecution buy your ticket in cash from the conductor?

No.

Being in a hurry does not excuse you from buying your ticket before boarding, and you may commit a criminal offence if you don't. Others have already covered the exceptions so I won't repeat them.

 

[Towers]

No.

Being in a hurry does not excuse you from buying your ticket before boarding, and you may commit a criminal offence if you don't. Others have already covered the exceptions so I won't repeat them.

Surely very much “Yes”, given that the OP is referring specifically to paying with cash and TVMs not accepting it!

I appreciate they’ve presented it as a way of excusing boarding without a ticket, but it is very much a valid reason for doing so in this instance.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Presume the station that the OP is starting from doesn't also have an open ticket office?

 

[John R]

No.

Being in a hurry does not excuse you from buying your ticket before boarding, and you may commit a criminal offence if you don't. Others have already covered the exceptions so I won't repeat them.

If the TVM is the only available method of purchase at the station, and does not accept cash, then you can buy on board without penalty if you pay using cash, regardless of whether you have other means of payment on you.

 

[pitdiver]

With regard to Northern and Promise to Pay. Does this apply to Priv Facility holders as well?

 

[WAB]

With regard to Northern and Promise to Pay. Does this apply to Priv Facility holders as well?

Yes - it’s in the staff guide.

 

[pitdiver]

Yes - it’s in the staff guide.

Is that the one issued by RST. if so I don't get one as I am ex LUL.

 

[Bletchleyite]

You would usually need a Promise To Pay ticket from the TVM

For Northern yes. A few South East stations may still have Permit to Travel machines which are similar but require insertion of a coin. For elsewhere, just board but make sure you do have the cash or rail travel vouchers for the fare else you'll likely end up fending off a prosecution.

 

[WesternLancer]

For Northern yes. A few South East stations may still have Permit to Travel machines which are similar but require insertion of a coin. For elsewhere, just board but make sure you do have the cash or rail travel vouchers for the fare else you'll likely end up fending off a prosecution.

Sounds like a good reason to keep a few Rail Travel Vouchers on you for ‘insurance purposes’. Lol.

 

[Haywain]

Sounds like a good reason to keep a few Rail Travel Vouchers on you for ‘insurance purposes’. Lol.

A cynic (and I'm not a cynic) might say that that sounds like using a means of avoiding, if not evading, buying a ticket.

 

[island]

Surely very much “Yes”, given that the OP is referring specifically to paying with cash and TVMs not accepting it!

I appreciate they’ve presented it as a way of excusing boarding without a ticket, but it is very much a valid reason for doing so in this instance.

If the TVM is the only available method of purchase at the station, and does not accept cash, then you can buy on board without penalty if you pay using cash, regardless of whether you have other means of payment on you.

I was responding to the question posed in the text – the thread title "TVMs won't accept cash" was not visible on my screen when I was typing. Oops.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Dec 2024 ==

A cynic (and I'm not a cynic) might say that that sounds like using a means of avoiding, if not evading, buying a ticket.

Indeed.

 

[RPI]

In direct answer to the question, then if a card only TVM is the only ticket issuing facility, and it isn't a Northern station where you need a Promise to Pay, then yes you can board and pay cash at the soonest opportunity - you are also not expected to miss an onward connection at an interchange station in order to buy a ticket.

 

[WesternLancer]

A cynic (and I'm not a cynic) might say that that sounds like using a means of avoiding, if not evading, buying a ticket.

There are probably tik tok videos on how to get a supply of the vouchers.

 

[Towers]

In direct answer to the question, then if a card only TVM is the only ticket issuing facility, and it isn't a Northern station where you need a Promise to Pay, then yes you can board and pay cash at the soonest opportunity - you are also not expected to miss an onward connection at an interchange station in order to buy a ticket.

Nor are you required to “go and find the guard”, as some TOCs (Northern?) have attempted to imply in the past. Although of course this is a sensible idea!

 

[Belperpete]

you are also not expected to miss an onward connection at an interchange station in order to buy a ticket.

How much time is reasonable for obtaining a ticket? If you have to be allowed through the barriers to get to a ticket office or TVM, and then find there is a long queue, or someone with a particularly convoluted query ahead of you, you could have problems getting back through the barriers without a ticket. My view is that I only attempt it if there is plenty of time.

I was once advised by Arriva that they would expect me to get off and get a ticket at Shrewsbury in the 10 minutes the train was booked to stop there. My view is that, in view of the distance from the platform to the booking office, and having to be allowed through the barriers, is that is completely unreasonable. If I had half an hour, maybe, but with only 10 minutes I would be at real risk of missing my train.

 

[MarlowDonkey]

if a card only TVM is the only ticket issuing facility,

Suppose there's also a contactless reader and you have in your possession a phone capable of buying and displaying tickets?

If it's OK to wait on board until the Guard/Conductor comes round to check tickets and collect fares or to buy at an interchange or the ultimate destination, is it also OK to buy a ticket on a phone after the train has departed?

 

[WesternLancer]

Suppose there's also a contactless reader and you have in your possession a phone capable of buying and displaying tickets?

but you have no charger with you an only 5% charge left on your phone so you won't be able to show the ticket later on your journey - recipe for some sort of penalty...
They can't search your bags to check if you have a phone and require you to use it.

If it's OK to wait on board until the Guard/Conductor comes round to check tickets and collect fares or to buy at an interchange or the ultimate destination,

is it also OK to buy a ticket on a phone after the train has departed?

no

 

[Haywain]

Suppose there's also a contactless reader and you have in your possession a phone capable of buying and displaying tickets?

What have either of these to do with paying cash?

but you have no charger with you an only 5% charge left on your phone so you won't be able to show the ticket later on your journey - recipe for some sort of penalty...
They can't search your bags to check if you have a phone and require you to use it.

We really don't need yet another thread going down these rabbit holes. This one is about TVMs accepting cash and what to do if they don't, so mobile phones don't come into it.

 

[John R]

Suppose there's also a contactless reader and you have in your possession a phone capable of buying and displaying tickets?

If it's OK to wait on board until the Guard/Conductor comes round to check tickets and collect fares or to buy at an interchange or the ultimate destination, is it also OK to buy a ticket on a phone after the train has departed?

Re the first question, if you want to pay cash, you can pay cash on board, regardless of whether you have another means to pay.

Re the second question, no it isn't. If you want to buy a ticket online you have to do it before you board.

 

[Trainbike46]

Suppose there's also a contactless reader and you have in your possession a phone capable of buying and displaying tickets?

If it's OK to wait on board until the Guard/Conductor comes round to check tickets and collect fares or to buy at an interchange or the ultimate destination, is it also OK to buy a ticket on a phone after the train has departed?

you are allowed to use your chosen payment method. If you wish to pay by cash, you are allowed to do so, whether you have the option of paying by card (or phone) or not

 

[WesternLancer]

What have either of these to do with paying cash?

We really don't need yet another thread going down these rabbit holes. This one is about TVMs accepting cash and what to do if they don't, so mobile phones don't come into it.

Indeed, we probably don't!

 

[Belperpete]

If it's OK to wait on board until the Guard/Conductor comes round to check tickets and collect fares or to buy at an interchange or the ultimate destination, is it also OK to buy a ticket on a phone after the train has departed?

No, because you had the opportunity to buy using that method before you boarded. Likewise it would be unacceptable to say that you didn't buy a ticket because the TVM was only accepting cards, and then attempt to pay by card on board.

As a previous poster noted, you are only permitted to board without buying a ticket if there is no means of buying a ticket for your journey using your chosen payment method. If you can buy the ticket using your chosen payment method, then you should. And it is up to you to make sure that you arrive in sufficient time to do so.

 

[nanstallon]

It is interesting to note that even if you have a credit or debit card on you, and you don't buy a ticket at the (no cash payments) ATM before boarding, you have the right to choose to pay by cash after boarding. I had visions of conductors making you turn out your pockets, to see whether you had a card with which you could have used the TVM. So, I'll make sure that I always have a tenner on me in cash, to avoid these horror tales of TVMs not working and nobody believing you.

 

[SuspectUsual]

It is interesting to note that even if you have a credit or debit card on you, and you don't buy a ticket at the (no cash payments) ATM before boarding, you have the right to choose to pay by cash after boarding. I had visions of conductors making you turn out your pockets, to see whether you had a card with which you could have used the TVM. So, I'll make sure that I always have a tenner on me in cash, to avoid these horror tales of TVMs not working and nobody believing you.

Depends how much your ticket is I suppose. But this does sound a bit like someone hoping not to encounter a guard and thus must travel for free

 

[nanstallon]

Depends how much your ticket is I suppose. But this does sound a bit like someone hoping not to encounter a guard and thus must travel for free

Not me, guv. Any sensible person would go out of his way to find the conductor in order to regularise his position. But it is good to know that you won't then be regarded as a criminal. My worry with TVMs is (a) that they won't work and nobody will believe me and (b) if I've cut it a bit fine and there is someone already at the TVM who can't work out how to use it and my train is already at the platform.

 

[AlterEgo]

There are probably tik tok videos on how to get a supply of the vouchers.

That sort of fare avoidance likely won’t have made it to TikTok yet, where hiding in the toilet is the most intelligent method of “getting free trains”.